[Abbeygoo]

I think it's a great idea and will improve the forum.

I have been a member on this forum for about 12 months and have received lots of great help and advice from the members on here.

Occasionally, I have got involved with some 'banter' and Overkill is right when you say email / text can sometimes be misinterpreted. The change to the rules are a great help.

[JagoPlasma]

Originally Posted by SamRadford

The main problem I have with newcomers (and some oldies like above) is that I can't understand their version of "English". Usually I bite my tongue and simply ignore the post. On some occasions this means that they don't get a useful reply.

Consequently, IMHO they should be advised that they are more likely to get a useful answer if they stick to standard English spelling, punctuation, grammar and avoid unnecessary abbreviations and "txt-spk".

People should also be told that they must state the make and model number of any equipment mentioned. Too often we get posts which, in the extreme, could be: "my set top box dont wurk wotz rong?" Sometimes I'll take the trouble to type "Make, model, fault history and more info., please." More often I simply won't bother. It's hard to be welcoming to someone who gives the impression of being five years old. Unfortunately, posts like that attract more posts like that. I've seen other forums disintegrate into playgrounds for juveniles because they were too tolerant of bad English.

This isn't about elitism - it's about effective communication.

and are your insults needed? I was mearly being vague on the title of the website to avoid a backlash. no need to insult my English (which I consider fine and not incomprehensible at all)

[dekoded]

Oh Dear looks like the replys might start a heated debate about what people consider good english/grammar, lets hope it doesn't get nasty or someones going to get a slapped wrist!, ironic really !

Maybe this should have just been a closed topic or maybe just a poll rather than inviting everyone to post their opinion and in turn allowing people to feel insulted by other members, after all you can't please all of the people all of the time and anyone with any common sense would know what you meant by the original post (stuart) and would be more than happy to comply for the good of the forums.

This could just turn into one of those debates we could all do without.

[Oakleyspatz]

Originally Posted by SamRadford

The main problem I have with newcomers (and some oldies like above) is that I can't understand their version of "English". Usually I bite my tongue and simply ignore the post. On some occasions this means that they don't get a useful reply.

Consequently, IMHO they should be advised that they are more likely to get a useful answer if they stick to standard English spelling, punctuation, grammar and avoid unnecessary abbreviations and "txt-spk".

People should also be told that they must state the make and model number of any equipment mentioned. Too often we get posts which, in the extreme, could be: "my set top box dont wurk wotz rong?" Sometimes I'll take the trouble to type "Make, model, fault history and more info., please." More often I simply won't bother. It's hard to be welcoming to someone who gives the impression of being five years old. Unfortunately, posts like that attract more posts like that. I've seen other forums disintegrate into playgrounds for juveniles because they were too tolerant of bad English.

This isn't about elitism - it's about effective communication.

Whilst I agree with you that many newcomers may struggle with some abbreviated words, it is not difficult for someone to ask what an abbreviated word means. For instance, many newcomers may not have a clue what "IMHO" means which 'in my humble opinion' says that we are all as guilty as each other of using 'text-speak'.

[smelly]

Originally Posted by Oakleyspatz

Whilst I agree with you that many newcomers may struggle with some abbreviated words, it is not difficult for someone to ask what an abbreviated word means. For instance, many newcomers may not have a clue what "IMHO" means which 'in my humble opinion' says that we are all as guilty as each other of using 'text-speak'.

I was going to point that out - you beat me to it

Its always going to be difficult to apply rules that are very much down to individual morals or taste but people will soon get used to what they can and can't say and I think its a good idea to reiterate what's expected here. Just want to say though that I've never had any problems here and everyone has always been very friendly to me. I've come across none of the abuse/snide remarks/ignoring that I've had as a female on some other forums, which to me is far worse than any male bantering that's gone on here. That's usually just funny - so thanks for the entertaining guys

Seriously - thanks Stuart and the mods for a good forum.

[Tejstar]

Originally Posted by overkill

I would only add that posting on forums (or on e-mail) sometimes comes across in a way you don't really intend. As such it will be difficult to sort the genuinely offensive, from the well intentioned but 'harsh sounding' posts. I don't envy the mods trying to make that side of it work.

This would be my concern too, however I suppose with the use of similies, maybe potential conflicts would be mitigated.

[Oakleyspatz]

Originally Posted by smelly

I was going to point that out - you beat me to it

Its always going to be difficult to apply rules that are very much down to individual morals or taste but people will soon get used to what they can and can't say and I think its a good idea to reiterate what's expected here. Just want to say though that I've never had any problems here and everyone has always been very friendly to me. I've come across none of the abuse/snide remarks/ignoring that I've had as a female on some other forums, which to me is far worse than any male bantering that's gone on here. That's usually just funny - so thanks for the entertaining guys

Seriously - thanks Stuart and the mods for a good forum.

