[remlap]

Looking around for a decent priced upscalling DVD player to go with my newly bought Sagem 50inch Telly

Or even a DVD Player with ethernet port (pc connectable) and able to do xvid at 720p

Anything around?

[Crustyloafer]

Arcam DV137, very reasonably priced at £1250 and will spank the pants off anything under £2000.

[remlap]

Wow no thanks, thats dearer than my tv set.

[Crustyloafer]

You did ask for a "good" DVD player did you not? Not an average or bog standard one?

[ahaydock]

I have no problems with the Denon 1920 - it seems to be a popular choice. good value for money as well!

Toshiba sd-350 is pretty damn good (but has a few minor niggles) - can be picked up under £60. This is my stop gap solution until HD/Blu ray and upscaled pic quality is superb

[remlap]

anakin373 cant direct us to where I can get that can you?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...881969-4519627

I bought mine from amazon for £64, but they've put the price up to £90 now - have a search around google - u may find it cheaper elsewhere.

[loz]

The Oppo DV971H is an excellent upscaling DVD player.
And unlike something like the Arcam, it doesn't cost a fortune.

OK, it's nearly double the cost of the £90 jobbies on the shelf in Currys, but their upscaling is little more than a gimmic.

Whereas the Oppo is a widely regarded DVD player that has stunning PQ to compliment a large screen set. (though I have personally never tried it with xvid - but it does support it)

see Oppo DV971H FAQ

[kjt2004]

And my vote goes with the Oppo

Have a look at the threads very good sub £200 player

Im very happy with mine

regards

[Nic Rhodes]

If you don't want the Arcam (which is the one talked about here that could upgrade the scaling above what your telly does already) then I question the need for upscaling. The Oppo is a good player if MB is not an issue, used either way. I don't use the scaling on mine. If you want 'the extra HD stuff' the Snazio looks to be more suitable for your needs.

[danjaq]

Originally Posted by anakin373

Toshiba sd-350 is pretty damn good (but has a few minor niggles) - can be picked up under £60. This is my stop gap solution until HD/Blu ray and upscaled pic quality is superb

Hi, I also got this DVD player and will soon have a 42" plasma. Could someone (in layman's terms) explain what upscaling, 720, 1080 etc is all about please.

This might be a simple question to ask you guys, but I have had to learn so much so soon and could do with a little 'ol help please.

Thanks.

[Barzo]

Also consider the Panny S97, if you can get it. I have one, but am going to upgrade to a mid-range Marantz, as I want to improve SACD quality. Panny is for sale in this forums, if anyone is interested.

[Lord Midas]

I've got the good old Samsung DVD-HD950. It upscales 720p and 1080i and i've never had a prob with it. £110 on Play.com.

It r0xx0rz

I think Samsung now have the HD860 which is newer?

[holiver]

Originally Posted by anakin373

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...881969-4519627

I bought mine from amazon for £64, but they've put the price up to £90 now - have a search around google - u may find it cheaper elsewhere.

Pixmania seem to be doing it for under £70 at the moment. Not sure if it comes with a French power cable though. My digital camera bought through them did.

[Nic Rhodes]

Originally Posted by danjaq2004

Hi, I also got this DVD player and will soon have a 42" plasma. Could someone (in layman's terms) explain what upscaling, 720, 1080 etc is all about please.
.

In the days of our old CRT TVs, then different formats could just scanned onto the TV surface, hence we got a picture whether it was from different formats, like PAL and NTSC.

PLasmas, LCDs etc work differently. They have a a matrix of points, x by y that need to be addressed and any signal that needs to shown has to activate all those dots or pixels. This is fixed as opposed to CRT. Each plasma / LCD panel has different resolutions, so my plasma is 1024 x 768, many LCDs are 1366 x 768. There are many variations here.

