[tomiK]

Well, I say really good in the title... but what I mean is good for the money

I'm looking at spending in the region of £60, and it will be mainly for my bedroom hooked to my new samung le32m86bd. I currently have a LG hdmi upscaler player but this was purchased over a year ago, and to be honest the colours on it are dreadful (very muted and orange looking) - this is on all TV's.

So now that technology has moved on, I want something that can give me the best out of my current dvd collection. But I don't want to go down that road of 'dissapointment'.

I am finding it hard to gather reviews lately on hdmi upscaling players, and the ones I do find are a year old. I don't want to spend silly money on players like the denon, because for almost that money I may as well get a HD-DVD player (which is out of my budget anyway - and I already have one in my living room).

Another thing, is there any players that are comparable to the upscaling of the PS3 and toshiba HD-DVD players? because this is my reference point.

thanks

[spooney]

Originally Posted by tomiK

Another thing, is there any players that are comparable to the upscaling of the PS3 and toshiba HD-DVD players? because this is my reference point.

I can't talk about the PS3 but in view of the Toshiba players you should add some serious money to your budget. Still you own a HD ready TV, no budget player's upscaling capability can scope with your TV.
I suggest to get a player in your price range and let the TV handle the upsclaing to its native resolution.

[tomiK]

So something that is a standard component or scart player? If so, which one would you recommend?

[tomiK]

Okay, I'm not too sure if I agree with what you said. I tested a Harmon Kardon player (not mine) via component on my tv, and whilst the sound and colour was brilliant, I found the quality not as clean and as sharp as my LG player. So that makes me more confused.

[spooney]

Sorry for the confusion. I did not mean to suggest not to gor for a HDMI player. My point was don't waste your time on looking for a budget player with 'great' upscaling capabilities.

If component or HDMI works better with your panel is a different story.

I own a Panasonic S-52 which has a brilliant picture both on CRT and LCD.
Please note my main player is a high-end Denon. I do know what a brilliant picture should look like with a budget player
The newer model is the S-53. It has good upscaling capabilities, which gives you the option to play around and it can be made code-free via remote.

[tomiK]

No problem dude, I see where you are coming from now.

I think you are right about the budget players - really is no point. But like you said, I'll take a look at the denon player.

[tomiK]

Okay, I have raised my budget to £130, what player do you think I should go for that amount of money?

[spooney]

Originally Posted by tomiK

Okay, I have raised my budget to £130, what player do you think I should go for that amount of money?

I suggest to go for a Denon

[tomiK]

Okay these are the players I am down to: denon 1740, sony dvp-ns87, samsung dvd-hd870, philips dvp5960, pioneer dv400.

I also noticed that the more expensive players use a 108Mhz/12-bit Video DAC, does this make the overall difference in picture quality?

thanks

[tomiK]

Hi guys atm I'm using a Harmon Kardon DVD22 Player via component, and I must say the picture does look pretty good, would I expect to see much of a difference if I got a denon 1740?

[spooney]

Difficult to tell. I do not know how good your Harman actually is. Maybe there is a huge improvement, maybe it is a small one.

I still own a 6-7 year old Pioneer 525 (one of a few players I own ) and on a CRT it is as good as the Panny S-52.

Do you have the option to take the current player with you and go for a demo to compare it with the Denon?

[Liam @ Prog AV]

I actually really quite liked the Harmon Kardon decks. The problem is with the TV how good is the component input (with A-D and D-A conversion in the line). This I can't comment on.

A good player to look for would be the Oppo IMO. Prob have to be 2nd hand on that budget, but worth it.

[tomiK]

I'm not sure if I could take it with me, but I might be able to get them (being richersounds) to demo something on one of their players.

I've heard good things about the oppo but I can't find them anywhere, it seems over in the states they're only available.

Whilst we're on the subject of the pansonic, how does the Panasonic DVD-S53EB-K compare to the denon? I guess a good comparison would be with your S52.

[spooney]

Originally Posted by tomiK

Whilst we're on the subject of the pansonic, how does the Panasonic DVD-S53EB-K compare to the denon? I guess a good comparison would be with your S52.

The S-52 and S-53 are almost identical. Panasonic has added 1080p upscaling and reduced a few other features to keep the price. Internally are the same electronic circuits. I think the 1940 is certainl better.

