[podgey3874]

Originally Posted by iaint

Hi.
You'll need 1 HDMI lead to connect amp to TV, plus one HDMI lead to connect each device (bd player, PS3, etc) to amp.
If your TV does not support Audio Return Channel (ARC), you'll need a suitable lead (normally TOSLINK) to connect the TV back to the amp.
Obviously, you'll need places to put everything and mains supply for everything, antenna feed for anything (TV, sat box, freeview PVR, etc) that needs it. A surge protected extension lead is probably worthwhile.
That amp would appear to support 3 methods of dealing with your iphone. Either the dock (YDS-12), or Bluetooth wireless (YBA-10). Or a 3.5mm-3.5mm cable plugged from the iphone headphone port to the portable jack on the front...
--
Regards, Iain.

i unable to draw a sketch but i will look on the places you said to for the layout
the TV i have is a Samsung model number ps-50c7hd 50 inch plasma could you tell me if it supports ARC?
AND WHY DO I NEED A ATENNA LEAD FOR EVERYTHIN?
MY TV HAS FREEVIUEW BUILT IN

AND I HAVE A APPLE TV
AND XBOX360 SLIM

[iaint]

Hi.
Not everything, just anything that needs it. From what you've said, just your TV. May have freeview built in, but you'll still need an antenna/aerial to get anything. I guess it's working now, though, in which case you've got it already.
No ARC from what I can tell, so if you want to listen to Freeview via your amp, you'll need a TOSLINK cable (eg Play.com - Buy Cable-Tex - Optical digital Audio Lead SPDIF ToSLink Cable 1M online at Play.com and read reviews. Free delivery to UK and Europe!) from the TV (marked "DIGITAL AUDIO OUT (OPTICAL)" to "OPTICAL (TV) AV4" on the amp.
--
Regards, Iain.

[podgey3874]

Originally Posted by iaint

Hi.
Not everything, just anything that needs it. From what you've said, just your TV. May have freeview built in, but you'll still need an antenna/aerial to get anything. I guess it's working now, though, in which case you've got it already.
No ARC from what I can tell, so if you want to listen to Freeview via your amp, you'll need a TOSLINK cable (eg Play.com - Buy Cable-Tex - Optical digital Audio Lead SPDIF ToSLink Cable 1M online at Play.com and read reviews. Free delivery to UK and Europe!) from the TV (marked "DIGITAL AUDIO OUT (OPTICAL)" to "OPTICAL (TV) AV4" on the amp.
--
Regards, Iain.

thanks again cable ordered
so correct me if i am wrong i now need to connect hdmi cable from amp to tv
then amp to xbox via hdmi
and amp to apple tv via hdmi yes?

[PSM1]

Yes you are correct. All sources to amp via HDMI and the HDMI from amp to TV.

[podgey3874]

Ok I was not sure if a amp had video capability to view my games console and apple tv that was ill a take it it does then excellent thank you guys once again

[iaint]

Hi.
Yep. Idea is that switching input on the AVR both changes what you hear through the speakers, but also what you see on the TV.
--
Regards, Iain.

[mafj]

let's do some speculation on the original query

how about buying a second set of the same speakers and connecting speakers in pairs serially to the receiver?

any problems with that?

[iaint]

Hi.
Yes, you're likely to stuff up any hope of getting your stereo image right, and the interference between soundwaves is likely to lead to an unsatisfactory experience.
You are, however, much less likely to toast your amp or set fire to your living room...
--
Regards, Iain.

[PSM1]

Why do you want to connect speakers in series to the receiver? What are you trying to achieve by doing this?

[iaint]

Hi.
Presumably bring the impedance up to 8ohms. Almost makes me think mafj has bought a set but doesn't wish to admit it... ;-)
--
Regards, Iain.

[mafj]

iaint, I knew I will be read anyway

and at 120 per set it seemed the cheapest way to make the impedance right.

I knew there will be problem with the 4ohm impedance from the outset, though did not know how serious.

One route to go is the receiver one:
Yamaha RXV671 does 4ohm but only on front speakers. The rest of the speakers have measured 4.5/4.8ohm min impedance so it would be ok just to connect them through large 1ohm resistor (while cables come conveniently close to the radiator - opportunity to dissipate heat) .

The PC route (ideal for me as I have no TV nor receiver anyway):
get some car amplifier hook it to PC's power supply and feed it from PC's audio output

Any problems with the above options?

Any recommendation for car amplifier 5channel, 30+watt RMS/channel?

