Hi Gloss flooring

*gargoyle* · 29-07-2004, 9:53 AM

After twenty years of carpets, I,v finally decided to take the plunge and purchase a good quality Hi Gloss flooring called elesgo which is pretty pricey but as the home cinema room is small, should'nt be too expensive.
One thing that worries me is acoustics - I know that there may be some drastic changes to the sound of my home cinema kit - has anyone out there purchased hard flooring? How did it change your rooms acoustics? What did you do about it?

Triggaaar · 29-07-2004, 11:09 PM

It will make a room more live, but will be different for each room. The more soft furnishings, wall hangings etc you have, the less of a problem it will be. If it's too live, look at room treatment from the likes of Auralex.

Gary Lightfoot · 01-08-2004, 11:24 PM

For home cinema, the front wall, floor and lower side and rear walls should be dead, and the walls above ear height live. You may get some terrible echo with a bare floor - try clapping and see how it sounds.

If it is echoing, the only way round it would be to put a rug on the floor. You may have to experiment to find the most effective place for it though. If the floor is the only thing that's changed, then that's all you should need to treat.

Gary

*gargoyle* · 02-08-2004, 8:18 PM

Is room size a factor?

Gary Lightfoot · 02-08-2004, 10:04 PM

I would think the same physics would apply, but the only to find out is to try.

It's often the case that the theory isn't always the same as in practice. You could remove the carpet, and fit everything back into the room much as it was before, and see what it sounds like. You should then get an idea of what bare floors will sound like without having used the gloss flooring. You might find it perfectly acceptable with the volume levels you're happy with. Music requirements are often quite different to home cinema, so you may have to make comprimises with one over the other.

Gary

cricket · 05-08-2004, 10:13 PM

Just get the biggest rug you can buy, That is what i am doing.

NinjaKi11a · 06-08-2004, 12:06 AM

I got high gloss flooring installed about six months ago. I love it and wouldn't change it as nothing looks nowhere near as good, but... this stuff is about the most impractical thing you can put on the floor. The first I knew about it was when the installer made me take my shoes off when I came downstairs. It scratches really easily - I have to use the upholstery head on the vaccum (I got a piece of grit under the regular head one...). It also dents pretty easily - dropping a fork has left a mark. And lastly if like me you walk around bare feet, you'll find yourself running around with a duster a lot... I'd repeat again that I woudn't change what I've got as it looks the nuts, but I'd urge you to reconsider if you've got kids or careless flatm8s, etc.

BTW if you're in London area, I know a very good installer.

Seeing as I just took and uploaded photos for insurance purposes, I'll give you an idea of what I got. You might notice that one of the bonuses of high gloss floors (when you haven't got a rug) is that you get to see two tv images!

Barry.NI · 06-08-2004, 12:03 PM

I installed real wood flooring in the lounge area, without appreciating how soft it really was. The setee and TV left quite sizeable dents, so much so that I took it up, and relaid it, losing about a third in the process. I am no ultra careful. I recently attended a two day course at CEDIA in Birmingham, a large part of which was accoustics. They used the example referred to earlier, of clapping one's hands, and listening to the reverberations. Hard floors, concrete walls affect the sound considerably, and reproduce harsh sound, as do windows etc. In my dedicated AV room, I have gone for carpet, plenty of drapes, hollow walls filled with foam etc. They also showed us how to make bass absorbers, large carboard tubes, such as found in new carpets, wrapped in carpet. If you drop the tube end on, the noise that it makes is the frequecy that it absorbs. Unfortunately not the sort of thing you would want to add to the elegant room by SansSouci

cricket · 06-08-2004, 10:38 PM

If you do not want it to mark Get something like Ronseal Diamond hard floor varnish, Does exactly what it says on the tin

*gargoyle* · 07-08-2004, 1:56 AM

Right now, I'm beginning to have second thoughts about Hi Gloss - on the one hand, it looks absolutely spectacular as SanSouci's photo testifies, and my brother in law (yo mike!) who's just gone into business, installing flooring systems has agreed to install mine for free, but on the other hand, I'v spent a great deal of time fine tuning my systems acoustics and all that would be shot to hell if I go ahead with it, buying a rug does'nt make sense either - whats the point of spending a great deal of money on the flooring only to throw a large rug over it?
Decisions decisions............

avanzato · 07-08-2004, 12:11 PM

Having a wood floor doesn't automatically mean the acoustics will go bad. I would have a good solid hardwood floor instead of carpet (or glossy laminates) anyday. My concern with the elesgo in a media room wouldn't be the sound but with a floor that shiny, the light that's reflected off it.

*gargoyle* · 08-08-2004, 2:14 PM

Does anyone else have any pics of their flooring? At the moment, I'm swayed by the "poor acoustics, horrendous maintenace'" argument but maybe a nice looking setup might change my mind - sometimes, you just have to sacrifice practicality for beauty - this may or may not be the case here.

cricket · 08-08-2004, 3:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gargoyle

Does anyone else have any pics of their flooring? At the moment, I'm swayed by the "poor acoustics, horrendous maintenace'" argument but maybe a nice looking setup might change my mind - sometimes, you just have to sacrifice practicality for beauty - this may or may not be the case here.

