[charlie0166]

All, apologies if this has been answered already:
I still have the frame stutter problem. I have updated with the latest firmware but still a problem, and for multiple sources - Apple TV, Sky HD etc
The internet chatter seems to have died down - is there a solution out there that I have missed?
many thanks

[tsm76]

Originally Posted by 007india

80hz is THX setting. I have a basic question, is there a relation between freq response of a speaker and cross over. If the freq response of a speaker is in range 150hz and above and if you set a cross over to that speaker channel to 120hz (<150hz) does that make sense.

In my case, I have wharfedale 9.6 for front's which is set at full band since I have no sub. Also rest of the set up is jamo HCS5 A102 where the freq range/response is 150hz o 20khz(as per jamo manual). During audyssey setup the center is set to 120Hz, surround at 150hz and front high at 100hz (all units except front is set to SMALL).

1) I would like to know should I retain cross over recommended by audyssey or cross over in the frequency range specified by jamo manual?

2) If I don't have a sub, setting the LFE to 80 or anything, will it have any effect as the front is set to full band. Audio output is set to MAIN and not MAIN+Sub

Crossover is the frequency point at which you tell the amp to direct the bass from a speaker to the sub instead. If you have no sub, I would say the crossover doesn't really matter (but it should be at or below the lowest response of the speaker to avoid anything being dropped unnecessarily) as the speakers will put out whatever they can. If the speaker frequency response it says in the manual is 150hz upwards, then you shouldn't hear anything below 150hz from it anyway so setting the crossover at 120hz is fine, but it shouldn't really do anything. Set it higher than 150 and obviously you start clipping sound off the bottom end, but without a sub, nowhere to send to it. When you run Audyssey its looking for the lowest frequency response from that speaker. Not sure why it would detect lower other than the tolerances of the speakers are not exact, pitchwise there is not really much difference from 120hz to 150hz as its not a linear scale.

2) without a sub you won't get the LFE channel at all. This is the .1 channel, carrying bass effects only in a 5.1/7.1 etc set up. The LFE is authored below 120hz, and no point in ever changing that setting. With your surrounds set to small, the amp should be sending all the bass through the fronts as they are full band. But no sub = no LFE channel.

[uncola]

Did any of you guys get this receiver as part of onkyo's home theatre in a box with 5.1 speakers? I upgraded the front speakers to kef q900 and I really love the sound I get using them and the subwoofer that came with the system. I love it so much I'm hesitating on upgrading the subwoofer. I mostly listen to music in 2.1 mode and have the fronts crossed at 80hz.. it sounds great, even on bass heavy music like dub step. The subwoofer it comes with is 10" ported downfiring.. it says 120watts but doesn't say if it's RMS or what. Am I kidding myself about this subwoofer sounding good? I have the system set up in a bedroom so I don't need high spl I guess
bottom line, should I upgrade the sufwoofer even if it sounds good to me? maybe I just haven't heard a quality subwoofer before(i haven't)

[007india]

Originally Posted by uncola

Am I kidding myself about this subwoofer sounding good? I have the system set up in a bedroom so I don't need high spl I guess
bottom line, should I upgrade the sufwoofer even if it sounds good to me? maybe I just haven't heard a quality subwoofer before(i haven't)

Its a question of necessity Vs Affordability and then Luxury.

If you are satisfied then it all ends there ofcourse your ear is the best judge. There is no end to this tech. next year you will see something else new and you would be tempted to upgrade your tech

Your floor stander should be good at handling the LFE channel. Have you tried the following
1) Set the Floor stander (Front) to full band and set the output to MAIN+SUB. may be also with double bass option enabled.
2) Being a down firing sub, it should produce enough BASS to the level window glass vibrates, if not satisifed then experiment it by keeping the sub to the corner of the room. Make sure the music optimizer is enabled along with Dn-Eq

Enjoy

[007india]

Originally Posted by tsm76

Crossover is the frequency point at which you tell the amp to direct the bass from a speaker to the sub instead. If you have no sub, I would say the crossover doesn't really matter (but it should be at or below the lowest response of the speaker to avoid anything being dropped unnecessarily) as the speakers will put out whatever they can. If the speaker frequency response it says in the manual is 150hz upwards, then you shouldn't hear anything below 150hz from it anyway so setting the crossover at 120hz is fine, but it shouldn't really do anything. Set it higher than 150 and obviously you start clipping sound off the bottom end, but without a sub, nowhere to send to it. When you run Audyssey its looking for the lowest frequency response from that speaker. Not sure why it would detect lower other than the tolerances of the speakers are not exact, pitchwise there is not really much difference from 120hz to 150hz as its not a linear scale.

