[rscott4563]

Having just bought a Lumagen Vision and in the process of looking for a suitable 50" plasma, I now come to the issue of my DVD player, I've currently got a Denon 2800MKII and it is finally working properly with the latest firmware.

My question is with the Lumagen Vision am I better running the 2800MKII interlaced (how good is it running interlaced?) and letting the Lumagen do the de-interlacing (is the Lumagen better than the Denon at the de-interlacing).

Would I benefit from a better DVD player, my original idea before I got the Lumagen, was to get a Pio 504HDE with a 868i via HDMI, so would say a 868 or another similar priced DVD player (when I say similar I mean to the original 750 I paid when I first got the 2800MKII) using HDMI or DVI give me any sort of improvement over using my 2800MKII through the Lumagen??

Thanks in advance for all your help

[rscott4563]

I've just realised that the Lumagen will not accept a progressive input for scaling and so the issue of is the 2800MKII better at de-interlacing is pretty much redundant as, if I did use the Denon's progressive output I wouldn't be able to scale it up, so bit of a waste!

So I suppose the only question is would a new DVD player for less then about 800 quid give any sort of improvement over my 2800MKII's interlaced output, taking into consideration I don't really care about DVD-A or SACD??

[rscott4563]

Hello anyone??

"Bump"

[pacemaker]

does your lumagen have sdi?
if so then just get you denon modded and connect that way for the very best performance

[rscott4563]

No sadly mines only the standard Vision, only the Vision Pro can have the SDI mod, so its definitely down to the quality of my DVD player that will ultimately effect the final quality, hence my question "can the 2800MKII be bettered in interlaced for around 800??"

[pacemaker]

sorry to go on but sdi really is best route
dont own but have seen improvements it can make
doubt if changing interlace signal will make much/any difference
the money you would have to spend really wouldnt be worth it
any chance of changing/upgrading lumegen for sdi model?

[zAndy1]

Why did you buy the lumagen? Shouldn't you have asked these sort of questions before buying it?! You could have bought a Denon DVD-A11 by the time you've paid for the lumagen and a half decent DVD player. I've only got my experience from Event II to draw upon but I thought the lumagen looked awful on the Pio 433MXE , would expect it was set up ok but it was really soft, PQ was not a patch on e.g. Theatertek on a HTPC and the HTPC is a damn sight cheaper! Wouldn't you have been better off just getting a DVI DVD player that could output 720p or do you need the lumagen for other sources?

Andy.

[rscott4563]

Originally posted by zAndy1
Why did you buy the lumagen? Shouldn't you have asked these sort of questions before buying it?! You could have bought a Denon DVD-A11 by the time you've paid for the lumagen and a half decent DVD player. I've only got my experience from Event II to draw upon but I thought the lumagen looked awful on the Pio 433MXE , would expect it was set up ok but it was really soft, PQ was not a patch on e.g. Theatertek on a HTPC and the HTPC is a damn sight cheaper! Wouldn't you have been better off just getting a DVI DVD player that could output 720p or do you need the lumagen for other sources?

Andy.

Well yeah thanks for the reply zAndy1, but really.. The question I'm asking isn't whats the Lumagen going to do? And is my 2800MKII crap, the Denon 2800MKII when working properly (which mine now is) is very much a decent DVD player, when bought around 14 months ago at 750 quid it was rated as one of the best for the money, my question was merely "is there a new DVD player that might improve on the performance for the same money (14 months on)??" One thought was of the Arcam's as they are meant to be very good picture wise and the interlaced picture quality is rated as being very good, whether it would be much better than my 2800MKII and worth the change is not clear, hence the question.

The Lumagen itself is rated as one of the best de-interlacer/scalers available for upto twice its price (and I got it for a lot less than its actual price, so in my case upto 3x its price) and the flexibility and quality improvements it will give should be invaluable as it will take not only my DVD feed but also my NTL, Xbox, Tivo etc..

With regards to a the Denon A11, I'm sure its going to be the dogs bol#$%ks but it wouldnt help much with any other inputs and even with DVD it wont be as flexible as the Lumagen.

