[Avi]

Originally Posted by MI55ION

If you're simply bitstreaming to the Susano, why not get the 93?

You'd have more funds for the headphone set, or an uber HDMI cable perhaps?

Or if the Susano supports MC PQLS perhaps investigate a Pioneer player with MC PQLS support that may be beneficial with LPCM source material via HDMI.

Avi

[MeanDorris]

Originally Posted by IWC Dopplel

I was able to try a 95 at home in comparison to my Denon 3800, I only tried analogue stereo out as my current set up, Dac Magic with LB54 Power supply (very low end compared to my cinema system and for 2 channel this set up has held it's own against a number of £2k+ DAC's so far from a poor set up and easy comparison) and 5.1 out into my Naim AV2 processor

I still preferred the DAC Magic, but I didnt need to even compare to the two channel out of the Denon, it was clearly better than the Denon for stereo. Sounded very promising for 5.1 out. We set up all levels and the same bass crossover and db levelled between the 3800 and 95.

We compared with the same leads and disc and went A-B a number of times. They were very different, the 95 sounding much leaner and thinner in comparison. The 3800 had to my ears better steering, a weightier and more dynamic presentation and more tonal colour. Resolution I also felt was better with the Denon. For me no comparison

All three who A-B'd preferred the 3800. My 3800 is still firmly placed in my rack

I would still love to listen to a Marantz UD9004 .....

The software update via wifi worked flawlessly and it's a nice machine, plus it's 3D for those who are interested. HD analogue out was however a little disappointing in my system.

I was the 3rd of the three, and as IWC has stated, I too definitely preferred the MC Analogues on the 3800 on his system using the demo clip we used.

However, IWC's system is far from your typical home cinema type set up and very geared towards hifi and the musical performance side of things, the system sounds fantastic for the more mellow, raw and acoustic type material that he mainly listens too, but in my opinion not to my taste for more rock and pop orientated tunes (I think Vipers would probably agree with me?).

The test clip we used was the opening scene of Closer on BD which utilizes a Damian Rice song. It was immediately clear that the 95 sounded very different to the 3800 and also very different to the sounds we were accustomed to hearing from IWC's gear. Keeping the 3800 was definitely the right decision for IWC.

We did not however, compare any further, no more bombastic type soundtracks or action scenes etc, this may or may not have yielded other opinions.

Interestingly, the comparison using the dedicated stereo outputs (we were unable to use these for the MC due to the lack of give in the MC cable) compared to the 3800 in the DAC Magic was less of an obvious difference.

Originally Posted by IWC Dopplel

In my system the 95 analogue out 5.1 was a little clinical, thin and lacking body in the midrange, voices sounded weaker than with the 3800. Also a little 'hollow' and unrealistic.

A quite noticeable difference (accepting the Oppo was new)

Noticeable difference yes, but I would not have described the sound as thin and lacking body. I found the 3800 more analytical and open, and the Oppo somewhat warmer.

Originally Posted by bumtious

No secret that I did not like the 83 sound wise. While I did not have a 83 the compare against the 95 the areas where the 83 were poor are much improved with the 95. But still a fair distance away from my Denon 3800.

That's both picture and sound via HDMI. Steering, fine detail and soundstage being the main differences here. I prefer the image also from the 3800. More solid and less chroma noise.

Still waiting to sit down with you for that blind testing Bumtious

The gernal consensus between the 3 of us was that the PQ was not compromised on the Oppo.

Originally Posted by bumtious

Onto analogue. I'm firmly in the camp that you can't do it all from one box and nothing with the 95 changes that for me. Didn't bother testing the analogue for multichannel audio as HDMI from the Denon is my reference.

Reason is that CD via the stereo outputs, I feel the same as IWC Dopplel, it's thin compared to the 3800

Just to clarify, that is not what IWC said, he was referring to multi channel not the dedicated stereo outs, in fact what he said was "I didnt need to even compare to the two channel out of the Denon, it was clearly better than the Denon for stereo."

Originally Posted by JonStatt

It's funny, but the last thing I would use to describe the sound of the 95 is thin. It is anything but. In fact for my tastes it is just bordering on the opposite.

It just goes to show how much of this is personal and of course relates to the rest of the equipment in the rack.

Spot on

Originally Posted by IWC Dopplel

Not to labour the 3800 but one thing does surprise me is disc playing and the seeming need for updates ?

I bought my 3800 in 2008, I have never updated the software as yet. I have played some 700 hours of film via the 3800, every Bluray I have has played first time. Yep it's slow, but it works every time, with analogue out I have NO lipsync issues.

