Re: Upgrading from pio 868Avi to Blu-ray player

[Xstyle]

Hi guys!

So glad I searched for this as I am in the same boat.
(originally posted in HD-DVD sub-forum: Upgrading from pio 868Avi to HD player )

Pio 868avi dvd player, and AX5ai amp, on a 435xde plasma.

I am VERY happy with it all (tho it is time I had the audio and video ISF calibrated!!)

I definately want to go the HD and/or BD route.

I'm initially thinking of getting a PS3 for blu-ray.

Q1: Is it worth me keeping the DV-868?
Q2: Will the PS3 upscale SD-DVD's same or better than the 868?

I could also be tempted by the best in class Pioneer Blu-Ray player BDP-LX70A... as I do just LOVE Pioneer! Quality Products by far!

Q3: Can the Pio BDP-LX70A be made multi-region (especially for SD? and maybe BD?)
Q4: Same goes for the PS3 (think SD would be easier to do, right?)

I am thinking is it really worth keeping the 868?, as much as I love it, if the (whatever one I get) BD or HD machine does what the 868 does?

Q5: Is I-LINK the best way to get the audio with dvd/amp? I do it at mo with my set-up and I love it. Would a newer HDMI HD-Audio enabled amp be any better, and if so, how much better?

Q6: Would I-LINK still be prefered with the Pio LX70A BD dvd player, over HDMI to the amp (if I had a newer Pio amp!) Just curious... might sell my lot!

Q7: Are analogue outs to amp for the TrueHD sound etc, better than I-Link, which just does upto DTS 1.5mbs, isnn't that right?

Q8: Is it still compressed sound via I-Link, like via optical?

Q9: Could also buy a HD-DVD player, such as a Tosh EP35, or maybe even the Samsung dual format player, BD-UP5000? hmmm...

Q10: Do I need a HDMI switcher thing?? My TV only has one HDMI plug, and that is being used with the 868. ..would need another for the BD / PS3 too...


Ideally, I'd like to get the PS3 now, and then get the dual format Pioneer best-in-class player! ... and a new amp! ...but thats a year away!?

A lot of questions I know, but think this thread is best place for them, rather than starting a new topic for each! All opinions / research / reviews welcomed.

If there is anything I have missed, then please DO let me know!!!!!
As soon as I bought my kit, done the AV set-up in my wall ... I haven't kept upto date (as much) on newer products and technology. If it wasn't for Xmas, and the thought of staying home for a few days to watch high def movies, I'd probably leave it all another 6 months til my birthday!


Thanks!!!
It is an expensive game this ... just don't tell the wife everything...! lol

[kingfats]

Hi Xstyle
As you say,your thnking of getting into Blu-ray i would go for the Ps3 and can definitely recommend it.
Upscaling SD dvd with the Ps3 is fine but i was not exactly blown away by the PQ and it certainly did not come nowhere near my Pioneer 989avi or the Xe1.
I like to have a seperate player for SD and of course it's needed for my R1 collection.

[Xstyle]

Originally Posted by kingfats

Upscaling SD dvd with the Ps3 is fine but i was not exactly blown away by the PQ and it certainly did not come nowhere near my Pioneer 989avi or the Xe1.

I thought you might say that!

so if I keep my 868, and get a PS3 (and maybe even a HD-DVD player)... I will need a HDMI Switcher
.. hmmmm..... I'll need a seperate thread to discuss HDMI switchers now! hehe

So I will run the PS3, Pio-868 via HDMI... and of course I need to allow for 2 more HDMI inputs too, just in case I get SKY-HD, and a HD-DVD player...

[kingfats]

Originally Posted by Xstyle

I thought you might say that!

so if I keep my 868, and get a PS3 (and maybe even a HD-DVD player)... I will need a HDMI Switcher
.. hmmmm..... I'll need a seperate thread to discuss HDMI switchers now! hehe

So I will run the PS3, Pio-868 via HDMI... and of course I need to allow for 2 more HDMI inputs too, just in case I get SKY-HD, and a HD-DVD player...

Hi mate
If you want to enquire about HDMI splitters etc,then it would be best to post in this section.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=123

[welwynnick]

Blimey. I may have a few things to contribute given enough evenings. To set the scene, I have Sony BDPS1, Pio DV989 & Sammy BDP1200 players, Denon AVC-A1, Sony DA7100 & 9000ES amps, and I'm thinking of getting a PS3 to consolidate things.

Pio 868avi dvd player, and AX5ai amp, on a 435xde plasma. I am VERY happy with it all (tho it is time I had the audio and video ISF calibrated!!) I definately want to go the HD and/or BD route. I'm initially thinking of getting a PS3 for blu-ray.
Q1: Is it worth me keeping the DV-868?

If audio is important to you, I would say keep the 868. It's in a rare position of being a good SD audio and video player with both HDMI and i-link, yet it's not worth that much these days. The better BD & HD players will play also DVDs well, but won't be able to touch it with CDs etc.