PQ was not a patch on e.g. Theatertek on a HTPC

Well thats a pretty broad statement, normally when someone says eg... they have at least a couple of references, but just to say not as good as a HTPC is very much a sweeping comment. I'm sure most people would agree that with a digital display device than there isn't much available that could compete with a properly setup, well speced HTPC, and most people just dont want a PC in the living room (the missus would end up staring at a blank screen rather than have to use a computer just to watch TV or a DVD), as far as cost goes, I've looked into HTPC's a little and I certainly couldn't get one that could fill the role of a Lumagen (de-interlacing all sources, scaling upto HD 1080p, fitting under the TV, being silent etc..) for anywhere near 675 quid

Wouldn't you have been better off just getting a DVI DVD player that could output 720p

Well as far as I know there isnt a DVD player available that can de-interlace and scale with the quality that the Lumagen should (I know many people rate the Bravo type cheap far east players, but these have there own share of problems from what I've read and with the Panny DVI problems even more issues) for anywhere near the money the Lumagen would cost even new (1100 quid), and again obviously that doesnt help with other sources.

Anyway thanks for your comments, they've made me think a bit more and I've found myself answering a few of my own questions.

[zAndy1]

Sorry if I offended you in any way, I'd had a few drinks when I posted that last night (after my works xmas party)!

Cheers,
Andy.

[rscott4563]

No dont woryy about it, no offence taken, if anything your post just got me thinking myself, and my reply was very early this morn so I was probably coming across a bit sharp...

[rscott4563]

Well with over 200 views and only a couple of replys and no real answers as to an alternative and better DVD player, I'll have to assume that my Denon 2800MKII is probably gonna be staying with me and can't really be bettered for what I need, and I've never said it was anything other than a very good player and only wondered if it could now be out done now. From doing a bit of research I think I've found that without going to say a TAG at around 3x my budget I wont really get any benefit from an upgrade...

Oh well more money for the display and then the next inevitable upgrade...

[zAndy1]

You could always sell the Lumagen and the DVD player and buy a HTPC from e.g. Uvem, I think you'd find that would be a worthwhile and not very expensive upgrade. Sorry to keep on about it but honestly you can't beat a good HTPC (only trying to help honest!).

Cheers,
Andy.

[rscott4563]

And I always appreciate any and all help and advice given, thats why these forums are so good, there's always someone willing to help out.

But I've gotta say for the sake of the missus (not good with a PC) and for my general ease of use I really would prefer a non PC answer. I spend far too much time working with PC's and fiddling with them at home to want to have another one in the house, maybe something for the future??

Also on the cost side, as I would want one that could not only give high quality DVD play back but also accept a lot of other inputs and take care of all of their de-interlacing and scaling, I'd probably need something along the lines of a Holo3D card and DScaler, and hence more cost and possible confusion..

For now its going to be the Denon 2800MKII and all other sources (Tivo, NTL, Xbox) -> Denon 2802 (May need changin due to lipsync issues with the Lumagen & plasma) -> Lumagen Vision -> 50" plasma (probably Panny 6 or Pio 4)
And I think I'll be a very happy man, for now that is until I move and decide to get myself a nice big PJ!!
This bloody forum's gonna cost me a fortune with that upgraderitis it seems to be spreading around!!

[zAndy1]

Well with mine I put a DVD in and it plays (Theatertek). And using the ATI remote wonder I can remote control Theatertek from the sofa (next chapter etc) so it's pretty much identical to a standalone DVD player (except it's far better PQ). And I'm getting perfectly good results using a PB TV100 capture card (£30-£40) and using DScaler (free) which isn't complicated by any means. I'm sure Phil at Uvem will put your mind at ease regarding useability, it's really not that bad honest!

Cheers,
Andy.

[rscott4563]

You on commision from UVEM and PC manufactures in general Andy??
If not maybe you should be, you make a good argument

Well I already own the Denon and the Lumagen now so it would seem a bit daft to sell them off in favour of any other option until I've given them a good go and had a chance to compare them to the alternatives.

When I get the plasma I'll wheel my beast sized games PC in to the lounge and try it out for DVD and do a bit of a comparison (its got a Radeon9700pro,P4 2.8GHz, just sounds like a hairdrier n is the size of a filing cabinet! ) to see if the improvement would be worth a big change around, and no I couldn't just use my games PC as a movie PC, firstly its too loud (yeah could be fixed by fitting passive heat pipes to Radeon and by changing the PSU for a silent one, would cost me though), its too big (yeah could get a new case, but what a waste of my luvly Lian-Li case!), but most importantly it already has a very important job, it plays my computer games....