The two biggest formats for HD are 720p, which is essentially 1280 x 720 and 1080i is 1980 x 1080 but only every other line. If 720p is also the resolution of you display then it displays without any extra work. However most screens will do some extra processing so that 1080i is displayed correctly on your 136 x 768 panel. (It is deinterlaced and down sized).

SD Standard Definition DVD is 720 x 576 (or 480 for 'NTSC'). This will have have to scaled also to fit the plasma / TV. Upscaling DVD take this 720 x 576 (or 480 for 'NTSC') and scale it to fit 720p or 1080i. This is the same resolution as HD but is NOT HD. These things should not be confused. If done well and the screen exactly matches the upscaling to a panel with 720p (or 1080i) resolution then the idea has some merit BUT and this is a BIG BUT, most screens do not represent 720p so it actually does more harm than good as the DVD does the scaling operation and so does display. It is best to do just one scaling operation and to do it in the best place possible. This is why the new Arcam quoted above may well have a technological lead with ABT scaling.

The bottom line is if you buy an upscaling DVD, the upscaling bit is essentially the same as the upscaling bit already in your display, so you are buying a gadget you already have. Best to just buy / use the best one. The simplest method is to sent 576p to you display and let that do the scaling. For MANY operations, this is very sucessful, for those that bother to look. The scaling is most upscaling DVD players is basic at best and even favourites like Oppo really use quite a basic chip.

[danjaq]

Originally Posted by Nic Rhodes

In the days of our old CRT TVs, then different formats could just scanned onto the TV surface, hence we got a picture whether it was from different formats, like PAL and NTSC.

PLasmas, LCDs etc work differently. They have a a matrix of points, x by y that need to be addressed and any signal that needs to shown has to activate all those dots or pixels. This is fixed as opposed to CRT. Each plasma / LCD panel has different resolutions, so my plasma is 1024 x 768, many LCDs are 1366 x 768. There are many variations here.

The two biggest formats for HD are 720p, which is essentially 1280 x 720 and 1080i is 1980 x 1080 but only every other line. If 720p is also the resolution of you display then it displays without any extra work. However most screens will do some extra processing so that 1080i is displayed correctly on your 136 x 768 panel. (It is deinterlaced and down sized).

SD Standard Definition DVD is 720 x 576 (or 480 for 'NTSC'). This will have have to scaled also to fit the plasma / TV. Upscaling DVD take this 720 x 576 (or 480 for 'NTSC') and scale it to fit 720p or 1080i. This is the same resolution as HD but is NOT HD. These things should not be confused. If done well and the screen exactly matches the upscaling to a panel with 720p (or 1080i) resolution then the idea has some merit BUT and this is a BIG BUT, most screens do not represent 720p so it actually does more harm than good as the DVD does the scaling operation and so does display. It is best to do just one scaling operation and to do it in the best place possible. This is why the new Arcam quoted above may well have a technological lead with ABT scaling.

The bottom line is if you buy an upscaling DVD, the upscaling bit is essentially the same as the upscaling bit already in your display, so you are buying a gadget you already have. Best to just buy / use the best one. The simplest method is to sent 576p to you display and let that do the scaling. For MANY operations, this is very sucessful, for those that bother to look. The scaling is most upscaling DVD players is basic at best and even favourites like Oppo really use quite a basic chip.

Thanks, I hate to see what isn't your layman's terms! I am after the Panasonic HT-42PX60, so would it upscale itself?

[square-eyes-baz]

Nic , you obviously know your stuff (unlike me), please,please,please can you help me with this. Im supposed to be getting a Toshiba 360 next week but Im only looking to use it through component (progressive scan?) as im assuming its like its predesessor ,350, in that the hdmi pq was inferior to its component output. Should I keep this view regarding any other alternative players and just leave the hdmi socket on my tv (Sagem 50") to a proper HD player when they come out? No matter how many times I read any threads on this I still cant work it out ,plus also got conflicting advice from a shop , thanks

[Nic Rhodes]

Originally Posted by danjaq2004

Thanks, I hate to see what isn't your layman's terms! I am after the Panasonic HT-42PX60, so would it upscale itself?