A girl? What the heck is a girl doing on these forums??

Only jesting Smelly (Smelly? That sound like an insult from the get-go!) I think it is great that we can have a close-nit community where everyone gets along even if they do have differences of opinion.

But I don't want to keep calling you 'Smelly', Smelly! I may get a warning for insults!!!

Can I just call you 'wiffy"?

[krish]

How about a tutting smiley holding a banner with something like "Would you say that to their face?", as a gentle nudge we can use before reporting a poster for repeated rudeness?

Btw, does this rule also apply to replies to blatant spammers?

[Seth Gecko]

Originally Posted by krish

Btw, does this rule also apply to replies to blatant spammers?

Just report them as normal - they get decimated pretty quickly.

[partyweb]

Originally Posted by Oakleyspatz

Whilst I agree with you that many newcomers may struggle with some abbreviated words, it is not difficult for someone to ask what an abbreviated word means. For instance, many newcomers may not have a clue what "IMHO" means which 'in my humble opinion' says that we are all as guilty as each other of using 'text-speak'.

FWIW I C no problem with asking 'stupid' questions. It's the stupid answer that's the problem.

If anyone's puzzled about abbr. words they can always google it. Personally, IIRC It wasn't long ago I thought LOL meant 'Lots of Love' (ok, it was a long time ago). I soon learnt that the person wasn't being amourous but mearly laughing at me. I soon LMFAO when I found out.

[Karma]

I agree with Stuart. Sometimes a check is needed. Not just to re-inforce boundaries but to remove elitism and/or cliqueyness (which is where a lot of other forums fall down and frighten away prospective new members).

These forums are unique in the help, support and friendly banter that happens amongst its pages.

There is also debate. I have a number of occasions where I have complimented the participants because the debates have been carried out in an "enthusiatic" manner yet at no time did they get viscious.

I have learned things and in some cases had my opinions changed by an open, honest, friendly yet robust debate. And long may that continue.

However, sadly, recently some of the debates on here have taken a turn for the openly antagonistic, sarcastic and insulting.

Consequently, as Stuart feels the need to issue a timely reminder, then it can only benefit all of us.

K

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Ian J

What a strange outlook you have. This is an AV forum where we discuss AV equipment and AV problems and members listing their AV kit in their signatures is often helpful to other posters.

Absolutely agree Ian, it never even crossed my mind before that you would put it there for any other reason than to make posters aware of the equipment in question you want help with let alone phallic comparisons.

[Cowden_harley]

Seems like a reasonable idea.

People are always very brave at their keyboards and this should stop them.

Keep up the good work.

[smelly]

Originally Posted by Oakleyspatz

Can I just call you 'wiffy"?

Only if I can call you spaz - the T is silent yeah???

(only joking )

Sorry for but I had to reply!

[Smurfin]

Originally Posted by Ian J

What a strange outlook you have. This is an AV forum where we discuss AV equipment and AV problems and members listing their AV kit in their signatures is often helpful to other posters.

I agree entirely. e penis ritual? There's always someone out there with better kit than you, does it make me feel jealous when I see that? Yeah but I hardly think any more of someone with a bigger, better setup than me. And there's plenty of very knowledgeable people out there with modest setups but a whole lot of knowledge...

[David Mackenzie]

Great rule, more forums need a "be nice" one

[pwood]

I fully support a tightning of the rules.

[senu]

I must be lucky.. I only have time to post on this and DV doctor both of which I find to be moderate even where inflamatory posts are made.

If the "new rules" will prevent a slide into bickering ( which ive seen at shocking levels on some forums ) so be it. It certainly seems to be assumed that forums are a way of letting off steam and things many people would dare not say face to face they would use the anonimity of forums to express

How all this relates to percieved friendlyness and a non cliquey spirit Im not so sure as cliques will form due to longstanding communication and familiarity with tastes ganared from lots of posts in the past.
I have communicated by email , snailmail and phone fellow forum members and found them to be representative of the tone of thier posts for the most part

[Helicon]

Originally Posted by Stuart Wright

Put simply - members should not post anything which they wouldn't say face to face.

Originally Posted by Ian J

I assume that as the enforcement will be down to the moderators the benchmark will be what the individual moderator feels is acceptable and hopefully we don't have any that fit the bill you described.