[pacemaker]

hi guys been checking this thread with some interest
i also have at moment a line doubler(iscan ultra) and using it with a z2 pioneer 656 and denon 2802
its driving me nuts cos i cant decide on the pc route
having tried my pc and iscan together i have to admit not to seeing any diference in pq( basic setup windvd5)
cant get theatretek to work so cant comment on further improvements that could make
dvd player is much easier and kids can use also iscan offers inputs for sky/freeview games console etc
but then again pc offers hd recording games ,futureproof etc
tough call eh!
by the way i also notice very slight lipsync problems with iscan and would almost definately return it if i didnt know a unit is on the way that will allow multiple inputs ie: dvd , sky etc and indevidual audio delay for each so keep hold of the 2802 mate

[rscott4563]

if i didnt know a unit is on the way that will allow multiple inputs ie: dvd , sky etc and indevidual audio delay for each so keep hold of the 2802 mate

Do I take it your on about a seperate unit that will take each input in to it and then add varying delays before sending them back out to the amp?? So a big box with say 2 x digital coax, optical, stereo inputs and then 2 x digital coax, optical, stereo outputs but with the added user defined time delay??

[pacemaker]

Originally posted by rscott4563
Do I take it your on about a seperate unit that will take each input in to it and then add varying delays before sending them back out to the amp?? So a big box with say 2 x digital coax, optical, stereo inputs and then 2 x digital coax, optical, stereo outputs but with the added user defined time delay??

yes that is correct
dont know about analogue i/p though may be just digital
should sell by the truckload eh?

[rscott4563]

Any info on the company or the name of the product?

Depending on cost I still might think of going for a 3803 or AX5i as an upgrade later.

Well the Vision arrived this morning, damn this Christmas lark, now I've gotta wait till January before I can get my plasma and try it out when I do I'll post my findings of my PC vs the Lumagen setup.

[Jase]

pacemaker

How about the new Iscan HD? Details here:-

http://www.dvdo.com/hd/

and details in a thread over at AVS Forum:-

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...64#post3065564

Looks very nice indeed.

[pacemaker]

hi Jase thanks for that
looks very interesting
if lives up to expectations will be an excellent alternative to htpc
will be sending ultra back and waiting for more news

[lowrider]

The Faroudja player does all you need, including multiple inputs, but for a price...

[suzywong]

Having just installed a plasma system, I find that the PQ from Sky varies from OK to poor depending upon channel. I read that this is all down to different channels having different bit rates (is this correct?).

In any event will a scaler improve the PQ?

Chris

[StooMonster]

Originally posted by rscott4563
Having just bought a Lumagen Vision and in the process of looking for a suitable 50" plasma, I now come to the issue of my DVD player, I've currently got a Denon 2800MKII and it is finally working properly with the latest firmware.

My question is with the Lumagen Vision am I better running the 2800MKII interlaced (how good is it running interlaced?) and letting the Lumagen do the de-interlacing (is the Lumagen better than the Denon at the de-interlacing).

The Lumagen scaler has the same deinterlacing chipset (Silicon Image SiI504) chipset as your DVD player.

If you output interlaced from player to scaler, you will add an additional Digital to Analogue to Digital conversion stage that will reduce picture quality. You could have you player modded to send SDI signal to scaler, which is sort-of-what the MPEG2 decoder to SiI504 is already doing inside the player.

Therefore the only benefit you would receive of SDIing player and going though scaler is using the up-scaling part of the hardware. i.e. to use the scaler to increase pixel resolution rather than a screen's internal upscaling chipset.

Since it is widely aknoweldged that it's the deinterlacing chipset and not the scaling that has the largest impact on image quality, one would beg the question: why?

I believe you would be very hard pushed to see any difference at all with your player SDI modded and running through Lumagen to a plasma than you would just running a progressive scan signal from your current player to a 50" plasma. Or running any player with digital signal output through the scaler compared to your current player.

In fact, when auditioning deinterlacers / scalers for my 50" plasma screen it was apparent to all present that there was no visible difference between using a deinterlacer (with SiI504) and plasma's internal scaler chipet versus any tested scaler (with SiI504) either running at native resolution or higher resolution (thereby using the screens scaler, as well, to scale down). *Lumagen suggest running at higher resolutions than the screen and then let the screen downscale to native pixel resolution, not because their scaler doesn't support the native resolutions of these displays (of course not), but because it has lower signal to noise ratio (allegedly).

StooMonster