[YellowOx]

Hope someone can help. I want to turn off the 414s video processing so that it passes HDMI video straight through without doing anything to it.

Very happy with the sound coming from my Onkyo 414 but unhappy with the dergadation of images coming through it. Its OK, its not faulty or anything but resolution and colours are noticeably not as good as when the screen is fed direct and there is some minor blockiness.

I have skybox and bluray hdmi 1.4 cabled into the 414 hdmi inputs, then a single QED cable from the 414's hdmi out to the screen.

Even when its passing the signal through in standby the image seems to be slightly but noticeably poorer...which is odd because i guess there isnt any video proessing happening then? So should I just feed the screen directly (which isnt as easy as it sounds as its fireplace mounted with concealed cabling)

[dante01]

It already passes HDMI video through (or should be) without any processing. Amps at this level generally have no ability to modify or enhance video sourced vis their HDMI inpts. Upscaling and conversion is more commonly applied to analogue video inputs and not HDMI. You can't turn off something that isn't turned on to begin with. I'd return the amp as this sounds like a fault or inherent undesirable aspect of its HDMI output. Have you tested the source components via a direct connect to your display with both the cables being used to connect them to the amp and the cable used to connect the amp to the TV? This would eliminate the source and the cables as being the cause.

[YellowOx]

Great answer thanks. So if the receiver is in hybrid standby it's just acting as a hdmi switch?

Tested the cables and source as you suggested they are fine when they go direct to display.

The degradation isnt THAT bad, it's like the difference between a £20 and a £50 hdmi cable (although I thought digital meant there should be no difference but there definitely is!). But I can see it and it bothers me. Is this just the price for the convenience of putting all the hdmi through a receiver?

[dante01]

Originally Posted by YellowOx

The degradation isnt THAT bad, it's like the difference between a £20 and a £50 hdmi cable?

So there is no degradation at all then and you are imagining it?

There no improvement in PQ associated with different HDMI cables. They all pass the exact same information.


What I'm suggesting is that there may be a fault with the amp.

[YellowOx]

So I changed the amp. There still appears to be a small but noticeable drop in resolution and colour depth putting bluray through the amp instead of direct to the display.

I understand that this does not make sense given HDMI is digital, but even my wife commented without any prompting from myself that the picture isnt as good as it used to be.

Its a panasonic bluray and display. Is it possible that by connecting through the amp, there is something that the bluray and display can do together that amps cannot pass through?

The problem is that I dont really want to run separate hdmi's up to the display because the cabling is all concealed at present and its a major job to run another HDMI up.

[dante01]

I can state categorically that there will not be any difference what so ever in relation to resolution. How are you making comparisons? It must take you several minutes to simply swop the cables, nevermind get to the exact same time frame on the media????

[YellowOx]

Yes it does take several minutes and the difference is small but is enough to be noticeable. On a direct link through you can see more detail in hair and faces and deeper colours.Its like the difference between 1080i and 1080p, so not huge.

I believe you, Im sure your right, binary digital code is binary digital code. But Im not imagining it, for my wife to comment is really telling. She doesnt even believe in HD ("emporers new clothes"). Having done a search on the forum I have also seen other people complaining of this issue with no real explanaiton or solution.

Is it possible that the addition of HD audio going through the same HDMI cable is reducing the bandwidth available for the picture? Or the extra information is magnetically interfering with the signal? Its going through QED profile 1080p 3D cable.

[dante01]

Originally Posted by YellowOx

Is it possible that the addition of HD audio going through the same HDMI cable is reducing the bandwidth available for the picture? Or the extra information is magnetically interfering with the signal? Its going through QED profile 1080p 3D cable.

No

[steverobertsbbc]

Is it possible that Contents Type information is not being passed through the amp? I know Panasonic like to enable content type detection so that, for example, the TV will switch to the Cinema or THX profile rather than Normal if the BD player is playing back a feature film. ie the TV display settings change in response to the contents of the disc. Different profiles include different colour temperature settings and may have individual sharpness settings as well.

Bottom line is asking the question whether the TV mode is the same when plugged directly or through the amp?

[dante01]

The video is being sent as is the audio. The amp simply passes through the video without any processing.

When testing, are you using the same HDMI input on your TV as you use to facilitate the connection from the amp? It could simply be that you've two different sets of picture configurations on you tV that differ for each of the two HDMI inputs. Each HDMI input has its own individual settings and the TV's settings are not universally applied to all inputs.

