[Stuart Wright]

Phil discusses, amongst other things, the future of TV.

Panasonic LIVE @ IFA: VIERA innovation outlook - YouTube

[zAndy1]

Interesting to hear Phil say if you put a TV with THX mode into that mode you'll see the material as the director intended with correct colours and skin tones etc, there's no way that applies to THX cinema on the VT50 it's so green it's ridiculous. I also doubt very much that statement applies to many TVs with a THX mode, just having a THX mode doesn't guarantee accuracy by any means.

Thanks
Andy

[Mark Hodgkinson]

Some are too green, some too red and I've even seen one with too much blue energy in the greyscale but, whichever way, it's the closest out of box setting to the standards. Of course it's never perfect but you need to consider the audience Phil was speaking to...

[Phil Hinton]

Originally Posted by zAndy1

Interesting to hear Phil say if you put a TV with THX mode into that mode you'll see the material as the director intended with correct colours and skin tones etc, there's no way that applies to THX cinema on the VT50 it's so green it's ridiculous. I also doubt very much that statement applies to many TVs with a THX mode, just having a THX mode doesn't guarantee accuracy by any means.

Thanks
Andy

Andy,

Depends completely on your starting point as to whether it is more accurate. In the vast majority of cases users will have their TVs in Vivid/Dynamic or some standard modes where the picture is well away from being accurate and is probably doing all sorts of other things, like clipping detail. My general advice of putting it in THX/Cinema/Movie will get people to a more accurate and comfortable viewing experience compared to their starting point. There is no denying that from such a very common starting point for the vast majority of users, the image will be better and more accurate. If you have a pro calibration or even a DIY attempt, then no it won't be more accurate but there would only be a handful that applies to watching the interview. I also said content creators as I think the phrase 'directors intent' is being misunderstood.

[steviedr]

I think the title needs to be renamed, the host and the Panny guy appeared to be the guests
Interesting comments on 4K screen size, I guess if the studios have been using 19” screens for years (think this was the max size of screen when the standards first came about), it makes sense that it should still look great at that size.
I’m hoping the next gen consoles (maybe due next year) will help deliver 4K content as they did with blu ray, dvd, cd, at a reasonable price.
With the current economic climate and the losses some of the big names have made, I have a horrible feeling it may just be blu ray again which would be a real missed opportunity as this seems to have been a long cycle waiting for next gen consoles.
Are you guys reviewing any OLED sets soon so we can start to dream?
Are they living up to the hype from what you have seen at IFA?

[LicensedTaximan]

As regards to the THX mode....

....I find setting my VT30 (50") to THX and with a little colour trimmed off gives me a great picture. I went to the trouble of setting the picture, via one of the tv's two pro settings, with one of those THX setups from a BD (a Pixar one as well as Star Wars) and the difference between the two was nothing to shout about let alone whisper. So in my instance the THX setting was "A" ok, although I accept we all have our own preferences.

Now whether I have been lucky or not I don't know but with my sample I have had no problems with the dreaded "green tinge" debacle and the four fans at the rear of my set are virtually silent and with the sound off. Having said that one should not, at the cost of this tv, have any colour problems or extranious fan noise in the first place. Apart I suppose from the odd tv manufactured on the Friday night and Monday morning syndrone. Ayway you held your own well Phil, you'll make it to Hollywood yet mate.

[Scooby2000]

Fantastic job Phil very good plugging for the forum and yes was more the Phil show than a Panasonic production lol.

I'm guessing when you talk about seeing the advantages of 4k on a small screen you're taking into account viewing distances? I'm guessing a surgeon or doctor will be looking closer than someone watching films etc for example.

At the start you say 10 years for 4k then later 5 years, not that I'm an expert but 10 years seems a lot more likely going by the poor infrastructure the UK still has and the issues around tech you raised yourself.

[steviedr]

Originally Posted by Scooby2000

At the start you say 10 years for 4k then later 5 years, not that I'm an expert but 10 years seems a lot more likely going by the poor infrastructure the UK still has and the issues around tech you raised yourself.

