Upgrade recommendations from "All in one" System to AV receiver

[stezie]

Hi this is my first request for advice so thankfull for any help.

What I have at present is a 6 year old Panasonic 5.1 all in one box system. I am very happy with it as it has outstanding quality of sound when playing DVDs. The system was rated at 1000RMS.. But now i need to upgrade as the system doesnt have any digital input so i dont get the sound quality from the PS3 games or blu Ray movies.

I was thinking something along the lines of the Denon AVR-1910 which is 7.1. Is this a good system to updrage to? I also have my eye on the Onkyo TX-SR607

also I was also thinking of using my current surround sound speakers as they still pack quite a punch. The front 3 speakers have a sticker on them stating 270w 6ohm. the rears are 170w 6 ohm. Could either the amp or speakers be damaged by cross matching speakers? It would be quite a saving if i could use these speakers as all i would need to get is a powered sub woofer.

thanks for any advise..

[Gorsh]

Hi
I recently upgraded from an all in one too, I went with a Denon AVR1910 and Q Acoustics 1010i 5.1 speakers (1010i were recently replaced by a new model but may still be some available at an excellent price). This is a brilliant setup and is a different world to virtually any all in one system. IMHO it would be a waste putting a 1910 with your old speakers even if they would work as you wouldn't get the benefit of the investment in the receiver.

I'm sure others will say the same - ie get an amp and speakers - you won't regret it.

Gordon

[eaglemmoomin]

Originally Posted by stezie

Hi this is my first request for advice so thankfull for any help.

What I have at present is a 6 year old Panasonic 5.1 all in one box system. I am very happy with it as it has outstanding quality of sound when playing DVDs. The system was rated at 1000RMS.. But now i need to upgrade as the system doesnt have any digital input so i dont get the sound quality from the PS3 games or blu Ray movies.

I was thinking something along the lines of the Denon AVR-1910 which is 7.1. Is this a good system to updrage to? I also have my eye on the Onkyo TX-SR607

also I was also thinking of using my current surround sound speakers as they still pack quite a punch. The front 3 speakers have a sticker on them stating 270w 6ohm. the rears are 170w 6 ohm. Could either the amp or speakers be damaged by cross matching speakers? It would be quite a saving if i could use these speakers as all i would need to get is a powered sub woofer.

thanks for any advise..

I'm not sure I believe 1000WRMS. Put it this way a 500 quid AVR will kick out around 100 to 120ish Watt RMS per channel with lowish distortion figures. Tell us the model number of your all in one and people can go look at the specs and tell you what you actually have and then an idea of its suitablility.

[PSM1]

The Denon 1910 is a great amp and as above it would be a shame to constrain your performance improvement by keeping your all in one speakers. You will need to spend £200 reasonable sub anyway so may as well pay the extra £150 and get the 1010i speakers.
Try and get a demo of the combination to see what you think about the sound.

[stezie]

sorry I forgot to post the model of the system that i have. its the "panasonic sc-ht870".

i was looking at pics of the Q Acoustics 1010i 5.1 speakers. they look tiny compared to by tallboys. I presume for the cost of them they are a great speaker. what kind of punch do you get during say explosive scenes in movies? I like having vibrations coming up through the sofa .

[JimBobVFR400]

The sub provides the punch and will easily be capable of what you want.
Setup properly you might find the seperates system to lack a little initially compared to your all-in-on, It shouldn't take much listening to realise its much better but quite a few people mistake loud, muddy bass for quality.

I've yet to hear a AIO system that didn't have the Bass turned up far too high and been clearly able to hear where the sub was, my mums Panasonic had to have the Bass level turned right down to minimum setting to sound OK. Setup up right you shouldn't be able to actually hear the sub, the key phrase here is integrated. You can always turn up the gain on the sub though if you wish

[SimonsPlasma]

The speakers from the 870 are actually pretty damned good for an all in one; a friend used to have one of these and they sounded excellent. I still have the PDF manual (downloaded it for him a while back), they are a mix of 6 and 4 ohm speakers (6 ohm on the fronts, 4 for the rest), so you'll need a receiver capable of running at 4 ohms. (The Onkyo 607 will do this just fine). They have a reasonable dynamic range (the fronts go down to 92Hz, the surrounds 89Hz, and the centre 110Hz) and an active subwoofer. I strongly suggest you ignore the naysayers and try out an amp with your existing speakers first, and plan to upgrade them in future if you feel you should.