I'm not trying to be awkward or negative here, but the two statements don't really gel. On one hand, you are restricted to saying what you'd say to someone's face (wide scope there), but on the other hand, it'll either be removed or censored upon someone else's say so (which will depend on the moderator and their mood at the time).


The big problem is that anything you write can be taken two different ways. Also, what one person sees as threatening, another may not. I haven't witnessed the particular aggressiveness/insults etc that have been mentioned above/below, but i would assume that poster would be dealt with accordingly anyway.


It's the 'freedom of speech'-ish thing that makes for some good arguments/debates sometimes

[Oakleyspatz]

Originally Posted by Helicon

I'm not trying to be awkward or negative here, but the two statements don't really gel. On one hand, you are restricted to saying what you'd say to someone's face (wide scope there), but on the other hand, it'll either be removed or censored upon someone else's say so (which will depend on the moderator and their mood at the time).


The big problem is that anything you write can be taken two different ways. Also, what one person sees as threatening, another may not. I haven't witnessed the particular aggressiveness/insults etc that have been mentioned above/below, but i would assume that poster would be dealt with accordingly anyway.


It's the 'freedom of speech'-ish thing that makes for some good arguments/debates sometimes

I think the things Stuart and everyone else wants to get rid of is personal insults or attacks that have an intent of malice.
I mean if someone makes a statement and you disagree then say
" I do not agree with that comment because..."

That would be fine, but if you were to say;

" Only a complete idiot would make such a ridiculous remark as that, you plonker!"

Then that would obviously not be tolerated.

It's not about censorship, it's just about civility, courtesy and common sense.
At the end of the day we are members of a club, the club owners make the rules and if we can't abide by them then we will have our membership revoked.
Well, that's how I see it anyway...Now who wants a fight?

[senu]

Originally Posted by Oakleyspatz

....rules and if we can't abide by them then we will have our membership revoked....

Well, that's how I see it anyway...Now who wants a fight?

Provocative request .....should be censored!!! NOW

[neilos70]

it would be so much better if we could all maintain a decent sense of proportion when conversing with each other on here.

we dont have to agree on everything, but can surely bypass the need to be personal when we all share one thing in common - a love of gadgets that enhance our lives.

changes welcome - full support to the moderators for putting this in place.

[steve1056]

Great initiative!!! Well done AVF !!!

[chaddy]

i love you guys

[barijohn]

I must admit this is one of the more friendly forums on the web. Most of the people on here are very helpful and don't usually tell me I'm stupid. I've got the girlfriend for that!

I don't think these new rules are restrictive, I've always tried to treat others as I expect to be treated anyway.

Though how some of you find the time to post I'll never know. Though perhaps you work at a company that doesn't think the internet is "The Devils Spawn"

[Davy]

I totally agree with Stuarts post and a need to be polite. In the main the subscribers to AV Forums 'speak' in a manner that they would like to be spoken to, (something of a yardstick I've always tried to adopt myself). Unfortunately, you will always get the individual, who for whatever reason, acts agressively or irrationally. You only have to look at the road rage that is all too apparant in our society today. I am sure that many of those who act with such vociferous agression inside their cars, may not do so if they were face to face with the other driver - perhaps sat in the comfort of their own home, ridiculing the faceless, less knowledgable 'other person' is their equivalent of a motor car. I have occassionally read rude threads and even commented that I felt it so. On that occassion a moderator felt the same way and from what I remember the thread was closed down. I have also wanted to comment at times, but did not want to get involved in a particularly heated debate, for fear of being ridiculed, something that I am sure the whole phylosophy of AVF is against. This is a wonderful forum and a wealth of knowledge and is surely one of the good things that we want from the World Wide Web. With so many quarters knocking and quite rightly at times, the bad aspects of the internet, it's nice to see someone preserving what is good.

[gkinghrn]

Agree 100%.... this is a great site lets keep it friendly and helpful with no ranting and raving....

[Xstyle]

Originally Posted by JagoPlasma

i see no problems with these forums whatsoever. i always feel welcome and among my peers whenever i post.

Ditto!

Love this site for the people, the content, and all the knowledge!
All hail AVF!

[TJNewton]

Great initiative Stuart but I've got to say I'm really surprised you have felt it to be necessary.

In my experience I have found this to be one of the friendliest most helpful forums I have visited, perhaps I've just been lucky.

[WheresMyArtisan]

You bunch of *********s.

Just kidding. This is a brilliant idea, and only formalises what I've found to already be probably the most welcoming, least cliquey forum on the web. Hopefully you'll start a new revolution for all forums.