Comparing is difficult as I own a 2930. Between this one and the S-52 are lightyears in price and picture quality on a Sanyo Z4.
I went for the S-52 because it is really good and won a lot of reviews over here in the German magazines
I still use it on the CRT in the living room.

I like Denon as they have good built quality and are for sure on the upper end on all price segments.

[Liam @ Prog AV]

Originally Posted by tomiK

I've heard good things about the oppo but I can't find them anywhere, it seems over in the states they're only available.

www.crtprojectors.co.uk

[ruarmani]

I have bought Denon 1740. I have been disappointed a bit. My 5 years old Toshiba SD 3800 Progressive Scan player gives a better picture than Denon. But it could be because I have 3.5 years old CRT Toshiba HD set 32". I connected denon via HDMI - DVI to my tv set and saw no difference in picture quality upscaling to 480p or 1080i. I used to do a lot of film and video editing and I know how a picture should look like. I am not sure how these two player could compare on new 1080p HD sets, but on mine toshiba looked cleaner, less noise, better sound. Denon had more noise, jagged edges, flatter sound. And another problem - I could not find all region hack for 1740. I heard a lot about Oppo lately, I wonder how this player would perform. I think I need to take these units to my friend's house to check on his Sharp Aquos.

[spooney]

Originally Posted by ruarmani

I have bought Denon 1740. I have been disappointed a bit. My 5 years old Toshiba SD 3800 Progressive Scan player gives a better picture than Denon. But it could be because I have 3.5 years old CRT Toshiba HD set 32". I connected denon via HDMI - DVI to my tv set and saw no difference in picture quality upscaling to 480p or 1080i. I used to do a lot of film and video editing and I know how a picture should look like. I am not sure how these two player could compare on new 1080p HD sets, but on mine toshiba looked cleaner, less noise, better sound. Denon had more noise, jagged edges, flatter sound. And another problem - I could not find all region hack for 1740. I heard a lot about Oppo lately, I wonder how this player would perform. I think I need to take these units to my friend's house to check on his Sharp Aquos.

I have never heard of a CRT displaying in HD. Are you sure? Or does it accept HD and then downscales to its native resolution? Double-processing never improves the picture.
On my by-then high-end CRT which is a few years older but despite the lower resolution gives a much better picture than any LCD/Plasma on the market I hardly see a difference between my 8 year old Pioneer 525 and any new player I tried.
Performing the same test on my projector with true native 1280x720 the difference is so noticable even my wife sees the difference instantly.

You need a good mastered DVD as source, a good player and a display device with a native HD resolution (no HD-ready displays) to get a very good picture.

[ruarmani]

Originally Posted by spooney

I have never heard of a CRT displaying in HD. Are you sure? Or does it accept HD and then downscales to its native resolution? Double-processing never improves the picture.
On my by-then high-end CRT which is a few years older but despite the lower resolution gives a much better picture than any LCD/Plasma on the market I hardly see a difference between my 8 year old Pioneer 525 and any new player I tried.
Performing the same test on my projector with true native 1280x720 the difference is so noticable even my wife sees the difference instantly.

You need a good mastered DVD as source, a good player and a display device with a native HD resolution (no HD-ready displays) to get a very good picture.

My set is Toshiba 30HF83, my mistake it is 30". It says nothing in manual, it says it accepts 480i, 480p, 1080i. I think it is more like HD ready. My satellite is HD and it looks beautiful on this set. I think I should not really see the difference as I test both players at 480p and denon at 1080i, but I am a little surprised that Denon is not better. When menus or text are displayed, Denon has more flickering, while Toshiba's image is clean and stable with no flickering at all. I suspect the problem is my old tv set.

I do agree with you that LCD/Plasma are not better good crt, I find black levels are way better. I go to stores quite often and find not much of a difference and don't see the point to buy new set. You have mentioned about projector and this is exactly what I am looking for now and I hope I buy one soon. The only thing that has been stopping me is lamp prices. By the way, what do you think, should I go for 1080p or 1080i/720p would be just enough?

I think I might return denon.....or should I keep it for future? I paid $85, it was on big sale. I might go to the store and try it on new tv sets and see how it looks and if my tv set is at fault.