2) without a sub you won't get the LFE channel at all. This is the .1 channel, carrying bass effects only in a 5.1/7.1 etc set up. The LFE is authored below 120hz, and no point in ever changing that setting. With your surrounds set to small, the amp should be sending all the bass through the fronts as they are full band. But no sub = no LFE channel.

1) Agreed. I set them to 150Hz CO.
2) having floor stander set at Full band, I expect everything below 150Hz should be fed to front's which also dubs as a woofer. Am I right?

[dante01]

Originally Posted by tsm76

2) without a sub you won't get the LFE channel at all. This is the .1 channel, carrying bass effects only in a 5.1/7.1 etc set up. The LFE is authored below 120hz, and no point in ever changing that setting. With your surrounds set to small, the amp should be sending all the bass through the fronts as they are full band. But no sub = no LFE channel.

The LFE channel is redirected to the fronts if no sub is present, it is not discarded as you suggest. Whether or not the fronts can handle the LFE channel is another matter, but the LFE channel is sent to them if a sub is not utilised.

[TeDeV]

ok i tried the Stereo with audyssey reference to 15db. Still sound is to empty.

there is no WOW factor at all. (for music) some of you mentioned something with the dolby settings?

[goujam]

Originally Posted by TeDeV

ok i tried the Stereo with audyssey reference to 15db. Still sound is to empty.

there is no WOW factor at all. (for music) some of you mentioned something with the dolby settings?

So far I have set reference to 15db set auydessey to music turned music enhancer on and I left dynamic volume on light. But that's for MP3s over network and I seem to get a good output. I also use Dolby plii music with the sound shifted from the centre towards the sides ( left and right speakers with a bit on the centre) I then move the sound slightly to the back and I'm happy with that !

[tsm76]

Originally Posted by dante01

The LFE channel is redirected to the fronts if no sub is present, it is not discarded as you suggest. Whether or not the fronts can handle the LFE channel is another matter, but the LFE channel is sent to them if a sub is not utilised.

Apologies India007, didn't realise this. My first proper AV receiver, didn't realise all it could do. A fine box of many tricks!

[Player 1]

Im begining to wonder if i have gone down the right speaker route ?

I havent got a sub yet, i will this year if i can.

But reading all what is said here has left me wondering why we want speakers that can handle low frequencies and then not allow them to do so and let a sub do it instead ?



Perhaps i should have just gone for small \ tiny satalite speakers that wernt ever made to handle the low frequencies that a sub is meant for.

Does this make sense ?

[goujam]

Originally Posted by Player 1

Im begining to wonder if i have gone down the right speaker route ?

I havent got a sub yet, i will this year if i can.

But reading all what is said here has left me wondering why we want speakers that can handle low frequencies and then not allow them to do so and let a sub do it instead ?

Perhaps i should have just gone for small \ tiny satalite speakers that wernt ever made to handle the low frequencies that a sub is meant for.

Does this make sense ?

Why do we buy cars that can go faster than 70mph?

[dante01]

Originally Posted by goujam

Why do we buy cars that can go faster than 70mph?

How do you know that they can go faster than 70mph?

[goujam]

Originally Posted by dante01

How do you know that they can go faster than 70mph?

Because the specs tell me it does ! Same with speakers we rarely use them to there limits but we trust that they can do it if needed

[Player 1]

Originally Posted by goujam

Why do we buy cars that can go faster than 70mph?

I guess if they were limited to 70mph maybe then we wouldnt buy them.

I understand the analogy you are making, but how does that relate to me having big speakers when tiny ones would do the same with a sub in place ? unless it's so i only know they can "go faster" "lower"

[goujam]

Originally Posted by Player 1

I guess if they were limited to 70mph maybe then we wouldnt buy them.