Q2: Will the PS3 upscale SD-DVD's same or better than the 868?

For picture quality, it's not the upscaling that's important as much as the de-interlacing. The 868 is good here, but it only scales as far as 1080i, which most displays don't process too well. 576p output will often work better. Now the important bit. The PS3 didn't used to upscale DVDs, but now it does. It uses a quite different decoding and processing solution to stand-alone players. It uses SW rather than HW, so it's expensive, but infintely upgradable. Even if the best stand alone DVD and BD players have the edge over the PS3 right now, I would expect the PS3 to redress that balence next year.

I could also be tempted by the best in class Pioneer Blu-Ray player BDP-LX70A... as I do just LOVE Pioneer! Quality Products by far!

In spite of it's critics, I think my Pio is great, and would love a Pio BD player. Problem is you have to sink some cash into a moveable feast that no-one, including you, will want in a year's time. The ugly PS3 will still be going strong, but they key to making the most of it is to have an HDMI V1.1 amp that will accept and process LPCM audio.

Q3: Can the Pio BDP-LX70A be made multi-region (especially for SD? and maybe BD?)

This is very unlikely, as for any BD player. Do you really need a multi-region DVD player?

Q4: Same goes for the PS3 (think SD would be easier to do, right?)

Many people speculate about this, but I don't think you can bank on it.

I am thinking is it really worth keeping the 868?, as much as I love it, if the (whatever one I get) BD or HD machine does what the 868 does?

BD & HD machines CAN play DVDs very well (though not ALL do so - needs lots of research - Pios aren't that great). But remember that if you get a UK BD player that plays region B BDs, it will probably never play NTSC or region 1 DVDs.

Q5: Is I-LINK the best way to get the audio with dvd/amp? I do it at mo with my set-up and I love it. Would a newer HDMI HD-Audio enabled amp be any better, and if so, how much better?

When I compared HDMI, i-link, spdif, toslink and analogue for playings CDs, I was struck by how poor HDMI was. It was clearly the worst of all interfaces, and spdif was far better. Not what the sales spin would have you believe. With the exception of the forthcoming (and very expensive) BDP-LX90, HD players of either colour are very unlikely to have i-Link connection.

Q6: Would I-LINK still be prefered with the Pio LX70A BD dvd player, over HDMI to the amp (if I had a newer Pio amp!) Just curious... might sell my lot!

In my experience, iLink is better than HDMI. It's not a small difference - in time it will simply make you stop playing CDs, it's a bad as that.

Q7: Are analogue outs to amp for the TrueHD sound etc, better than I-Link, which just does up to DTS 1.5mbs, isnn't that right?

Very difficult question, that one. I suspect not, but I'm not sure, and would really like to hear other people's experience here.

Q8: Is it still compressed sound via I-Link, like via optical?

Not quite sure what the question is, but I don't think i-link makes so much difference with DD & DTS sound tracks from DVDs. It's not de-compressed down to PCM, if that's what you're asking. The amp still still does the decoding.

Q9: Could also buy a HD-DVD player, such as a Tosh EP35, or maybe even the Samsung dual format player, BD-UP5000? hmmm...

There are worse ways to spend your money, but I'm not sure that right now is the best time to chose to go dual format. Tings may be chaning quickly over the next few weeks.

Q10: Do I need a HDMI switcher thing?? My TV only has one HDMI plug, and that is being used with the 868. ..would need another for the BD / PS3 too...

This seems to be a key constraint. There's nothing wrong with using a recent, remote controlled HDMI switcher. You don't have to spend a lot of money, they can be programmed into universal remotes so you don't even know they are there. I'd say that was the first issue to get out of your way. The remorte for the PS3 is one other issue, but one that also has a solution.

Ideally, I'd like to get the PS3 now, and then get the dual format Pioneer best-in-class player! ... and a new amp! ...but thats a year away!?

A lot of questions I know, but think this thread is best place for them, rather than starting a new topic for each! All opinions / research / reviews welcomed.

If there is anything I have missed, then please DO let me know!!!!!
As soon as I bought my kit, done the AV set-up in my wall ... I haven't kept upto date (as much) on newer products and technology. If it wasn't for Xmas, and the thought of staying home for a few days to watch high def movies, I'd probably leave it all another 6 months til my birthday!

Thanks!!!
It is an expensive game this ... just don't tell the wife everything...! lol

Yup, PS3 is a good bet right now. It's still early days for HDM, and a PS3 will improve more, and depreciate less, than any stand-alone player. Oh, and it's a networked media player and games console to boot.