That was the laymens version actually it is quite complicated technically but yes the PX60 does upscale already so you do not NEED an upscaling player, it is in the nice to play with category. Personally I think of mine as doing no harm but set most of them to output 480p / 576p for my Panny plasma.

[Nic Rhodes]

No one has seen a 360 player I know yet but I always liked the 350 which you have identified it's strengths and weaknesses. Don't worry about compnent or HDMI. I would use what is most easy to use. They are just two interfaces, one digital and one analogue and both transmit the essentially same component signal. Both are capable of quality, which is better is down to how they have been engineered.

Your plan of component for DVD and HDMI for HD seems fine to me but we will only know when we see a 360. It is easily changed however. You wil be using component cables and HDMI cables so you need both, so you will have lost nothing. Don't wory too much about all this, get you it, set it up and enjoy. The forum can then help if you need to tweak it further. Life is too short not to watch a film or three.

[amardilo]

I have a SD-350E and it looks really good via HDMI (not tested it via component although I hear the picture is better via that connection). Although I had a problem with the tray and it is being returned (The layer change also takes a while but I don't think that is classed as a fault).

I have also ordered the SD-360E to replace it from empire direct for under £70 (inc del) and I know that play.com sells it for £70 too.

Looking forward to testing it out. As long as the picture is as good as my old DVD player I'll be happy. If they fix some of the flaws with the old player I would be over the moon.

Hi,

I'm going to get the Panasonic TH37PX60 next week. As that panel has native 720 resolution, does anyone know if the upscaling in the TV would be better than using a Denon 1920?

I currently have a Pioneer 545 DVD, but that only has RGB scart. The TV comes with a Panny DVD recorder that has Component out, and I'm wondering if I would get a better picture using the Denon.

If the Denon would be a positive move, then I may also use it as a CD spinner and sell my NAD C540.

[Nic Rhodes]

What is the resolution of your panel, 1280 x 720? This is what the Denon will scale to.

[zerolight]

Originally Posted by Nic Rhodes

The bottom line is if you buy an upscaling DVD, the upscaling bit is essentially the same as the upscaling bit already in your display, so you are buying a gadget you already have. Best to just buy / use the best one. The simplest method is to sent 576p to you display and let that do the scaling. For MANY operations, this is very sucessful, for those that bother to look. The scaling is most upscaling DVD players is basic at best and even favourites like Oppo really use quite a basic chip.

I'd have to disagree with you. Having checked out my mates Denon 1920 DVD player feeding the std def signal into his LCD then watching the same source with the Denon upscaling the DVD to 720p, there was a significantly better picture when the DVD player did the scaling rather than the TV. Not slightly better, significantly better. He has a 9830 which is said to have a pretty good scaler, but it appears that none of the LCDs on the market do a very good job of de-interlacing and scaling.

[Nic Rhodes]

we differ then. I am however talking not about one specific situation but many but that is implied in the post anyway. Quite what is wrong with recommending one scaling operation and using the best scaler you have has me confused though, you seem to agree That both the display and the DVD player both have scalers seem correct to me also. Sending 576p to displays as the simplest method also seems alright as well and my experience tells me it is a good place to start and for MANY operations this is very sucessful certainly tallies with my experience and many others here. Personally I would have reservations about driving a 768p panel with another 'scaler' at 720p / 1080i even with the 720 'mode' on some Philips displays but Pixel plus (HD) often mashes signals anyway but if it works for your mate I am happy. Can't quite see what is wrong with anything I have said though .

[PhilNUK]

am considering this Toshiba 360... I currently have a Sony 725 player running scart into my Sony KDLV40.... the picture is still pretty good regardless of the scart input..
Does anyone have the same TV as me and can give me an idea of a good quality upscaler to run into my TV? Got Sky HD being installed at the end of the month and would love to have the whole setup by then...

