[Sniper]

When using the analog stereo out on a dvd-player are all the 5.1 channels mixed into the fronts?

Anyone doing this with a pair for decent floor standers (let's say MA RS6)? Verdict?

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by Sniper

When using the analog stereo out on a dvd-player are all the 5.1 channels mixed into the fronts?

Anyone doing this with a pair for decent floor standers (let's say MA RS6)? Verdict?

Sniper depends on a couple of things :

DVD-V player should be set to downmix on, and PCM output. Then if you are listening to a DD 5.1 soundtrack or DTS 5.1 track, then yes all the 5.1 channels will be downmixed to stereo. You call them Fronts but they turn into stereo outputs, so use those connection on your DVD player if it has both 5.1 (fronts) and stereo L&R outputs.

I have always used this scenario from my DVD player, sent towards a stereo amp and speakers, I currently use a 2.1 setup off my Primare map, ie standmounts off speaker posts & active sub off pre-outs, the results for DVD-V movies is quite stunning, sub bass is excellent and I find I can hear dialogue no problem.

Pleae note that the processor quality in either the DVD player or an offboard DAC you send to will determine SQ of the downmix by a fair margin.

[Sniper]

so let me see if i understood anything...

If i get a decent dvd-player with bass managment, i should use the FR & FL outputs from the multichannel out - setting all spkrs off (except fronts!). Right?

I know this is down to personal taste & perception - but do you feel you miss a lot from the surround sound?

EDIT: oh and can you tell me why PCM? What's the difference from MPEG?

[Ultra2man]

If you use the analogue stereo out put of yhe dvd player ( not the fronts on the 5.1 analogue out ) then the player should downmix the surround sound automatacally. No need to go onto set ups.
I,m pretty sure that if you intend to use a sub aswell that you would connect the .1 analogue output on the player direct to the sub.
I'm assuming that you are only using a stereo amp.
Sorry also assuming that your DVD player has 5.1 analogue outs aswell.

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by Sniper

so let me see if i understood anything...

If i get a decent dvd-player with bass managment, i should use the FR & FL outputs from the multichannel out - setting all spkrs off (except fronts!). Right?

I know this is down to personal taste & perception - but do you feel you miss a lot from the surround sound?

EDIT: oh and can you tell me why PCM? What's the difference from MPEG?

If you only plan to use stereo, then use the L&R stereo outputs, most DVD players have 5.1 (incl fronts) and stereo outs. I would then route said signal to a stereo amplifier, then you can use a sub off either speakers binding posts (hi-level) or off pre-outs (low-level).

If you are intending to run this off a 5.1 AV amp, other dudes can explain better than I what to do, as stereo is my bag. For example I happily lump all channels together from my stereo outputs, then get stereo from 2 speakers + sub from that downmix, in effect a 2.1 mix. You would get a 2.0 downmix but with plenty of bass from the RS6s.

What is your kit, DVD player and intended stereo use ?

[Sniper]

I still havent' got the kit - but was going around to see stuff, and happened to hear the RS6 - WOW. So was tempted in blowing all my speaker budget on them. The sound was so good (not to use other extrvagant adjectives). Was also considering 4.0, with 2 RS6 for fronts, 2 MA Silver in-ceiling (room layout demands in-celing rears - sort of).

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by Sniper

I still havent' got the kit - but was going around to see stuff, and happened to hear the RS6 - WOW. So was tempted in blowing all my speaker budget on them. The sound was so good (not to use other extrvagant adjectives). Was also considering 4.0, with 2 RS6 for fronts, 2 MA Silver in-ceiling (room layout demands in-celing rears - sort of).

Excellent Sniper there may be hope yet to pull you back from the dark side of 5.1. You will have noticed the SQ you get from spending all your monies on a stereo pair of speakers, this goes for amplification too, ie get a decent stereo amp, a nice DVD player and settle back and enjoy stereo from your system, you can then downmix all 5.1 stuff via this kit, you can tweak the DVd player by adding a DAC, but all in all you will have a stereo system that is highly capable of letting you hear 5.1 soundtracks via your stereo setup, I have heard lots of 5.1 rigs and good they sounded, but the best decision I ever made was keeping my DVD use via a stereo amp and speakers, have never regretted it. Unlike many dudes I see who opted for 5.1 systems and slowly realised hwo much stereo (CD, TT, Radio, TV, PC etc) use they actually have.

Anyway here is a recent thread from the Int. Rev/amp section :

How to have a Stereo/AV setup?

Get thyself onto the Hifi Forum here (home of all things stereo) and do a search on "Downmix", also the sticky about DACs is worth reading if stereo and DVD use are combined. Start reading threads on these issues before plumping for a 5.1 system.

HTHs

[Sniper]

Thanks - a lot of stuff i'll be reading about.

Can I ask one more thing - what's with the PCM settings on most DVD players. I've see the following settings on my bothers Pioneer player: DD to PCM conversion, 96khz PCM to 48khz down-conversion !! Any quick answer to what's that about! I get the impression PCM is better, but depends on amp right?

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by Sniper

Can I ask one more thing - what's with the PCM settings on most DVD players. I've see the following settings on my bothers Pioneer player: DD to PCM conversion, 96khz PCM to 48khz down-conversion !! Any quick answer to what's that about! I get the impression PCM is better, but depends on amp right?

Without knowing the models your bro has dude, I would assume that has to do with 96Khz content from DVD-A being down-converted to 48Khz for digital outputs (ie standard DVD-V rate), this has to do with the copyright protection. DVD-V use is all 48khz anyway. All I would suggest in stereo based system is that :

Downsample or Downmix is ON
Output Type is set to PCM rather than bitstream or DTS.