I would hope 5 years 4K will be mainstream if they can sort the delivery device next year.
I went to see the Hi Vision demo's at the BBC, 8K may start to be broadcast in Japan in 10 years, so 4K should be soon.
With the recession, I imagine the tech companies are dying to start the cycle again, 4K screens, new players, new media, movie collection, then cinemas upgrade to 8K so we have a reason to go and so the cycle continues....

[Phil Hinton]

Originally Posted by steviedr

I would hope 5 years 4K will be mainstream if they can sort the delivery device next year.
I went to see the Hi Vision demo's at the BBC, 8K may start to be broadcast in Japan in 10 years, so 4K should be soon.
With the recession, I imagine the tech companies are dying to start the cycle again, 4K screens, new players, new media, movie collection, then cinemas upgrade to 8K so we have a reason to go and so the cycle continues....

4K is far more likely to be a viable format for the home and if the industry gets together to make sure the standards adopted offer the best performance quality at reasonable data size, it will be a noticeable upgrade for the consumer. There are possible benefits over and above what we have now in the home, notably better bit rate, better gradation with a colour gamut that matches the DCI spec and of course higher resolution. Those benefits and more are worth the effort and the consumer will probably see the differences. The data rate is high but I think solutions will be found to make it viable soon and if the Manufacturers and content providers get it right, I think my 5 year prediction of there being broadcast availability, better broadband and a wide adoption (maybe not mass market quite then) is realistic.
I am less convinced with 8K just because of all the technical hurdles involved with the sheer size of data and the fact there are only, at this time, 3 cameras in existence. There is no content apart from very limited NHK captures and hollywood is not close to switching anytime soon in production. I think 10 years is still being kind in terms of prediction and I see it on a longer curve than that, possibly 15-20 years. I also don't think it will make as big an impact on the consumer over and above 4k as there won't be as big a jump in image changes other than resolution. We will have seen all the other benefits with 4K, so I think you get into the diminishing return area in that case.
I have to say that after 4 slow years with the recession the next couple of years will be exciting and we should see some major shifts happening. If every major manufacturer is not showing OLED and 4K/8K TVs and at least some announcement on a delivery device for 4K at CES this year, I will be most surprised.
Finally, Panasonic asked me along as they wanted to do a segment that was different to the product specific content of their usual IFA stream and one where the industry and future as a whole could be discussed with someone independent of Panasonic. I did talk a lot

[Happy Rich]

I look forward to a review of those great fitting in-ear phones Phil

[Scooby2000]

Originally Posted by steviedr

I would hope 5 years 4K will be mainstream if they can sort the delivery device next year.
I went to see the Hi Vision demo's at the BBC, 8K may start to be broadcast in Japan in 10 years, so 4K should be soon.
With the recession, I imagine the tech companies are dying to start the cycle again, 4K screens, new players, new media, movie collection, then cinemas upgrade to 8K so we have a reason to go and so the cycle continues....

But how long has it taken 1080p to get where it is? A large amount of the population still don't get 1080p, they don't have the broadband speed to stream 1080p still, I know many people who still can't even stream let alone at 1080p. Were still in recession and people have already paid out for 1080p sets and are still only just getting 3D. Most places still sell more DVDs than blurays and gaming wise there's still very few 1080p games.

Sure in five years they may well be pushing 4k on the public, but mainstream? bit unrealistic IMO and Phil you still say 10 years then 5 and yes sure for some 4k may be a reality, but the majority won't have the money or even understand what 4k is all about.

Are we also talking 4k plasma still in 5 years? Or just LCD and OLED? Surely OLED is still going to be quite pricey in 5 years and I find it highly unlikely most plasma owners will switch to LCD, then people will need to invest in new kit to play 4k material too after probably less than 5 years.

Don't get me wrong, Id love a big 4k OLED or CLED in 5 years but how affordable is that likely to be? Most posting in the what TV to buy forum have a budget below 1k realistically I can't see my budget ever being above 2k. A lot of people still going from CRT or HD ready sets are looking for 50" sets for £500.

Internet speed wise Im lucky enough to have 50mg broadband but its more often than not just 20-30.