-simon

[SimonsPlasma]

Originally Posted by stezie

It would be quite a saving if i could use these speakers as all i would need to get is a powered sub woofer.

According to the manual the subwoofer from the HT870 is an active subwoofer SB-WA870 (4 ohm 20cm cone 34Hz-220Hz) - if this is true you don't need a powered sub...

[William YZF-R1]

I confess I used my DAV-SC8 (8 ohm) speakers and active sub with a Sony receiver for about 12 months.

It worked but they have now been reunited with their dvd/surround player in the bedroom.

An active sub and acceptable speakers (ohm wise) seem to be the exception rather than the rule so yes money could be saved.

If the quoted specs are correct then Receiver choice is narrowed somewhat but doable.

[stezie]

Well in comparisson my mate bought a BOSE sysem a few months back. It cost close to 3k euro. We compared a DVD one night and noticed that the BOSE had too much volume coming from the center speaker and that the sub lacked the same punch at times. Even thought i didnt say it to him I prefer my panasonic for sound as it the spread of sound is even across the front 3 speakers. the SUB is excellent and I dont notice it drown dialog or distorting. but then on a good movie the sitting room door it rattleing away! lol Not to mention mines cost 5 times less 6 years ago. Also on Max volume I get little to none distortion, I just have to turn it down because it is get sore on the ears! lol


If I was going to buy a denon/onkyo AVR I would need to use my current speaker and save up a bit for a new decent speaker package.


My only concern is would I have the possibility of damage to either the AVR or the speakers as they may not be matched to each other.


SimonsPlasma , that is the correct number on the subwoofer but it is not a stand alone subwoofer. the only input to the system is via the dvd player. there is a control cable from the dvd player to the sub, where the amp is built in for the surround speakers and the sub itself. can I use the panasonic for just the sub? ie, remove the surround speakers, and run a cable from the preout on the AVR to the panasonic system?

[eaglemmoomin]

Originally Posted by stezie

Well in comparisson my mate bought a BOSE sysem a few months back. It cost close to 3k euro. We compared a DVD one night and noticed that the BOSE had too much volume coming from the center speaker and that the sub lacked the same punch at times. Even thought i didnt say it to him I prefer my panasonic for sound as it the spread of sound is even across the front 3 speakers. the SUB is excellent and I dont notice it drown dialog or distorting. but then on a good movie the sitting room door it rattleing away! lol Not to mention mines cost 5 times less 6 years ago. Also on Max volume I get little to none distortion, I just have to turn it down because it is get sore on the ears! lol


If I was going to buy a denon/onkyo AVR I would need to use my current speaker and save up a bit for a new decent speaker package.


My only concern is would I have the possibility of damage to either the AVR or the speakers as they may not be matched to each other.


SimonsPlasma , that is the correct number on the subwoofer but it is not a stand alone subwoofer. the only input to the system is via the dvd player. there is a control cable from the dvd player to the sub, where the amp is built in for the surround speakers and the sub itself. can I use the panasonic for just the sub? ie, remove the surround speakers, and run a cable from the preout on the AVR to the panasonic system?

Bose are rubbish mate!! Over priced all in one tat. If the speakers were 6 ohm all the way across then I'd be happier I'm slightly concerned though that its a mixture of 6ohm and 4ohm with the majority being 4 ohm. Depending upon the AVR you buy that might lead to it running quite hot as it'll be working harder to drive the 4 ohm speakers. Most easier to drive 'real' speakers sit at a nominal 8 ohms. The real monsters will be between 2 and 4ish ohms. Someone needs to have a look at the manual to see if the sub can be driven seperately I'd suspect not though as for an all in one system that would be rather against the point.