[iaint]

Hi.
Resistance does not equal impedance. Can upset the frequency response. Will also have to look carefully for a suitable resistor; can't just use a standard quarter-watt version...
Taking Infinity - Car Audio as an example of a suitable in-car amp, a quick look at the install guide suggests the unit needs a power supply capable of supporting a 75A load. I expect most PC power supplies would give up and release their magic smoke.
You could try something like Slimline 5.1 AV Amplifier : AV Amplifiers : Maplin Electronics . Not terribly expensive, and it is somewhat misleading; I see no digital inputs whatsoever, just a set of 6 line in... But it's rated down to 4 ohm speakers... So if you've 5.1 analogue out from something...
--
Regards, Iain.

[mafj]

I can see the Slimline one is cheap (can get analog from PC), I have seen some Auna and Hyundai ones as well on line with digital imput as well.

How much we are sacrificing quality here?
Are these amps much worse in terms of sound quality than £200 Onkyo?

And how about the quality of the car amps?
If I would go for the Ideal one you suggested
or for two of these
Kenwood KAC-6405 4 Channel bridgable power amplifier 4/3/2 channel configuration - KAC-6405 from Kenwood
?

I can provide 36amps, 420W, should be enough for moderate volume...

[podgey3874]

Originally Posted by PSM1

Looks like you have all you need for now.
If you give a quick sketch of the room we can advice on best speaker positioning. Otherwise do a search under Dolby speaker placement or THX speaker placement as there are lots of speaker layouts to look at.

I have looked at the Dolby lay out and that just perfect thanks
but am confused what speakers are what on the diagram shown on the Dolby speaker placement
please could you advise if it's the bookshelf speakers that sit behind me?

[podgey3874]

also i have my TV on my wall but have no idea were tp place my av receiver any tips guys
eg links to wall mounts or decent cabinets to hold my entertainment system in i can purchase links would be advantage or what to search sorry i seem so slack i just want it to look nice at the same time

[mafj]

One more question about the speaker's ohm ratings.

The speakers in question (Pure acoustics noble 5 fronts) according to the manual are rated 4ohm nominal impedance.
According to the review at home theater the measured minimal impedance is 4.35,
vide: Pure Acoustics Noble Speaker System HT Labs Measures | Home Theater

And the rest of the speakers is rated at even higher measured minimal impedances (4.5 and 4.8).


I have checked reviews of other speakers e.g. PSB Image T6 Speaker System HT Labs Measures | Home Theater (other 8ohm rated speakers gave similar results).

Nominal 8ohms, minimal 4ohms, measured 3.98Ohm.

From the other hand 4ohm rated speakers (e.g. MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL Speaker System HT Labs Measures | Home Theater) give minimal impedance of 2ohm.

Having considering all this, I conclude that Pure Acoustic Noble speakers are no worse load then PSB IMAGE T6 ones?

[podgey3874]

Originally Posted by iaint

Hi.
You'll need 1 HDMI lead to connect amp to TV, plus one HDMI lead to connect each device (bd player, PS3, etc) to amp.
If your TV does not support Audio Return Channel (ARC), you'll need a suitable lead (normally TOSLINK) to connect the TV back to the amp.
Obviously, you'll need places to put everything and mains supply for everything, antenna feed for anything (TV, sat box, freeview PVR, etc) that needs it. A surge protected extension lead is probably worthwhile.
That amp would appear to support 3 methods of dealing with your iphone. Either the dock (YDS-12), or Bluetooth wireless (YBA-10). Or a 3.5mm-3.5mm cable plugged from the iphone headphone port to the portable jack on the front...
--
Regards, Iain.

hi could you tell me were to i can find the plase to connect my toslink cable to my tv plese

[mafj]

Just an info on how I concluded the issue (without returning the speakers).

I got Onkyo TX-SR309 amp (for £159.95).
I have only connected front columns for now.
I get 100.8dB laudness at volume settings of 60 (out of 80). Measured with volume meter @1m when playing
Air 10000HZ legend. It is nice to feel those vibs in stomach and throat for a while, though my ears got hot from wearing protective headband.

I have made some longer amp burning tests (1.5 hour of Air + Metallica) at volume settings of 48 getting 91db and could not really stay myself in the room.

For real I have been only listening to Chopin for few hours using volume under 75db. Sounds great! Though I have no real comparison.


Her is my reasoning why buying (cheap) Onkyo amp was the solution

1. The speaker ohmage
The speakers are described at back as 4-8ohm, not sure what this exactly mean
Certainly, the front columns have 4.35 ohm minimum, so the speakers are not really 4Ohm (closer to 6 I suppose).

2. Onkyo amps support high current loads as described in the manual,
for compliance with EU safety rules they can only state 6+ ohm recommended.

3. They speakers costed £120 (down from £1000+) and they simply must be better then Yamaha NSP40 at least.

[iaint]

Hi.
TOSLINK cable goes into the port on the back of your TV marked "DIGITAL AUDIO OUT (OPTICAL)"; below and to the right of the aerial input. On page 6 of the manual.