In short I think it'll be like bluray, available but nothing like mainstream for at least another 5 years later.

[Phil Hinton]

Predictions are just that and simply my educated guess in the interview based on what I see dealing with this stuff day in, day out. I agree with much of what you say, as I only think people will start to be interested when the pieces of the puzzle are in place. Mainstream will always be a long curve of acceptance and change, however, there are many on this forum who will want in from the start and it is these people who will drive the speed of change. Also, one area we never consider is the custom install market, where the vast majority of this tech will turn up first as the budgets suit. Five years can be a long time in the tech world these days, so who knows for certain, 4K might be the next minidisc/DVD-Audio/SACD etc. but I like to think that won't be the case given the positives it can offer the enthusiast and (eventually) the mass market.

[steviedr]

Originally Posted by Scooby2000

Sure in five years they may well be pushing 4k on the public, but mainstream?

Yes the choice of mainstream was incorrect, what I meant was common among the likes of people on these forums, those who may spend the extra pounds to guarantee great quality, early adopters etc…I’m sure dvd is the best selling format, maybe blu ray will never reach those heights even in 5 years never mind 4K content.
I did say hope and I still do hope in 5 years time, we will be able to enjoy 4K content, if they can sort the delivery device out over the next year. Within 2-3 years of launch it should become more affordable, only going by what happened with blu ray, launch prices around £1200, within a year down to £800, then available through consoles for £450.
I still hope for physical media, I don’t want it piped to my home unless it can be guaranteed with the same quality and at no extra cost (not going to happen). Even streaming HD content today on my 7MB connection is poor in comparison to Blu Ray, satellite while better, still can’t touch it.
I’m still in the old school dept, I like to hold what I purchase, the online convenience is great, put if the prices are the same, why not have the content to own?
If 4K delivery is planned to be via network only, I think it would be a disaster or at least delay sales for many years.

[Scooby2000]

So easy to have misunderstandings online lol.
I was early to DVD and bluray spending £550 on my first DVD player and £350 on a 40g PS3( I still think that was a bargain at the time). Sadly with OLED and 4k I'll be just a tad out of my league money wise. Im still explaining the merits of bluray over DVD to people I just can't see 4k being an easy sell to more than the wealthy enthusiast. I remember my brother getting his first 42" Pioneer plasma cost him around 5k, amazing to think until recently I had a bigger and better set for under a k and now he has 65" ST50 he got for less than half the cost of the pio. Took a while to get there though.

Im sure 4K and OLED will be on wide sale before 2017 for those lucky members that can afford them, just for most of us without the funds it'll be around ten years away, hope Imo wrong and Phil certainly has more knowledge than me so as you say Phil Its just guess work for now. What I want to know is when can I buy a CLED?

I blame you Phil for my new craving for Sony's funky tech, your first impressions of the prototype have me wanting one. That and Imo reading about uniformity and viewing angle restrictions with OLED?

[Ten80p]

Phil, I have the number of a good tailor. Drop me a line if you're interested.

[meltonboy]

I guess that if the main guys all bring OLED to CES in Jan, we'll have an idea of where everyone is starting with their first consumer generation pricing. You clever chaps can then apply whatever yearly discount is the norm from previous technology.

I thought that i read on here or heard on the HC podcast that the fist gen OLED might not be as expensive as many would fear ie thousands rather than tens of thousands.

I might have dreamt that, though...

MB

[steviedr]

Originally Posted by meltonboy

I guess that if the main guys all bring OLED to CES in Jan, we'll have an idea of where everyone is starting with their first consumer generation pricing. You clever chaps can then apply whatever yearly discount is the norm from previous technology.

I thought that i read on here or heard on the HC podcast that the fist gen OLED might not be as expensive as many would fear ie thousands rather than tens of thousands.

I might have dreamt that, though...

MB

If it was a dream, I really hope it comes true!!

[domtheone]

500 GB for one 4K movie

[meltonboy]

Originally Posted by steviedr

If it was a dream, I really hope it comes true!!

Followed by the dream that my 2005 screen "breaks" and (after acting gutted / telling the kids off) i go and buy one of those OLEDs.

Nice to dream