Just halfway through doing mine, Will post some pics when ready.

Loafer316 · 09-08-2004, 6:56 PM

I have real wood american walnut flooring...will post some pics once my speakers are up.

Andy_t · 10-08-2004, 10:41 AM

Sansouci can I just ask what you've got under the spikes of your speaker stands? Do coins work well enough or would you recommend some proper spike shoes?

Tracey · 10-08-2004, 1:17 PM

I think everyone has the same dilemma, what looks nice, what sounds nice and what's practical! I love the look of high gloss flooring but the point is it only looks nice when it's spotless. I learnt my lesson when I decided to go for polished black granite floor tiles in my kitchen, good job I've got a very small kitchen!!

However, it's not all gloom and doom it's all about slight compromise. My living room has a solid ash hardwood floor that has a satin finish and lots of variation in the grain. It looks fantastic and doesn't show up any marks unless you're specifically looking for them and doesn't dent very easily either. All wooden floors will dent if you don't use pads underneath furniture etc but some woods are softer than others so go for ash or oak. I was also worried about the accoustics and I dare say if I compared it side by side with a carpeted room I may notice a slight differrence, but I'm happy with the sound, in fact it sounds fantastic, just make sure you get a huge, thick rug because without a rug or curtains I was nearly ready to comit suicide when I first had a listen!

Good luck on your decision.

p.s. you will definitely notice the reflection from the floor if you're used to carpet, the room will never be completely dark with the tv on.

NinjaKi11a · 10-08-2004, 10:28 PM

One pence pieces under the speakers - without them the spikes make a complete mess! Seeing as I spent a fortune on the Stands Unique equipment rack, I bought their nice shiny feet. But at £5 (or maybe more) for four, they're not particularly good value.

*gargoyle* · 11-08-2004, 8:16 AM

At present, I'm still in two minds, I'v been checking some of the press concerning the elesgo laminate flooring and here's some quotes -
'hard wearing elesgo surface, easy to clean and maintain, scratch resistant , - some of this conflicts with what you guys are saying as some of you maintain that it can be awkward to maintain and easy to scratch or damage, my brother in law who checked them out at a showroom said that his shoes could'nt mark the surface and on the face of it, was damned near indestructible, if these claims are true, my minds more or less made up - my only worry is the acoustics - I LOVE the looks of this flooring, it looks so damned impressive, but I am point blank unhappy about having to plonk a rug in the middle of the room.
My mind still is'nt made up but I have to make a decision soon as my bro in law who's offered to install it only has a small window of time in which to install it and being based in london does'nt make matters easier for him as I'm a brummie!

Adrenochrome · 11-08-2004, 11:46 AM

Gargoyle the thing to remember is scratch resistant isn't the same as scratch proof.

Adrenochrome.

Tracey · 11-08-2004, 12:52 PM

It does look fantastic, I love high gloss surfaces but even if it doesn't scratch it will be a real pain to keep it clean, you would have to clean it every day to keep it looking perfect, as I said before I've learnt my lesson with my polished granite kitchen floor. As for accoustics, it really does depend on the room, I'm not sure if laminate willl sound better or worse than solid wood, but in my living room it sounded really boomy and echoey until I got the rug and put the curtains up.

*gargoyle* · 11-08-2004, 2:25 PM

Tracey, given that Elesgo also do stone effect finishes including the one you use in the kitchen, its reasonable to assume that yours may, or may not be from the same manufacturer - so yours may have the same properties as the type I intend to purchase - how long have you had it? how does it look? (in terms of wear, or lack of), is it an hassle keeping it pristine?
Adrenochrome, can you expand on what you mean by scratch resistant and scratch proof?

Tracey · 11-08-2004, 2:44 PM

Hi, I have real granite tiles on my kitchen floor, black granite that has been polished to give it a high gloss finish, as far as wear and tear is concerned it's excellent you'd have to get down on your hands and knees with a very sharp knife to mark it. If I clean it every day it stays relatively clean but things that you wouldn't notice on carpet really show up, as it's black it seems to accumulate loads of white fluff, god knows where it comes from, and being a kitchen loads of crumbs everywhere. As I said, I have a small kitchen so it's not too bad, but to clean it, it needs to be washed then buffed up with a cloth because when the lights are on every single mark shows up. The easiest way to clean laminate is to buy one of those swiffer mops, they will just pick up all the fluff. I think your main problem really is what will it sound like, would you not be prepared to put a rug in the room if it sounded really bad? will you have curtains or any other soft furnishings?

I had my granite floor tiles laid about a year ago and they're still in perfect condition.