Here is the technical blurb on PCM Downsampling (Downmix) & PCM output (Digitally) from my SD-9500 :


PCM Down Sampling DVD-V DVD-A
Make this selection only when you use your audio
equipment (e.g. receiver) connecting to the DVD
player via the BITSTREAM/PCM OUT AUDIO
DIGITAL output jack.
According to performance of your connected receiver,
select a sound processing option for playback of a
disc that contains high frequency signals (sampling
frequency 96 kHz or 88.2 kHz).
Off: Select when your connected receiver conforms
to high frequency signals of 88.2 kHz or higher.
The DVD player outputs these signals in a disc
as they are.
On: Select when your connected receiver does not
conform to high frequency signals of 88.2 kHz or
higher.
The DVD player outputs these signals in a disc
depressing the frequencies to 48 kHz or 44.1
kHz.
Notes
• Regardless of this setting, the DVD player outputs high
frequency signals in a copyright protected disc,
depressing to 48 kHz or 44.1 kHz; and outputs those of
176.4 kHz or 192 kHz in a disc with no copyright
protection, depressing to 88.2 kHz or 96 kHz.
• If you select “Off” while your connected receiver does
not conform to high frequency signals of 88.2 kHz or
higher, you cannot hear output sound of those signals.

Audio Out Select DVD-V VCD DVD-A CD
Select the output sound format corresponding to your
system connection.
For details of sound recording systems, see 43 .
When “Bitstream” or “PCM” is selected, the Mega
resolution parallel DAC* system activates.
Bitstream: Select when connected to an amplifier
equipped with a Dolby Digital, DTS,
MPEG1 or MPEG2 decoder. 21 22
The DVD player outputs digital audio
information in the bitstream format
when you play a DVD video disc
recorded on the Dolby Digital, DTS,
MPEG1 or MPEG2 recording system.
Analog 6ch: Select when connected to an AV
amplifier equipped with 5.1ch audio
inputs. 23
The next screen will detail the
appropriate settings.
PCM: Select when connected to a 2 channel
digital stereo amplifier. 23
The DVD player outputs sounds in the
PCM 2ch format when you play a DVD
video disc recorded on the Dolby
Digital, MPEG1 or MPEG2 recording
system.
Note
When you make a connection to a TV, or Dolby Pro
Logic or stereo system via the analog audio jacks, select
“Bitstream” or “PCM.”
*Mega resolution parallel DAC:
When playing 2 channel sound, the DVD player uses
the built-in 6 D/A converters, assigning 3 to each
channel and converts signals in parallel. This
equalization method has ameliorated performance of
the audio processor.

[Sniper]

Originally Posted by CJROSS

PCM Down Sampling DVD-V DVD-A
Make this selection only when you use your audio
equipment (e.g. receiver) connecting to the DVD
player via the BITSTREAM/PCM OUT AUDIO
DIGITAL output jack.

So the PCM options only effect the digital output? not analog? I was under the impression it effected analog, as you mentiond to set it to PCM if using a stereo amp!

[Kilian]

If I may chip in here and correct me if necessary.

Without getting into the technical details, in simple terms, DD, DTS and mpeg are different ways of encoding and compressing audio data (mpeg also encodes video).

PCM (pulse code modulation) is a way to digitise analogue waveform. In the context of DVD player output, bitstream usually means the original compressed and encoded data and PCM the data after decoding.

Therefore, as a downmix, the data needs to be decoded and uncompressed by the DVD player and output as PCM.

DVD Video also supports uncompressed PCM audio. The audio doesn't have to be compressed. But uncompressed audio takes a lot more space.

I've always wondered how CJRoss hooks up 2.1. Thanks for the info!

[Sniper]

PCM is what's used on CD audio right?!

But wouldn't all the MPEG/PCM releated settings on a DVD player effect how the data is output digitally - it has nothing to do with the stereo analog out, or the FR/FL channels from the multi-channel output. Right?

[Kilian]

Yep, PCM applies to CD Audio and the digital out from the DVD player.

The exact settings depends somewhat on the model. In some, you can turn off the digital out completely. In some, you set the audio to downmix and can individually set the digital out.

Basically, setting audio to downmix would in general downmix both digital and analogue outputs and would contain 5.1 from DVD sources.

But some players can only downmix DD but not DTS to PCM.

And for multi-channel music it may not be possible to be downmixed. Someone elsewhere did an expt. on 5.1 channel SACD playback. The stereo analogue outs have identical outputs to the FR and FL multi-channel analogue outs, as shown graphically on a computer. So you might want to find a DVD with suitable multi-channel tracks for testing.

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by Kilian

I've always wondered how CJRoss hooks up 2.1. Thanks for the info!

Ive always "downmixed" Kilian previously from my old Pio 717 towards a TAG DAC, PCM output, then connected to amp like a CDP. Now do so with the Toshiba XLR balanced into Primare, which in turn has an active sub run off its pre-outs (low level volume controlled - this could easily be high level) and standmounts. Its a very simple premise, but the effects the sub gives to DVD films is astonishing, centre vocal speech is fine through the stereo speakers.

Great for films, without hobbling the stereo aspect (my main concern).

HTHs

[Kilian]

Thanks again CJRoss. The FR & FL stereo hookup is straight forward and I've figured that out; it's the sub hookup that I wasn't sure about. I didn't realise you can hook up the stereo amp R/L pre-outs to the sub.

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by Kilian

Thanks again CJRoss. The FR & FL stereo hookup is straight forward and I've figured that out; it's the sub hookup that I wasn't sure about. I didn't realise you can hook up the stereo amp R/L pre-outs to the sub.

Yep Low Level L&R on a sub with such connections from L&R Pre-outs (just like using a biamp setup). Pre-out connections are volume controlled from main volume pot.

You can also connect from the amps binding posts in tandem with your speaker connections. Ie high level.

Can be done both ways. HTHs.