[Mastakilla]

Hi all,

This thread is to find the most interesting thing for my parents to do at the moment.

My parents have an rather old HIFI installation with mixed components. Since the CD-Player is broke (hardly plays backups of audio cds anymore, were it used to do that perfectly and cleaning doesnt help anymore), I need some kind of replacement for it...
Now I was thinking that it might be more interesting to buy a dvd-player instead of a new cd-player, since the dvd-player also plays audio cds...

Here is what they currenly have:
1) A denon PMA360 stereo amplifier
2) A broken Akai CD49 CD-Player
3) A stereo set of broken Magnat speakers (perhaps 20 years old already) for the living room (I blew them up like 10 years ago, but they still aint replaced, but they will be soon iu expect. They still work, but dont sound anymore like they sound, since a piece of 2x1cm just flew out when i blew them up)
4) A stereo set of Art Sound build in speakers for the kitchen (price quality, very nice speakers)
5) The cheapest Samsung LCD TV (+-26 inch i think?)

So as you can see, it is pretty mixed... Some components are OK, others are not, some will get replaced soon, some will not...

Atm, the most urgent replacement is the CD-Player. My parents dont like buying HIFI in budget form, so they probably wont go buy one in Aldi... But as you can see, it also is useless for them to buy some uber expensive CD-Player, since the rest of the components will never be able make good use of the extra sound quality...

Although I am thinking of letting them buy a DVD-Player, their main concern is still the playback of audio CDs... Currently they dont feel much need for a dvd-player, but im quite sure they will start using it a bit, once they have it...

So my questions are:
1) Do the current DVD-Players play audio CDs (original and backups) decently enough to replace a CD-Player with a DVD-Player, or is the difference in audio quality still large enough to buy a sepperate CD-Player, and then later buy a sepperate DVD-Player
(Keep in mind that they will never have a set of 100% top of the line, uber expensive components, but that the currently broken components might be replaced with decent hardware some day...)
2) Do you need to have your TV on to control (play, pauze, next, previous) the playback of an audio CD on a DVD-Player?
3) If it is worth to buy a DVD-Player, then should i pay attention to something specific (eg: only DVD-Players of 300 euros or more have decent sound quality, or only DVD-Players with that specific chipset have decent sound quality, etc) or can i just buy about any DVD-Player for this?

For the DVD-Player, I had a price of about 100-150 euro in mind, but I do not know if any of the more expensive models has some extra to offer...

Hope someone can help me with this?

Thanks!

Mastakilla

[Mastakilla]

anyone please?

should this thread perhaps be moved to:
Hi Fi Systems & Separates
?

[evans]

Mastakilla

All the dvd players I have bought play cd's as well, and most are good at it. Will be as good or even better than your older equipment.

To your second question, you dont need your tv to be on to play, fast forward etc. you can do it all via remote. However some dvd players dont have many details showing on the dvd player itself they have them on the menu screen, like playback time, number of songs etc.

Generally the more you pay the better of both DVD and cd audio you will get. If you intent to use it for only general cd play then it depends on the D/A converter , check this out:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc

[contrex]

Not all DVD players are equal in this respect. My Ellion DVX-520C, DVD player, which admittedly I bought in 2003, was touted as playing audio CDs but the facilities are primitive in the extreme. When you put the disc in it immediately starts to play track 1 and all you can do is pause/play, stop, and navigate backwards and forwards with the 'next' and 'previous' buttons on the remote, so if you wanted to hear track 7 for example, you'd have to press 'next' 6 times. It's as primitive as a cheap CD walkman.

[M6TT F]

I have recently bought a Cambridge Audio set up specifically with the intention of redicung the number of compnents I have in the lounge. The DVD89 plays music very well, although I have no CD player to compare it with. Purists will say it will never be as good as a proper 2 channel Amp and cd player set up, but I wasnt trying to acheive that.

I was after a perfectly adequate system which plays CD's well, and can fulfill the AV side of things, and it seems to fit the bill!

[Mastakilla]

Thx for the info!

So can I conclude the following:

1) Sound quality largely differs from player to player, more expensive dvd players will have better DA converters and better sound quality

2) I have to pay attention to the user controls... allthough my parents dont care about fancy displays showing the time, they would probably like to be able to skip to a specific song with having to call me over to translate some silly manual in to a language that parents understand...

so my question now is:
1) how bad is the audio cd sound quality of the cheaper dvd players? (50-100 euro)
is the difference between a cheap dvplayer and a good cd player audible on non-top-of-the-line, but ok, audio system? (assuming that all broken parts get replaced someday)
how does it compare to cheap cd players?

2) Is it any better for medium priced dvd-players? (100-150 euro)
is the difference between a medium priced dvplayer and a good cd player audible on non-top-of-the-line, but ok, audio system? (assuming that all broken parts get replaced someday)
how does it compare to a cheap or medium priced cd player?

3) and the same questions for expensive dvd players... (150+ euro) (which i dont expect my parents will buy)

[CJROSS]

Masta - fire a £100-200 Denon DVD player onto their system.

Many people with good hifi setups use DVD players without any problems.

[Mastakilla]

I have just had a look on the denon website

seems like the 1730 and 1930 are the affordable candidates

is it correct that the 1730 cant output 6 channel DTS sound and the 1930 can? or can the 1730 do it as well with the optical out?

i also couldnt find anything about these players being able to display subtitles...
can they?

[Mastakilla]

Seems like those Denons arent really popular dvd-players, as no one can answer my rather simple questions about them?

[nix]

A simple answer is either a Denon DVD1730 or Cambridge Audio DVD89 would be more than an adequate replacement for what to be blunt, is a pretty mediocre CD player. Given that you've already got a denon amp, I'd probably go with the denon dvd to match it. Whilst you're at it, get them some new speakers! You needn't spend more than £150 to sort that out.