*gargoyle* · 11-08-2004, 4:57 PM

Ah, I notice you mention FLOOR TILES, not laminated flooring, so yours is more of a permenant fixture and being made of granite means it differs in texture, strength and composition - that being the case, yours should last a considerable period but laminate is a different story........
nevertheless, both laminate and stone have one thing in common - finish - maintenance should be more or less the same for both but most of my furnishing is mahogany/black and dust just loves anything black so I'll be settling for a lighter wood texture.

NinjaKi11a · 11-08-2004, 5:56 PM

Cleaning it ain't too bad really. Obviously high gloss shows up the dust and you also tends to find irritating bits of crud even after you've hoovered, but cleaning once a week isn't a problem. As for marks and finger prints, I usually just run it over with a duster every month or so: no worries.

Like I say, the major issue is scratches and dents, although I can only speak for the particular type that I have (which was £30-40-ish a square metre).

avanzato · 11-08-2004, 7:54 PM

How about getting hold of the warrantee and care leaflets for the flooring before you buy it. They'll give you some idea of what's involved in owning the floor and the 'damage' that won't be covered. Also find out if the floor can be refinished or not, most laminates can't.

Knightshade · 15-08-2004, 9:34 PM

Coins are good (If you don't have children). Heavier the speakers the better they work. If you have children beware. Heavy speakers + fast children = big spike holes in floor....
If anyone has an alternative to coins I'd be interested.

*Tonmeistermat* · 06-09-2004, 4:45 PM

Hard wood flooring, however lovely looking will completely compromise the sound of the room! I'm having enough problems in a carpeted room, surrounded mostly with bookcases! There's a horrid flutter echo which I think is not helped by the sloping ceiling. The other thing is if it really is very shiny, as someone mentioned earlier on, you'll get big reflections of the picture, which I think would be distracting...

I would stick to a thick pile carpet with a substantial underlay...

Mat

ps - I know this thread is a bit cold now, but I had to chip in my piece!

avanzato · 06-09-2004, 7:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonmeistermat

Hard wood flooring, however lovely looking will completely compromise the sound of the room! I'm having enough problems in a carpeted room, surrounded mostly with bookcases! There's a horrid flutter echo which I think is not helped by the sloping ceiling.

Like most generalisations that's not true, after all the carpet hasn't sorted your problem. It may even be accentuating the echo by absorbing the sound over a limited range but not the frequencies where the echo is, so making it stand out more. Also the bookcases if against the wall (and depending on the books) will still be parallel surfaces for sound to bounce between, IMO the walls are much more of a problem than the floor.

You probably need some wideband absorbtion in the room. For a cheap experiment get 4 bales of fluffy fibreglass insulation and stack two in each corner nearest the speakers, still in their plastic. The sound will change. You could try opening the top bale and the sound will change again. Then when you've finished, as they look a bit rubbish in the living room put it in the loft and have a warmer winter.

technoman28 · 16-09-2004, 8:46 AM

reading thru this thread, i wonder if anyone else has this problem. i put down laminate flooring and now i have a strange situation where the sub woof is more audible when you stand in a particular place? i have it with the port facing out towards the sofa, and although you can hear it you cant really feel it. yet when you stand to the side of it you can hear and feel it. it seems to be that the bass is transferred along the lengths of the floorboards better than it is through the width of them. has anyone else come across this or is it just me? any ideas as to solutions, apart from the obvious rip the floor up and lay it the other way round?

*Tonmeistermat* · 16-09-2004, 10:16 AM

not sure where you're getting your information avanzato, but you're contradicting some of the fundamental laws of acoustics with those opinions!

I should have made my point a bit more clearly... my room is a recording studio which doubles as a "home" cinema out of hours, and the flutter echo is a very minor niggle for me as an audio professional which most people who haven't had years of training and experience wouldn't notice. Other than that I'm very happy with the sound of my room as a home cinema.

Carpet (particulary with a thick underlay) is a great broadband absorber particulary in the mid to high spectra, and that's why a lot of professional installations have carpet panels on the walls. It's a cheap alternative to high cost acoustic absorbers that are not neccessary in the majority of cases. The place where carpet fails is in the very low end of the spectrum.

technoman28, you are observing what are called standing waves - low frequency sounds, where the wavelength is approaching the dimentions of the room, cause uneven bass at various locations due to the cumulative effects of wave mechanics. If you want to know more about the physics, there's plenty of sites on the interweb - google will provide you with hundreds! This effect would always have been in the room, but was very much reduced when the room was carpeted hence it becoming much more noticable now. Standing waves are tricky to manage - if your speakers are fixed. Luckily, your sub is not fixed so you can move it around the room until it sounds better! Failing that, you will need to install some low frequency specific absorbtion... I was reading about something that does that which is reasonably cheap - I'll dig out their website tonight and post it on. You may find that re-positioning the sub solves your problem though. Check on the back of the sub - there may be a phase ajustment knob which may also help you out...

Mat