[ruarmani]

I returned Denon 1740. Before I did that I asked personnel at the store to hook denon to best tv set they had. They hooked it up to Sony Bravia 46" and I noticed the same issues I had at home with my Toshiba. Then noticed that Sony performed the same (I used my own dvd) on BR dvd player, so I asked to switch to Sharp Aquos 46" as I noticed the set had beautiful and clear picture in hd. Denon performed the same as at home, tearing and flickering credits, when in menu had a little flickering as well, I checked some scenes I knew well and I would say, I saw no difference, my old Toshiba performed better. I put the dvd into Sharp Blue Ray player - played better then Denon, it was upconverting to 1080p, but no worse than my old tv and dvd player, I would say just the same. So I came to a conclusion that first of all to get a great picture it has to be a perfect match of a tv / projector and a dvd player and now I wonder if upconversion really make sense and if improved the picture. I wonder how Oppo performs as I hear so many good things about it. Guys at the store said I was too picky and my problem was that I used to do a lot of video editing and see everything and that I should buy most expensive equipment to satisfy myself I don't think so, but I can say now that Denon 1740 is not a good player, it is OK. Interesting, that I read reviews and many of them said something like this: "Spectacular clarity/detail in image" - does this guy know anything about spectacular picture???

[y2k]

Originally Posted by spooney

I have never heard of a CRT displaying in HD. Are you sure?

Samsung do HD crt tv's, I was looking to buy one a few weeks ago but couldn't find any in stock in the U.K.

[spooney]

Originally Posted by ruarmani

The only thing that has been stopping me is lamp prices. By the way, what do you think, should I go for 1080p or 1080i/720p would be just enough?

The difference between 720p and 1080p is not this much. You need a very good mastered source to see a significant difference. Of course the higher resolution is better but the question is: Do you want to spent the money for this relatively small improvement?
Personally I see no point to upgrade to 1080p. The money I would have to drop in does not compare to the improvements.

Originally Posted by ruarmani

Guys at the store said I was too picky and my problem was that I used to do a lot of video editing and see everything and that I should buy most expensive equipment to satisfy myself I don't think so, but I can say now that Denon 1740 is not a good player, it is OK. Interesting, that I read reviews and many of them said something like this: "Spectacular clarity/detail in image" - does this guy know anything about spectacular picture???

No money in the world will give you a flawless movie experience under all circumstances.

The Denon is for sure a good player for its price. It really depends what you expect to see. Maybe you are picky or maybe biased by video editing?
Many people tend to look at flaws instead of enjoying a good experience in total.
I own some quite expensive equipment and if I look close enough I see flaws. Am I happy? Yes, 100%. Could it be better? For sure. Do I care? No.



In your case I would stick to the current equipment. You need a lot of luck to find a satisfying combination of display and player. Why change the current setup?.

[ruarmani]

Thank you Spooney for good response. I do agree with you on difference between 1080p and 720p, I looked at few and didn't see something which would surprise me, the picture was pretty much the same.

I don't think I am too picky, it was just that I saw a difference between these two dvd players. My old Toshiba is not perfect and I can find any kinds of flaws. But I think anybody, at least on this forum, would see the difference between tearing credits and clean credits, or stable image and flickering. I will be watching what Oppo offers and when I buy a projector, I will give a try. I wish I could see Oppo performance somewhere at the store, I am not a big fan of buying stuff from the internet, had some experience, or may be I will go with hddvd or br.

Spooney, I see you own Sanyo Z4? What was the reason you went for LCD and not for DLP. I like DLP technology in general, but people in stores, for some reason, tend to sell you LCD projectors and tell stories about how annoying rainbow effect is. When I was looking at few projectors in the store, I could only see it if I made an effort and moved my eyes quickly from side to side and on fast moving object moving from one side of the screen to another.

[spooney]

Originally Posted by ruarmani

Spooney, I see you own Sanyo Z4? What was the reason you went for LCD and not for DLP.

Hi,

very simple answer: DLPs do not have much flexibility in placing them in the room. They have an offset meaning you either put them heigh up or down low. None of this was an option. LCDs have a lens shift and this gives you great flexibility in positioning.
RBE? I don't know. I never saw it. On the other hand I believe people suffer from it because I suffer from motion sickness when playing a first person shooter.

These days IMHO the discussion LCD or DLP is outdated. LCDs catched up, even long time DLP promoters like Mitsubishi switched to LCD.

