[samjet]

sorry if this has been covered before

what exactly is the situation?

having recently bought a dvd recorder (panny) with multi region from richer sounds i now find that panny uk want nothing to do with said item

but more to the point - today john lewis told me (ref a price match) that multi region players are ILLEGAL in the uk

your thoughts much appreciated

i should mention that earlier this year i bought a harman kardon dvd player from sevenoaks hifi who supplied details to make said player multi region - no problems mentioned - and i see they also sell multi region players on their web site

[Goooner]

As far as I know multi-region players are perfectly legal, whether the studios would like it otherwise is another matter entirely.

Panasonic probably don't want anything to do with it because it's been modded, so invalidated the warranty. If you buy pre-modded your warranty is covered by the people you bought it from.

[sy278]

Originally Posted by samjet

but more to the point - today john lewis told me (ref a price match) that multi region players are ILLEGAL in the uk

Sounds like the salesperson has been using scare tactics to try and get the sale

[PJTX100]

Sounds like the sales person has had a lobotomy...PJ

[Nic Rhodes]

I remember the days when some sevenoaks branching would not allow you into the shop with R1 discs unless the police came!! (true)

[jwramsay]

My mate works in an authorised Pioneer repair centre and has been told not to touch players that are multi region, not under the Pioneer warranty at least.

Nice was of copping out of your obligations me thinks.

Also, can't be illegal, not a matter of law!

[David Mackenzie]

Originally Posted by samjet

but more to the point - today john lewis told me (ref a price match) that multi region players are ILLEGAL in the uk

Lies!

Multi region players are NOT illegal.

Importing a film that is not yet classified in the UK and then selling it in a UK store is a criminal offense under the Video Recordings Act. This is probably what's confused them.

That's not as funny as the time when a GAME employee told me that NTSC compatible TVs were against the law.

[gandley]

I think you will find there is more to it than that. There is some ruling that stops manufactures from releasing DVD players that are multiregion direct to to retail (the MR is normaly applied by the retailer). Why else would there be an aftermarket for mutiregion coding hacks if it was totaly legal for a manufacturer to release a multiregion machine. Region enforcment is part off the dvd spec which manufactures must adhere to to gain there license, Afterall they pay a royalty to carry the DVD logo

From what i have learnt from Denon it is up to there discreation if they touch a machine that has had a region hack done (even though they provide the hack out the back door via there reps, but denon are not permitted to release the machines prehacked) . They are in there right to refuse to touch the machine if the hack was applied.
Region encoding could be handled with much more force if the need arose. Instead were are going to more than likly pay with the next generation
because If you think that is bad wait until we go hi-def DVD. thanks to new copyright measures of blueray, our blueray player will need to be connected to the phone line and if it detects that a multiregion hack or any other mod has been done a nice bit off code will be sent to render the machine useless. THX sony.....

I think its a bit like police jammers, legal to own- illegal to use.

[samjet]

thanks for the replies

seems to be a grey area - any idea where to look to get the facts regarding said legal/illegal status??

as has been said there must be restrictions otherwise manufacturers would simply just sell multi region players

[wolfgang]

IMO 99% of shop assistances are not experts and you can take whatever these say as noise. Further more they have only one job and that is to convince you to buy from them before you have a chance walk out to another shop. If your player broke return it to the shop you bought it from and what the salesman in JL matters not.

There is no point asking since as far as I can find there is still no worldwide legal agreement on this issue. Only one country film distributors wanted this regional codings. The rest of the consumers all over the world are not interested and as are other countries film distributors. More powerful then any courts is the money in your pocket. Buy what you think is better for our own requiremments. In between hardware manufacturers will play along as long as they themselves get to sale many more players that you really wanted.

[richard plumb]

common sense would be to choose a player that can be hacked with a keypad code or firmware upgrade, and make sure you can return it to factory condition before returning it.

it is odd though, as although manufacturers must adhere to the rules in order to get a DVD logo etc, they are tacitly supporting MR by making it so easy to make multiregion - 4 digit remote keypress?

They know consumers want it, but they can't deliver it - directly at least.


Anyway, when Bluray etc come down the line, say bye bye to cheap richer sounds MR out of the box. At least for some time.

[samjet]

thanks wolfgang

i'm not worried myself and am happy to have a modified/hacked player

however, i am concerned about the 'illegal' comment made by john lewis and if what they say is a lie that i am going to take them to task - hence my request for 'legal' or otherwise status

thanks everybody

[pjclark1]

another double, the server problems are becoming painful

[pjclark1]

It's not a grey area at all.
Shops/traders in the EU are not allowed to sell equipment that can play anything except r2.
Shops/traders in the EU are only allowed to sell r2 DVDs.
There is no room for misunderstanding in those laws.

What a private person does is an entirely different matter, and not covered by EU trading laws.

[Andy Leitch]

Maybe a remote hacked player is not illegal but a chipped machine certainly would be.

If a chipped Xbox is considered to contravene Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), then a chipped DVD player can hardly be treated any different.
The DCMA prohibits the manufacture and distribution of products or services that circumvent technological protection measures designed to prevent unauthorised access to and copying of copyrighted materials.

After all a mod chip is a mod chip regardless of the machine it's fitted to.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09...hipper_jailed/

[Cable Monkey]

Originally Posted by pjclark1

It's not a grey area at all.
Shops/traders in the EU are not allowed to sell equipment that can play anything except r2.
Shops/traders in the EU are only allowed to sell r2 DVDs.
There is no room for misunderstanding in those laws.

What a private person does is an entirely different matter, and not covered by EU trading laws.

They are not laws. They are the rules as issued by the DVD forum members (including all the big players in the media and manufacturers) and are enforced by threats of legal action and denial of right to sell goods at retail level. These were successfully challenged in New Zealand where goods are still sold as region 4 but DVD player buyers are entitled to ask for a region free model if they wish. Many retailers are happy to have region coding because it reduces purchases from areas where goods are cheaper. In other words it maintains prices at levels 'appropriate' to the region. Read into that what you wish...

[gandley]

its easier just to say MR goes againt the licence agreement of the DVD forum. However by doing that you as a consumer forfeit your rights under any warranty agreement. Denon etc can sell machines that can be hacked because its the same machine as other region counterparts in all but name and power supply. They know deep down what we want so go along with it on the SLY. However there are those in power that are not happy with this. but under present laws would be a minefield to fully enforce.

Thats why the next generation will be much much more harder to hack, although the blueray forum have not fully decided if region encoding will be fully enforced with DRM controls, at present it is but not sure if this will stay at launch.

IMHO they are going to have a hard sell with the next generation. I would imagine that mass market have replaced their VHS tapes with DVD versions of their favourite films. And they were happy with VHS for years.

I can't see them willing to do it all over again so soon, especially if the studios make the customers jump through more hoops than they do with DVD. I'd love to see a side-by-side test of a decently upscaled DVD compared to HD source material. I would imagine that most people would see enough of a difference between the two on TV sets below 42" at a typical viewing distance.

I reckon that HD-Recorders will drive adoption of either of the two formats, rather than pre-recorded media, though of course this again depends on how strict they are on recording. I only see much of a market for new films and the usual cash cows.

- Steve

[expat]

MR seems to be handled quite differently from country to country, even within the EU. In Germany there are virtually no MR players on the market, either at shops or via Internet vendors. There was a good selection up until a year or so ago; apparently some powers that be applied sufficient pressure on the retailers to withdraw MR from the market.

A real pain in the *** when you want to upgrade your player...