And no, you don't need your TV on at the same time!

PS If your parents want to be really tight, suggest the Toshiba SD360, but it won't be much of an improvement soundwise. But you do get pictures too!

[Mastakilla]

thx for the hint!

but how about my questions about it?

does anyone have an answer to them?

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Mastakilla

For the DVD-Player, I had a price of about 100-150 euro in mind, but I do not know if any of the more expensive models has some extra to offer...

Mastakilla,

If this is for my parents I would get them one of Samsung DVD player. Things that might be more important to them might be bigger front LCD display, buttons and remote with big letter that they have no problem reading. Hopefully getting the same make could simplified the connection and they will have one less remote to learn and keep around the house.

TBH some of these claims of huge differences between CD and DVD players are really overhype and only of concern to fanatics like audiophile.

[nix]

Budget DVD players I find unlistenable for CDs
Middle price, not great, but listenable.
More expensive, get's better with price!

Rough rule of thumb, halve it's price and it's about that level of CD play. Also don't forget that all this varies wildly from make to make, and model to model. This is only a very basic guide!

[wolfgang]

Yes. I have heard of that suggestion many times in the pages of audiophile mags. I have 2 Linn CDPs including the older Karik & 2 DVDP Oppo and the Tag transport. Their prices range from £160-5000. Used to have a first gen Sony DVDP too. To my ears all these DVDPs, including the Oppo for a year now, are more then good enough as a stand alone CDPs. Maybe a bit different but all play tunes very nicely indeed.

Just make sure the SPL you are listening to are similar as possible when comparing. Maybe it is to do with my processor DAC or something else but I have come to realise when it comes to sound, I think the electronics contribute about 10% only of the differences to the final sound we hear when compared the loudspeakers and room acoustics influences.

[chachi]

Audiocom and a few others do perform after-market upgrades for DVD players to allow 2 channel audio quality approaching proper transport-level performance, upgrading the PSU and replacing the diodes and capacitors with high quality ones.

For example for £250ish they mod a Pioneer 575 to provide jaw-dropping two channel quality.

I cannot locate the original forum/threads I had read, but there is a forum someplace where low-level board mods and resoldering/replacing bits in such a fashion are regularly discussed. I almost did replacements for the caps in our 575 (sold on awhile back) but wussed out in the end.

[wolfgang]

There was a guy on the Net who really wanted show off his Oracle CD player with a retail price of £7,699 to his friends it would be so much more superior to a cheapo stock Pioneer DVDP

.

So he asked his friends along for a comparison in his own home using his megabucks system complete with a pair of those fridge size loudspeakers.

So his friends came along to his home with a Pioneer to let him have a listen but they made sure both players had the same playback volume to keep it fair. After a long listening session the man himself agreed he couldn't tell them apart.

[evans]

wolfgang

Nice post, I find alot of people go the route of more expensive is better which is not the case.

Recently i changed the wiring to thicker gauge on my stereo (both speakers and from Amp to equalizer and equalizer to CD player. The thicker wire seems to help carry more of the signal to the speakers.

[wolfgang]

Interesting. What were the length of cables you needed for your set up?

[evans]

well i have a very small room so i dont have the speakers too far apart about only 7 feet. But i change thickness of cable to 12 guage instead of very thin wiring which came with the speakers and also changed to thicker cables at my yamaha av amp. to my equalizer.

[wolfgang]

Just to shows there shouldn't be any magic and mystery in choosing cables.

[evans]

Well i think the thickness of the wire can play a role in better audio, I wouldnt pay over the odds to go for more expensive stuff though, its just propaganda to sell more expensive cables.

I was reading on this forum a very large thread about what actually makes a bigger difference, hardware, speakers. Majority of what I read reckon the speakers make the most difference second amp quality and third cd player but there was stupidly a very spiteful debate from the so-called experts!! Argueing a cdplayer doesnt play much of a role in overall sound.

The search for Listening eutopia just goes on and on.

[Mastakilla]

OK

thx a lot all for the very nice info...

I conclude out of this that for playing audiocds, the cd/dvd player doesnt matter that much
since my parents indeed arent audiofiles, but just would like a reasonably good sound, i wont limit my search to the more expensive types of the well known audio brands.

ill just consider the other criteria and then will post my choices here, hoping someone will tell me if, by accident, that specific model has bad sound or non user friendly handling...

i just spoke with my parents btw, and they decided to replace the broken speakers too...
ill have a look in the speaker section soon to see if i can find something interesting for them

this now are the criteria in order of importance for the dvd player:

1) No BAD sound quality
2) User friendly
3) Price below 300 euro (around 150 euro would be nice)
3) Can play as much media as possible (cd, cdr, cdrw, dvd, dvdr,dvdrw)
4) Can display all kinds of codecs (divx, xvid, dvd, vcd, svcd, 3vix, etc)
4) Can display as much subtitles as possible (srt, sub, sub+idx, etc)
5) (impossible request nowadays, i know, but still) Lives longer then 1 year

notice that i dont pay very much attention to image quality, this is because my parents have a cheap samsung lcd tv which is brand now and i dont expect them to replace it any time soon (larger doesnt fit in closet anyway)
i know nowadays things like hdtv, hdmi and other techniques are breaking through, but it will take a looong time before my parents will use any of that anyway...
so things like a that are a nice extra, but not required at all...

hope someone can point out something interesting for me

THANKS in advance

[Mastakilla]

anyone have some tips perhaps?

[Mastakilla]

well, guess the reactions have stopped there...

perhaps i can try a bit easier question first:

does the denon 1730 play srt subtitles?

finding something like this seems kinda impossible...