Is it an SC-HT870? Ie one of these
http://www.avland.co.uk/panasonic/scht870/scht870.htm

Front 170W x 2 (1kHz, 4ohms 10%THD)
Centre 260W (1kHz, 4ohms 10%THD)
Surround 70W x 2 (1kHz, 4ohms 10%THD)
Subwoofer 260W (100Hz, 4ohms 10%THD)
Total Power 750W

Those figures are'nt actually all that great the give away is that the measurement is at 1KHz not across 20hz to 20KHz and even then the THD is 10% (Total Harmonic Distortion). This implies they are all 4ohms so at least they would be the same load. Definately check that amp you purchase is happy with 4 ohm speakers. This is a standard ploy used by all in one systems to bump up the powah. By using low impedance speakers the amp has to work that much harder hence it uses up more power. The problem is the THD figure that should be 0.x something or better yet 0.0x across the full frequency spectrum that the AVR will be producing the fact that its struggling at 1Khz isn't great. However this is all down to the amp in your system not the speakers. I'd give it a go and possibly be a little careful with the loud pedal on your new amp. As there is no real information on the speakers sensitivity or the frequency range they actually work at.

[stezie]

i took this data from the panasonic support website these are the speaker details, im confused as the sticker on the front speakers definately said 260w 6 ohm. not 170w... these specs are looking like a foreign language to me now.


So what everyone is saying is that the lower the ohm on the speaker the harder the amp has to work to drive it, and so in turn may cause damage by overheating if it cant drive a 4 ohm speaker? is an 8 ohm speaker ideal to use? so then i should check that the amp can drive a 4 ohm speaker before i plug these speakers in?


[HT870] [Front\speakers\SB-PF921]
Type 2 way, 3 speaker system (Bass reflex)
Speaker unit(s) Impedance 6 ≠
Woofer 6.5 cm Cone type
Woofer 6.5 cm Cone type
Tweeter 6 cm Ring-shaped dome type
Input power (IEC) 170 W§ (Max)
Output sound pressure 83 dB/W (1.0 m)
Cross over frequency 7 kHz
Frequency range 92 Hz–50 kHz (j16 dB)
110 Hz–45 kHz (j10 dB)
Dimensions (WtHtD) 250k1160 (Max)/704 (Min)k247 mm
Speaker height adjustment range 1160–575 mm
[However, the height of the stand is fixed at 704 mm]
Mass 4 kg

[HT870] [Surround\speakers\SB-PS921]
Type 2 way, 2 speaker system (Bass reflex)
Speaker unit(s) Impedance 4 ≠
Woofer 6.5 cm Cone type
Tweeter 6 cm Cone type
Input power (IEC) 70 W (Max)
Output sound pressure 81 dB/W (1.0 m)
Cross over frequency 5 kHz
Frequency range 89 Hz–41 kHz (j16 dB)
100 Hz–40 kHz (j10 dB)
Dimensions (WtHtD) 250k1160 (Max)/704 (Min)k247 mm
Speaker height adjustment range 1160–575 mm
[However, the height of the stand is fixed at 704 mm]
Mass 3.6 kg

[HT870] [Center\speaker\SB-PC920]
Type 2 way, 3 speaker system (Bass reflex)
Speaker unit(s) Impedance 4 ≠
Woofer 6.5 cm Cone type
Woofer 6.5 cm Cone type
Tweeter 6 cm Ring-shaped dome type
Input power (IEC) 270 W§ (Max)
Output sound pressure 82 dB/W (1.0 m)
Cross over frequency 5 kHz
Frequency range 110 Hz–50 kHz (j16 dB)
140 Hz–45 kHz (j10 dB)
Dimensions (WtHtD) 320k97k93 mm
Mass 1.5 kg

[HT870] [Active\subwoofer\SB-WA870]
Type 1 way, 1 speaker system (Bass reflex)
Speaker unit(s) Impedance 4 ≠
Woofer 20 cm Cone type
Output sound pressure 84 dB/W (1.0 m)
Frequency range 34 Hz–220 Hz (j16 dB)
38 Hz–190 Hz (j10 dB)
Dimensions (WtHtD) 248k417k476.6 mm
Mass 16.4 kg