HTH, Nick

[MAW]

I'd vote for PS3 too. I-Link, wasn't aware it could carry HD audio, or that any HD players had it, though bandwidth wise it's niot a problem. The LX70 is already out of date, will never be MR for blu ray, in common with all other blu ray players, though this is a surprisingly small issue. The noise of the PS3 is a nuisance, though IIRC your kit is 'in the garage' and I presume most noise and heat goes out the back of your system? PS3s make damn good toasters/fan ovens. MR is your 2nd biggest problem, I would hang on to the 868 myself, the simplest way of doing it. The biggest one is HD audio, realistically only solvable long term by ditching the amp, replace with Denon or Onkyo IMHO. You then wouldn't need a switcher, you could have 3 x HDMI inputs available.

The remote issue is 'unsolved' by the latest firmware BTW, USB dongles no longer work....

[Nic Rhodes]

Excellent post Nick, can't catch you out on that one

[Xstyle]

Originally Posted by Nic Rhodes

Excellent post Nick, can't catch you out on that one

YES FANTASTIC!!
Will have a re-read of that, as some quality info there. THANKS!

Originally Posted by MAW

The biggest one is HD audio, realistically only solvable long term by ditching the amp, replace with Denon or Onkyo IMHO. You then wouldn't need a switcher, you could have 3 x HDMI inputs available.

the amp would have 3 hdmi inputs?

so how would that work?
my solitary hdmi at mo is between plasma and the 868 dvd player.
i would still need to get the ps3 connected, and maybe one or 2 others for future ... are you saying that the amp acts as the switcher??

I am obviously thinking of changing amps too, away from the AX5ai... so I can have the better HD sound formats, but ideal time for that would be when I know what dual format HD/BD player I get, so they compliment each other... (high end Pio would be desirable with a drop in price nicely!), in probably 6 months?? (or maybe sooner!)


Was looking at HDMI switchers here:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showp...41&postcount=9


I could put the £100 or so (depending on which one I get) and put it towards the new amp...?

[MAW]

The amp acts as a switcher, yes. And extracts the HD audio from the HDMI, passes the signal to the XDE. Personally I'd avoid the Pioneers, there are a fair few good reasons why Onkyo are so popular on the forum, one of them being price. You kick off at £400, I think in your case I'd be looking at a 705 or 875 if you have legacy sources to connect as well. It has 4 HDMIs for the future too.

[welwynnick]

Originally Posted by MAW

I'd vote for PS3 too. I-Link, wasn't aware it could carry HD audio, or that any HD players had it, though bandwidth wise it's niot a problem.

The whole point of i-link was that it COULD carry SACD and DVD-A audio digitally, while retaining content protection with Data Transmission Content Protection (like HDCP). It's IEEE 1394, so it's huge bandwidth, 400MHz. Not sure we're going to see much more of it, though.

Originally Posted by MAW

The remote issue is 'unsolved' by the latest firmware BTW, USB dongles no longer work....

Didn't know that; damn. Thnaks for the heads up, though.

Originally Posted by Nic Rhodes

Excellent post Nick, can't catch you out on that one

Phew, wipes sweat off brow....

Nick

[Xstyle]

Update...

I now have a PS3 !!

So now I really do want to get a new amp!
Currently reading up on the forums about Onkyo 875 (or 905!) and Pio VSX-LX70 ...


I haven't had a chance yet to directly compare the PQ for SD-DVD's between the PS3 and the Pio 868 ... (or the sound for that matter). I rarely listen to cd's ... hmmm.... but do on the very odd occasion....

Might it be better if I jointly sell the Pio AX5ai amp, and the DV-868avi player?


Sold some of my DVD's to get them in Blu-ray! ... though still have alot of dvd's that will not be upgraded.

[MAW]

In your room, which I remember quite well, and for a single display, the 875 is enough. You could keep the 868 for DVD, the family would find it easier, ladies mostly seem to have a part of their brain which will not understand games consoles. But if the price was right sell I guess. Stick them in the classifieds, see what happens.

[welwynnick]

Originally Posted by Xstyle

Update...
I now have a PS3 !!
So now I really do want to get a new amp!
Currently reading up on the forums about Onkyo 875 (or 905!) and Pio VSX-LX70 ...

I haven't had a chance yet to directly compare the PQ for SD-DVD's between the PS3 and the Pio 868 ... (or the sound for that matter). I rarely listen to cd's ... hmmm.... but do on the very odd occasion.....

You'll need an amp with an HDMI V1.1 input to get the most of the PS3, but I'm not sure that an Onkyo 875 is the most cost effective way. It's key selling points (and the drivers for demand and hence pricing) are the video processing, duplicating what is already done well by the PS3, and HDMI V1.3 inputs that support bitstream, which the PS3 won't do! I'm sure it's a great amp, but I suspect you may be paying for things that you won't be able to take advantage of.

Very intrested to hear your impressions of SD DVD quality, though.

regards, Nick

[MAW]

The 875 gets an extra HDMI input too, though I agree, the 805 otherwise is enough. I was also thinking of the 875 as an option for other legacy SD material, there are some small Xstyles who might have consoles etc I believe.