[ruarmani]

Hi, I understand. I guess I would go for LCD, for two reasons. One is I would need lens shift as I intend to put projector on the shelf behind, on the same level as the screen. Two - I was in our friend's house today and he has 62 inch rear projection DLP tv set, Toshiba, and I kept noticing rainbow effect all the time, especially when I take my eyes off tv, it felt like it was printed in my eyes for few seconds. And I thought:" I will go for LCD, rainbow effect bothers me too much."

[Liam @ Prog AV]

DLP is still an expensive technology so only the higher priced models start to get lens shift on the spec sheets. And only really super expensive gear gets three chips!!! However just to make it clear there is no reason other than price that DLPs don't all have lens shift. Any projector can (and does) have an "offset". It just so happens that Themescene projectors are DLP and have a huge offset with no lens shift to correct it. This is not a DLP related thing, just something a specific model has and could very easily have been an LCD.

LCD has not caught up though. Dynamic contrast ratio quotes give you noticeable picture artefacts such as shifting black levels and brightness, just to get the same on-screen punch a DLP can do without struggle. Turning all these back off (where you can) and you get rid of the shifting nonsense, but a picture that looks flat compared to DLP. However the LCD would not have cost you as much and lots of them are 1080p for silly money nowadays so they still represent bargain projection.

[ruarmani]

Originally Posted by Liam @ Prog AV

DLP is still an expensive technology so only the higher priced models start to get lens shift on the spec sheets. And only really super expensive gear gets three chips!!! However just to make it clear there is no reason other than price that DLPs don't all have lens shift. Any projector can (and does) have an "offset". It just so happens that Themescene projectors are DLP and have a huge offset with no lens shift to correct it. This is not a DLP related thing, just something a specific model has and could very easily have been an LCD.

LCD has not caught up though. Dynamic contrast ratio quotes give you noticeable picture artefacts such as shifting black levels and brightness, just to get the same on-screen punch a DLP can do without struggle. Turning all these back off (where you can) and you get rid of the shifting nonsense, but a picture that looks flat compared to DLP. However the LCD would not have cost you as much and lots of them are 1080p for silly money nowadays so they still represent bargain projection.

I was thinking and the reason I could see rainbow effect on my friend's tv set could because that his tv was few years old. May be with higher color wheel speed I won't notice rainbow effect as much. Now speeds are 4x; 5x; 6x.

If I want to put a projector on the same level as the screen, would DLP projector with little lens shift work fine? I would ceiling mount it, but my hight is only 7.5' and distance from projector to the screen would be around 4 meters, around 13'. 92" screen would perfectly fit the wall. So I don't have much space.

[Liam @ Prog AV]

Originally Posted by ruarmani

If I want to put a projector on the same level as the screen, would DLP projector with little lens shift work fine? I would ceiling mount it, but my hight is only 7.5' and distance from projector to the screen would be around 4 meters, around 13'. 92" screen would perfectly fit the wall. So I don't have much space.

Some DLPs will fit this. As I say, whether it is LCD or DLP has no bearing on where it can be mounted. It is the choice of lens the manufacturers use, and what that offset is. Spooneys comment has some bearing, as it is more likely that an LCD will have lens-shift should the lens not line up as you want.

So the answer is that for whatever projector you are looking at you will have to work out if it fits on a case-by-case basis. A projector with lens shift will be a lot more likely to fit than one without.

[spooney]

Originally Posted by Liam @ Prog AV

Some DLPs will fit this. As I say, whether it is LCD or DLP has no bearing on where it can be mounted. It is the choice of lens the manufacturers use, and what that offset is. Spooneys comment has some bearing, as it is more likely that an LCD will have lens-shift should the lens not line up as you want.

So the answer is that for whatever projector you are looking at you will have to work out if it fits on a case-by-case basis. A projector with lens shift will be a lot more likely to fit than one without.

In addition to Liam's advice:
E.g. a Mitsubishi HC3000 was my alternative in the DLP arena. Its offset was so huge I would either have to cut a hole into the ceiling or the floor or accept a too small image. For sure an extreme example but I think good to illustrate what we are talking about.

E.g. www.projectorcentral.com has a projector calculator ( http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...ulator-pro.cfm )
You can add your make and model, distance, etc and find out, if your pj fits into the room.

[leckie]

If you budget has went upto £120 I suggest buying a Toshiba HD-EP30 HD-DVD player form play.com.

Never noticed how old this thread was, please disregard.

[spooney]

Originally Posted by leckie

Never noticed how old this thread was, please disregard.

We started last year but restarted a week ago.