I understand the analogy you are making, but how does that relate to me having big speakers when tiny ones would do the same with a sub in place ? unless it's so i only know they can "go faster" "lower"

Well faster cars normally stop quicker and Handel better ! I suppose its the same with speakers haveing the abbility to go lower gives the speaker better performance in the useable spectrum !

[dante01]

Will painting stripes down the sides of my speakers make them sound louder?


What about furry dice?

[goujam]

Originally Posted by dante01

Will painting stripes down the sides of my speakers make them sound louder?

What about fury dice?

Dice no but stripes definitely !

[dante01]

Originally Posted by goujam

Dice no but stripes definitely !

[goujam]

The point I was trying to make but maybe poorly is that when anything is designed you don't design to a point ! You allow breathing space above and below your end points, for instance having a speaker that works to 80hz is not ideal although you set your crossover there doesn't mean the speakers don't receive frequencies lower than 80hz. If your speakers work down to 60hz or maybe 40 you will probably find you have a smoother crossover

[dante01]

Originally Posted by goujam

The point I was trying to make but maybe poorly is that when anything is designed you don't design to a point ! r

What about a spear? You'd be daft not to design them to a point

[goujam]

Originally Posted by dante01

What about a spear? You'd be daft not to design them to a point

Depends on if the spear was to be used by children you might want to have a rounded edge !

[dante01]

Originally Posted by goujam

Depends on if the spear was to be used by children you might want to have a rounded edge !

Why would you give a child a spear?

If you ask me, you're just asking for trouble!

[Player 1]

I get the point now,,, just almost regret getting floorstanders which take up a fair ammount of room and are causing me problems with my partner when it comes to having a sub on the floor as well, i dont think she would object if the rest of the speakers wernt quite as big as they AARRGGHH !!!

[goujam]

Originally Posted by dante01

Why would you give a child a spear?

If you ask me, you're just asking for trouble!

For spear throwing training of corse like when kids use the foam javelin instead of real ones

[goujam]

Originally Posted by Player 1

I get the point now,,, just almost regret getting floorstanders which take up a fair ammount of room and are causing me problems with my partner when it comes to having a sub on the floor as well, i dont think she would object if the rest of the speakers wernt quite as big as they AARRGGHH !!!

What speakers do you have ? I find I benifit most from mine for music when I prefer not to have the sub doing so much. But I understand your frustrations I never intened on getting a sub but felt I was missing out

[dante01]

Originally Posted by goujam

… like when kids use the foam javelin instead of real ones

Obviously. We wouldn't want them to sit on real javelins now would we?

[goujam]

Originally Posted by dante01

Obviously. We wouldn't want them to sit on real javelins now would we?

Ha ha not sure what your school used to teach in pe but it doesn't sound right lol

[KUBBY]

Could we get away from Kids with spears,go faster stripes,furry dice etc,please?



K.

[rinkydinkydoo]

Originally Posted by goujam

So far I have set reference to 15db set auydessey to music turned music enhancer on and I left dynamic volume on light. But that's for MP3s over network and I seem to get a good output. I also use Dolby plii music with the sound shifted from the centre towards the sides ( left and right speakers with a bit on the centre) I then move the sound slightly to the back and I'm happy with that !

Hi,
I know I have banged on lots about it but I would turn the Dynamic Volume 'off' for music, you want the range in sound, without it being compressed.
I have done exactly the same for PLII and the same good results. Try 'PURE' with the volume cranked up, it comes alive.
Andy

[007india]

Originally Posted by Player 1

Im begining to wonder if i have gone down the right speaker route ?

I havent got a sub yet, i will this year if i can.

But reading all what is said here has left me wondering why we want speakers that can handle low frequencies and then not allow them to do so and let a sub do it instead ?

Perhaps i should have just gone for small \ tiny satalite speakers that wernt ever made to handle the low frequencies that a sub is meant for.

Does this make sense ?

LFE are uni directional. Where as other channels are directional thats why we place them in different directions.

Also, to have a good bass your woofer cone diameter should be as big as possible where as your small speakers can't do that job. it can handle low freq but the listener can't realise it. For Ex: your apple ear phone generates a decent bass but out of your ear no one can hear the bass.

If you have a floor stander with good bass relex then its as good as having a sub, where as if your AVR allows you to connect 2 Subs then its heaven. In my opinion, either have 2 subs or have a good floor stander and eliminate sub.