You wouldn't have had that kind of experience if you had the A1UD

There will have been some titles I'm sure that have given most BD players problems, but not that many, and you have probably just not tried them (may be they were mostly animation (private joke))

Let's not forgot that the Oppo is a 3D player, does SACD, DVD-A, Network Streaming, Playback from External Media and has dual HDMI outs - none of which can be said for the 3800, may not be an issue for some put possibly for others, where is Denon's universal, 3D, streaming, dual HDMI player? (EDIT, OK, the current Denon range comes close)

Let's also not forget that the three of us could not consistently distinguish between the analgoue performance of the 4K A1UD and the £150 Sony S350 in the blu-ray player shootout we did a year or so ago (Sorry guys )

[MeanDorris]

Originally Posted by MI55ION

If you're simply bitstreaming to the Susano, why not get the 93?

You'd have more funds for the headphone set, or an uber HDMI cable perhaps?

LOL! Yeah, I tried to convince him on this one, but Vipers will be Vipers

[Avi]

Originally Posted by MeanDorris

Let's also not forget that the three of us could not consistently distinguish between the analgoue performance of the 4K A1UD and the £150 Sony S350 in the blu-ray player shootout we did a year or so ago (Sorry guys )

I often wonder if we could only choose using our eyes and ears without knowing about the product what we would choose. Pride of ownership can be a powerful influence.

Avi

[MI55ION]

Originally Posted by Avi

Or if the Susano supports MC PQLS perhaps investigate a Pioneer player with MC PQLS support that may be beneficial with LPCM source material via HDMI.

Avi

If that's their fancy way of clock locking the DAC to Source, I'd say it's worth a serious look. Mmm, in fact it's given me an idea...

[MeanDorris]

Originally Posted by Avi

Or if the Susano supports MC PQLS perhaps investigate a Pioneer player with MC PQLS support that may be beneficial with LPCM source material via HDMI.

Avi

I believe the Susano is stereo PQLS and not MC. EDIT, and not over HDMI...

[Welwynnick]

Originally Posted by Avi

Or if the Susano supports MC PQLS perhaps investigate a Pioneer player with MC PQLS support that may be beneficial with LPCM source material via HDMI.
Avi

I'm not sure that the susano even does two channel PQLS over HDMI. I think you're dsupposed to use the ilink input for that, which is probably a better bet.

Its definitely not MC PQLS.

Nick

[Avi]

Originally Posted by MeanDorris

I believe the Susano is stereo PQLS and not MC. EDIT, and not over HDMI...

Originally Posted by Welwynnick

I'm not sure that the susano even does two channel PQLS over HDMI. I think you're dsupposed to use the ilink input for that, which is probably a better bet.

Its definitely not MC PQLS.

Nick

I'm not familiar with Pio receivers so bow to your superior knowledge. I know some of their Blu-ray players offer either 2 channel and/or MC PQLS over HDMI but wasn't sure about the Susano.

Avi

[IWC Dopplel]

Interesting that to my ears the 95 sounded leaner, less weighty and a little 'thin' in the midband.

I also do think there is a need for calibrating sound, I just wish it was measurable...

Easy with pictures. However with sound many systems deliver an unrealistic bright and 'lean' sound that lacks real body and dynamics and sounds nothing like a live insrument to my ears

[IWC Dopplel]

Originally Posted by MeanDorris

There will have been some titles I'm sure that have given most BD players problems, but not that many, and you have probably just not tried them (may be they were mostly animation (private joke))

Let's not forgot that the Oppo is a 3D player, does SACD, DVD-A, Network Streaming, Playback from External Media and has dual HDMI outs - none of which can be said for the 3800, may not be an issue for some put possibly for others, where is Denon's universal, 3D, streaming, dual HDMI player?

I do agree my 3800 is fed on more traditional films, I wonder if 3D and animation will be where this goes.

For those who want 3D, great 2D picture, good 2 channel and a fair crack at 5.1, there are very few contenders. Not to mention the super limited catalogue of SACD recordings

[MeanDorris]

Originally Posted by IWC Dopplel

Interesting that to my ears the 95 sounded leaner, less weighty and a little 'thin' in the midband.

Yeah, your ears are probably better than mine in fairness (that was sincerity rather than facetiousness BTW) but we all hear as we hear and describe how we describe...

[MI55ION]

For anyone interested a superb explanation here on PQLS from our resident jitter guru Nick:

Is PQLS worth it ?