Can only really remind mafj what Onkyo support say (http://www.intl.onkyo.com/support/faq/receiver.html):
---
Our amplifiers and receivers incorporate high quality materials and technical concepts to provide the best sound quality and a safe listening environment in which to enjoy music and movies for many years. But, due to CE configuration regulations, we can only guarantee safe use with minimum 6-ohm speakers. However, many speakers operate at 4 ohms, and some even drop below 4 ohms at certain frequencies. In certain circumstances, both speakers and amplifier could be seriously damaged or even destroyed. For example:

if the 4 ohm speaker's resistance drops below 4 ohms at certain frequencies;
if you are listening to the music at a very loud volume;
if you are playing extremely dynamic music (for example, CDs with high-level equalization, or recordings like "Tschaikowsky 1812" or "Charly Antolini-knock out" or other highly dynamic material).

This combination of factors can be very dangerous and should be avoided. Please contact your dealer or distributor to find out about the impedance response of your speakers (over their entire frequency range!). Unfortunately, it is our experience that some speakers do have difficulties in their impedance response. Also please note that using 50 to 60% of the maximum volume indication set with the volume will give you full clean power output of the power stage. Turning the volume up further will not increase the volume but will increase distortion which could endanger your amplifier and your speakers.
---
--
Regards, Iain.

[mafj]

Yep, I have read that note. 4ohm minimum allowed.
For front speakers minimum is 4.35, for center 4.65 for sides 4.89.

To get approx nominal (with simple formula that is typically used for drivers) I=4.35*1.15=5Ohm, for sides nominal I=4.89*1.15=5.6 Ohm, center I=4.65*1.15=5.34Ohm.
I suspect the speakers are wrongly categorized as 4Ohm.
Pity, I have no equipment to measure impedance over the entire frequency range myself.

I think I am on the safe side. Anyway, I am going to use the speakers on 20 db lower than I have stressed them.

[podgey3874]

Thanks one again found it just waiting for the brackets for my bookshelves then I should be set up and ready to go
While I here do you no anything bout TVs I have pink and green pixel dots on my screen of my Samsung ps-507hd ?

[BuToNz]

Originally Posted by podgey3874

Thanks one again found it just waiting for the brackets for my bookshelves then I should be set up and ready to go
While I here do you no anything bout TVs I have pink and green pixel dots on my screen of my Samsung ps-507hd ?

If it doesn't show the coloured pixels on the menu's try a new HDMI cable.

[podgey3874]

I hope and pray that it's going to be as simple as that but I can't see it been so simple personify

[podgey3874]

Can any body help with my 5.1 surround sound set up
Room is basically a square but tv in corner
Sofa is on back wall
What beat place to position my speakers
I ov coarse will want my centre speaker above or below tv I believe
Book case speakers on my back wall were sofa is pointed toward ears in both corners
But we're to put my floor standing ones ?

[PSM1]

Corner placement of a TV alwys makes front speakers difficult to place. The normal compromise is that the speakers end up either side of the TV and very close to it. This results in a limited width of the front soundstage but is better than trying to get the speakers further apart which then puts them significantly in front of the TV.
With the rear speakers you want them positioned and pointed so they aim just above ear height when seated (about 30cm above will be fine). You do not want them pointing directly at you. Considering your room layout a good upgrade path for the future would be some bipole/dipole speakers as rears as this will give a more diffused sound and hence a better surround experience.

[podgey3874]

Originally Posted by PSM1

Corner placement of a TV alwys makes front speakers difficult to place. The normal compromise is that the speakers end up either side of the TV and very close to it. This results in a limited width of the front soundstage but is better than trying to get the speakers further apart which then puts them significantly in front of the TV.
With the rear speakers you want them positioned and pointed so they aim just above ear height when seated (about 30cm above will be fine). You do not want them pointing directly at you. Considering your room layout a good upgrade path for the future would be some bipole/dipole speakers as rears as this will give a more diffused sound and hence a better surround experience.

correct me if am wrong so your saying place the floorstanding either side of the tv stand then in that case i dont really want to buy a corner unit do i?all thou corner unit would look the best got to keep the wife happy at the same time
and i will bear the upgrade in my mind for the future thanmks

[PSM1]

Yes, one either side of the stand or corner unit etc. but close to the TV. For surround sound corner placement of the TV should be avoided as much as possible as it will compromise the placement of the front speakers.

[podgey3874]

failing that would it be possible to have the bookshelf as my front speakers and the floorstaning as my rear?

[PSM1]

The issue with floorstanders as rears is getting them high enough to fire over the sofa and/or be at the correct height (above ear level).

[podgey3874]

Originally Posted by PSM1

The issue with floorstanders as rears is getting them high enough to fire over the sofa and/or be at the correct height (above ear level).

That does not seem too mutch of a issue for me I expected worse to my advantage I have a low sofa : )