[YellowOx]

Originally Posted by steverobertsbbc

Is it possible that Contents Type information is not being passed through the amp? I know Panasonic like to enable content type detection so that, for example, the TV will switch to the Cinema or THX profile rather than Normal if the BD player is playing back a feature film. ie the TV display settings change in response to the contents of the disc. Different profiles include different colour temperature settings and may have individual sharpness settings as well.

Bottom line is asking the question whether the TV mode is the same when plugged directly or through the amp?

Great question!

It detects content type cinema whether direct linked or through receiver.

BUT, amazingly, doing this means the display picture settings change from thx cinema to cinema. I have now realised I need to manually switch the display back to thx cinema mode. How annoying is that! I'm not sure this is the answer because it would have been doing this before but more investigation required. Is there any way I can stop it doing this without losing anything along the way?

[scumball]

This is from the NR515 - which I imagine to be similar.

Menu 1 - 1 Input/Output Assign - Monitor Out
Through - if you want SD sources passed unscaled
1080p - if you want Amp to scale SD sources

Menu 4-5 Picture Adjust - Picture Mode (adjustable per source)
Direct - for all sources you want untouched
Through - for all sources you want scaled if you set 1 -1 to 1080p
Game/Cinema/Custom - for all sources you want scaled and adjusted

[dante01]

Originally Posted by scumball

This is from the NR515 - which I imagine to be similar.

Menu 1 - 1 Input/Output Assign - Monitor Out
Through - if you want SD sources passed unscaled
1080p - if you want Amp to scale SD sources

Menu 4-5 Picture Adjust - Picture Mode (adjustable per source)
Direct - for all sources you want untouched
Through - for all sources you want scaled if you set 1 -1 to 1080p
Game/Cinema/Custom - for all sources you want scaled and adjusted

I believe this is in reference to SD analogue video sources? The source in question is an HDMI HD source. HD HDMI video is passed through the amp and no processing is applied to it.

[scumball]

Not sure that is true - when I send 1080i50 through HDMI from my PVR I get 1080p50 output. I have to go Through and Direct to get 1080i50, but I can also change it to 1080p24, or if my TV handled it 4K.

Also changing the colour scale from warm, cool and normal also affects all my HDMI sources - so I would say that there is HDMI processing on this amp.

4K upscaling would be a bit pointless if it didn't work on HDMI as the Component upscaling is very limited on these new models (only accepting 480i/576i inputs).

[Mark.Yudkin]

Your NR-414 has absolutely no video processing whatsoever. Dante01 is telling you the truth, and grasping at straws doesn't change anything.

To determine your NR-414's functionality and setup, you need to consult its manual, not the manual for a different product higher up the range. The NR-515 "incorporates Qdeo™ technology for HDMI Video Upscaling (to 4K Compatible)". The NR-414 however does not, rather it is specified as "Non-Scaling" (manual page 7). In fact it doesn't even transcode (manual, page 68). It does absolutely nothing at all to any video signal except switch it.

Your amp is acquitted - the problem is elsewhere.

[JagoPlasma]

Interesting thread, was looking at this myself as its only £200

Does the 414 have an OSD/GUI over the HDMI out? if so then the HDMI is not pass-through.

if there is not a OSD/GUI over HDMI then it probably is pass-through

Even my cheap 3d-XL wont do any pass-through whatsoever

[dante01]

Originally Posted by JagoPlasma

Interesting thread, was looking at this myself as its only £200

Does the 414 have an OSD/GUI over the HDMI out? if so then the HDMI is not pass-through.

if there is not a OSD/GUI over HDMI then it probably is pass-through

Even my cheap 3d-XL wont do any pass-through whatsoever

The amp does have OSD, but this would only effect the output while using the OSD. Other than that, the TXNR414 uses an HDMI repeater. Any use of the OSD should not effect the source video data and even if there's an inherent fault then the fault should only be apparent while using the OSD. If seeing issues with sources passed through the amp then it is a fault with that amp and not something you can blame video processing for.

If thinking about this amp then be aware that it lacks any form of auto calibration or room EQ correction.

[Mark.Yudkin]

Originally Posted by JagoPlasma

Does the 414 have an OSD/GUI over the HDMI out? if so then the HDMI is not pass-through.

if there is not a OSD/GUI over HDMI then it probably is pass-through

The 414 has OSD over HDMI, but no overlaying. The HDMI is switched pass-through and your "logic" is flawed - the OSD switches the passed-through HDMI video source from that source to its passed-through internal OSD generator.