Does the Xbox 360 upscale?

[ziplex]

Originally Posted by Nic Rhodes

In the days of our old CRT TVs, then different formats could just scanned onto the TV surface, hence we got a picture whether it was from different formats, like PAL and NTSC.

PLasmas, LCDs etc work differently. They have a a matrix of points, x by y that need to be addressed and any signal that needs to shown has to activate all those dots or pixels. This is fixed as opposed to CRT. Each plasma / LCD panel has different resolutions, so my plasma is 1024 x 768, many LCDs are 1366 x 768. There are many variations here.

The two biggest formats for HD are 720p, which is essentially 1280 x 720 and 1080i is 1980 x 1080 but only every other line. If 720p is also the resolution of you display then it displays without any extra work. However most screens will do some extra processing so that 1080i is displayed correctly on your 136 x 768 panel. (It is deinterlaced and down sized).

SD Standard Definition DVD is 720 x 576 (or 480 for 'NTSC'). This will have have to scaled also to fit the plasma / TV. Upscaling DVD take this 720 x 576 (or 480 for 'NTSC') and scale it to fit 720p or 1080i. This is the same resolution as HD but is NOT HD. These things should not be confused. If done well and the screen exactly matches the upscaling to a panel with 720p (or 1080i) resolution then the idea has some merit BUT and this is a BIG BUT, most screens do not represent 720p so it actually does more harm than good as the DVD does the scaling operation and so does display. It is best to do just one scaling operation and to do it in the best place possible. This is why the new Arcam quoted above may well have a technological lead with ABT scaling.

The bottom line is if you buy an upscaling DVD, the upscaling bit is essentially the same as the upscaling bit already in your display, so you are buying a gadget you already have. Best to just buy / use the best one. The simplest method is to sent 576p to you display and let that do the scaling. For MANY operations, this is very sucessful, for those that bother to look. The scaling is most upscaling DVD players is basic at best and even favourites like Oppo really use quite a basic chip.

In my quest to understand this, am I right in saying that if you are considering buying an upscaling dvd player, unless the quality of the scaling chip in the player will outperform the one in the display, you are wasting your time?, also how can the scaler in the dvd player be given presidence over the display's? or can't it? and why does the picture quality generally appear better and in some cases significantly better when using an Oppo deck/DVI compared to a Toshiba deck/component? What i've read makes sense, or is starting to, but it somehow doesn't work out that way.

[Nic Rhodes]

It is quite simple really, just use the best scaling you have access to. Normally that is a single scaling operation,where it happens is all down to the kit engineering and specifications. 720p is much easier than 768p to get right on a display. If that is an Oppo fine, if it is a DVDO VP30 fine. It doesn't really matter where or how it is done, so long as it is done. There are a variety of different qualities of scaling around but the majority in DVD players and displays are broadly comparable. There is a jump however when yo start looking at what the latest video processors are now giving (DVDO / Lumagen etc). The trick is to drive the display at it's native resolution, with as few scaling operations with the best scaler available. My Oppo gives a better image when outputting 576p to a Key Digital and DVDO video processor than using the built in scaling. It looks good with many things however for two reasons. A great MPEG decoder and good deinterlacing. These two things are different from scaling. The new Arcam however uses ABT scaling (DVDO) and this has the potential to be better again at scaling (as does the top Denon). The ABT scaling is very good, as are example from Crystalio and the yummy Lumagens. It is all down to the engineering.

[ziplex]

Thanks Nic, the mist is starting to clear now........................

[loz]

Originally Posted by Nic Rhodes

It is all down to the engineering.

Which normally end up as "it is all down to the price".

The problem is that folks ask "should I buy an upscaling DVD player" and typically refer to one that cost around £80, which is then met with a reply that a £2000 DVD player or external scaler with do a better job. Well I should hope so

Is the bottom line that nothing in that price range is going to do a good job of scaling (as in good being better than the TV's own scaler), and you might as not well bother?