[JonStatt]

To add, for SACD/DVD-A/BD the Oppo 95 compared to

1) Lexicon RT-10
The RT-10 has what I call a sweet sound. It is very pleasing to listen to. Neutral and open, but can sound a bit restrained and lacking in dynamics. It is never tiring to listen to The 95 is certainly not restrained or lacking in dynamics, but it is a bit warmer. It is not as "sweet" but voices are pushed forward closer to the listener and the separation/steering is considerably enhanced. Everything is there, and so you don't feel anything is missing, but because it is slightly warmer, it doesn't always feel quiet as "open"

2) Sony S5000ES
I have some blu-ray music titles as well as trying out movies. I was always impressed with the multi-channel outputs on the Sony for movies and didn't like the separate stereo. The stereo was very restrained and everything felt pushed back away from the listener. But for movies, the Sony used different opamps for the multi-channel and they were sharp and dynamic. Amazingly the 95 improves on the dynamics further but is not quite as sharp (similar to bright). The 95 seems to do much better with dialogue clarity. The Sony sometimes seemed to lose clarity for voices when lots of other things were going on at the same time. The 95 does not seem to suffer this at all.

In summary, I think the 95 gains with fuller mid-range which I feel is actually slightly warm for my tastes, but overall still gains in so many other areas than the Lexicon or Sony, that it is my preferred choice.

So I suspect where some are saying it sounds thin, is because of the other components in the system, or perhaps they are used to the "British" sound which I regard as too warm. I feel the "British" sound is a leftover from trying to keep that "analogue" sound in a digital age. But as I mentioned above, it is worth trying SHM-SACDs as the sound on that is absolutely analogue despite being a digital disc. However the 3800 is a Japanese product and unlike Arcam, probably does not have a British sound at all...so the thin-warm discussion may centre purely around other components in the system.

In my set-up the Lexicon MC-12 is very neutral, the Bryston amps, very neutral, and Kef reference speakers (4.2s etc) are also very neutral. So i can afford a little warmth in my system. Conversely if you have products that sound like the Pioneer 09FD did when I tried it, a very bright Japanese sound, then you may need to counter it with warmer components elsewhere.

[Vipers @ HiFi Lounge]

Originally Posted by MI55ION

If you're simply bitstreaming to the Susano, why not get the 93?

You'd have more funds for the headphone set, or an uber HDMI cable perhaps?

Originally Posted by MeanDorris

LOL! Yeah, I tried to convince him on this one, but Vipers will be Vipers

I know, I know, I'm a tart and the first to admit it, but I do like the styling of the 95 better and tbh I know the 95's analogues are superior to the 93's and I'd love to try them in my system, and as we all know system matching is very important and just because the 95's analogues didn't suit IWC's setup, compared to his 3800, doesn't mean they won't surpass the Susano in my setup, especially as I'm not interested in 2ch performance.

I think I'll stick the A1UD in the classifieds sometime this week and see what happens.

[Vipers @ HiFi Lounge]

Just picked up a copy of Hi-Fi Choice that came out today. It's got a 5 star review of the BDP-95. They described it as revealing, transparent and musically involving and it's the sound quality that makes it so special.

Looks like it's time to advertise the A1UD

[leon]

Originally Posted by dean999

looking forward to seeing photos of your new set up & observations.

here is the link

http://www.avforums.com/forums/home-...oom-build.html


has anyone tried out the little circuit board region free mod only £50 not sure if its safe or any good ??

[IWC Dopplel]

Originally Posted by vipers

Just picked up a copy of Hi-Fi Choice that came out today. It's got a 5 star review of the BDP-95. They described it as revealing, transparent and musically involving and it's the sound quality that makes it so special.

Looks like it's time to advertise the A1UD

Vipers, I hope you do buy one, I'd like to hear one with a few hours under it's belt. If they have used higher quality caps these can take a little while to sound their best.

Do make sure you properly compare to the A1UD, I have a March 2010 Home Cinema choice that gives 5 stars for performance, design and features for the A1. The review includes comments like "I have only just purchased and installed the awesome Sony BDP-S5000ES and the Denon dismisses it in almost every respect, that really hurts"

" I would give up eating to afford the DVD A1UD" ......

The A1UD has a 3.5Kg disc transport that the technical notes suggesting this was to reduce vibration microphoney. It's darned expensive but for a reason (high manufacturing component cost, low volume, high margin). And no I am not justifying £4.5k....... this is frankly untenable for a BR player !

Forget all the hype, plugin, watch and listen. If you can get Wendy to do the cable swapping so you can test blind. Perhaps an A1UD, Oppo 95, 3800 comparison is called for

[Ian_S]

Originally Posted by IWC Dopplel

Perhaps an A1UD, Oppo 95, 3800 comparison is called for

That could turn into a loooong session...!!

[Vipers @ HiFi Lounge]

Originally Posted by IWC Dopplel

Vipers, I hope you do buy one, I'd like to hear one with a few hours under it's belt. If they have used higher quality caps these can take a little while to sound their best.

Do make sure you properly compare to the A1UD.

Forget all the hype, plugin, watch and listen. If you can get Wendy to do the cable swapping so you can test blind. Perhaps an A1UD, Oppo 95, 3800 comparison is called for

Too late, at the end of the day I'll be happy as long as it is as good as the Sony S350

http://www.avforums.com/forums/dvd-b...l#post14729862

[Welwynnick]

Originally Posted by vipers

Just picked up a copy of Hi-Fi Choice that came out today. It's got a 5 star review of the BDP-95. They described it as revealing, transparent and musically involving and it's the sound quality that makes it so special.
Looks like it's time to advertise the A1UD

Hi Vipers,

Are you seriously planning to replace your A1UD with a 95 - on the basis of a review - by What HiFi?

I'm actually planning to do just that, but then I do have both of them side-by-side (though haven't compared them yet).

Nick

Edit - Oops, I meant HiFi Choice of course!

[dean999]

Originally Posted by Welwynnick

Hi Vipers,

Are you seriously planning to replace your A1UD with a 95 - on the basis of a review - by What HiFi?

I'm actually planning to do just that, but then I do have both of them side-by-side (though haven't compared them yet).

Nick

hi nick

as usual , i am looking forward to your review.

[Darkstar_surfer]

Does anyone know how the Oppo 95EU does with the Vatican wall scene in Mission Impossible III?

[Avi]

Originally Posted by Darkstar_surfer

Does anyone know how the Oppo 95EU does with the Vatican wall scene in Mission Impossible III?

From memory it's fine with the Blu-ray version but exhibits moire artefacts with NTSC and PAL DVD output at 1080p.

Avi

[Darkstar_surfer]

Originally Posted by Avi

From memory it's fine with the Blu-ray version but exhibits moire artefacts with NTSC and PAL DVD output at 1080p.

Avi

That is a pity as I really hoped it would be able to cope better with a DVD for this type of issue.

Am I right in thinking the Oppo 981 could cope with this.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by Darkstar_surfer

Am I right in thinking the Oppo 981 could cope with this.

From memory my 981 couldn't.

Avi

[Vipers @ HiFi Lounge]

Originally Posted by Welwynnick

Hi Vipers,

Are you seriously planning to replace your A1UD with a 95 - on the basis of a review - by What HiFi?

Hi Nick, It's in HIFi choice actually, hopefully they are a little more respectable than WHF? But I spent some time with the 95 last weekend and it seemed to perform OK, obviously I won't know till I've got it in my system and had a proper play.

Originally Posted by Welwynnick

I'm actually planning to do just that, but then I do have both of them side-by-side (though haven't compared them yet).

Nick

Can you hurry up please and let me know you're findings before I let the A1UD go out the door

[Nabs]

For those that own the oppo how does it sound for video streamed compared with the other options on the market? I am not aware of other options that will pass audio through quality dacs

[aliea]

Hi all, sorry if this has been discussed before, I currently got the Oppo bdp-83 Special Edition which serves as my universal player for everything using only the analog connections. I am very happy with the sound but recently started hearing that the 95 is even better. I would love to have people's opinions about it but only those who actually done a/b comparison of the 2 players purely from audio perspective. Thanks in advance!
Nb I'm mostly listening to classical music.

[glorydad]

Originally Posted by aliea

Hi all, sorry if this has been discussed before, I currently got the Oppo bdp-83 Special Edition which serves as my universal player for everything using only the analog connections. I am very happy with the sound but recently started hearing that the 95 is even better. I would love to have people's opinions about it but only those who actually done a/b comparison of the 2 players purely from audio perspective. Thanks in advance!
Nb I'm mostly listening to classical music.

Hi there, I have gone from a 83SE to a 95EU. In fact my 83SE is for sale in the classifieds. You may deduce from that fact that I believe the 95 to be be an improvement using the better DACs. I really like the sound and now use the 95 as my universal spinner. I use analogue into my Arcam AV9 and I am not going to update this processor now I have the 95. Unfortunately for you I have not compared them side by side, but to me the difference was that obvious that I didn't really need to. I will not try and describe what the changes were as my technical ability to describe sound is not at all good. Also, I don't listen much to classical and have not put one on the 95 yet. I know I am not much help but take it as a vote for the 95 and arrange to listen for yourself. Try and arrange something with a dealer.

Good luck it's worth a listen

GD

[ktman]

Originally Posted by aliea

Hi all, sorry if this has been discussed before, I currently got the Oppo bdp-83 Special Edition which serves as my universal player for everything using only the analog connections. I am very happy with the sound but recently started hearing that the 95 is even better. I would love to have people's opinions about it but only those who actually done a/b comparison of the 2 players purely from audio perspective. Thanks in advance!
Nb I'm mostly listening to classical music.

Hi I to had the Oppo bdp-83 Special Edition and sold it to buy the oppo 95eu from oppouk without a demo and love the player used for everything I to find the sound and picture gobsmacking 96/24bit flac off ext Hardrive and mkvs outstanding connected with chord chameleon and chord active hdmi cables also 3d and blu ray DVD playback very smooth, hope that helps