[dicklodge]

Originally Posted by dicklodge

I'll try to find the link to that on the S550 thread. .

Posts 613 to 618 on this thread. It is the DTS MASTR that has the problem.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/blu-r...ml#post9366935

It seems some older Onkyos had a similar problem.

[a8ch]

Yes I am running the Hurt Locker BD which has the dts-master sound track, and it is identical as with dolby true hd. As you say it is the 550 at fault from the sound of it. Thanks for enlightening me.

[dicklodge]

Originally Posted by a8ch

Yes I am running the Hurt Locker BD which has the dts-master sound track, and it is identical as with dolby true hd. As you say it is the 550 at fault from the sound of it. Thanks for enlightening me.

The S350 didn't internally decode DTS-MA when it was first released. Was there a firmware update to enable that or are you sending the bitstreamed HD audio version to the amp? The S360 added DTS MA decoding to the player.

BDP-S350 (BDPS350) : TV & Home Cinema : Sony

[filby1]

Sounds like a nice bit of kit this, sure does look very robust.

£1200 quid, making it cheaper than the 4310 and the Z7 but gets as good reviews, and makes more power on the test bench in one of those reviews than the Z7 but not the 4310. but does cost £300 les and still sports all the cool Auto calibration stuff

[a8ch]

Originally Posted by dicklodge

The S350 didn't internally decode DTS-MA when it was first released. Was there a firmware update to enable that or are you sending the bitstreamed HD audio version to the amp? The S360 added DTS MA decoding to the player.

BDP-S350 (BDPS350) : TV & Home Cinema : Sony

I was advised to update it when new from the installation instructions so could have been done then. I guess I am reticent in that way, usually adopting the `if it aint broke dont fix it' methodology. I will plug it in again later in case there may be another update sitting there.

I am even going to leave the marantz in Audessy mode (Shock, Horror ) for a few days, in order to gauge the differences with manual setup, more for my own idle curiosity really. To be fair Audessy sounds a helluva lot better with 5.1 than 2.1 which is what I originally set it up with.

I am also pleased that I can see for myself that the Audessy issue isnt affecting the way I am able to enjoy my setup. It has been frustrating to say the least, sitting here being bathed in absolutely fabulous sound, whilst reading such negative comments and opinions - just goes to show you are never to old to be radical!!. Thanks again.

[a8ch]

Originally Posted by filby1

Sounds like a nice bit of kit this, sure does look very robust.

£1200 quid, making it cheaper than the 4310 and the Z7 but gets as good reviews, and makes more power on the test bench in one of those reviews than the Z7 but not the 4310. but does cost £300 les and still sports all the cool Auto calibration stuff

Wrong thread mate me thinks!! Mind you i think the 6004 would give these a run for the money, and is a lovely piece of kit as you quite rightly imo point out

[filby1]

No dude Right thread hahaha,

Just saying the the Z7 and the Denon 4310 have the same specs but the 6004 is like after a quick look not even a bloody grand, it can be had for £680

which put's it in the V3900 but with better spec and as good as the Z7 and 4310, this is a bloody Bargin.

Shame its not HDMI 1.4 as its only just getting reviewd, so what if "What hi-fi" like it, that really dont say much. hope they do a 2010 AVR as good but 3d ready

[a8ch]

Originally Posted by filby1

No dude Right thread hahaha,

Just saying the the Z7 and the Denon 4310 have the same specs but the 6004 is like after a quick look not even a bloody grand, it can be had for £680

which put's it in the V3900 but with better spec and as good as the Z7 and 4310, this is a bloody Bargin.

Shame its not HDMI 1.4 as its only just getting reviewd, so what if "What hi-fi" like it, that really dont say much. hope they do a 2010 AVR as good but 3d ready

Which is what I have been trying to tell folk by singing its praises. I just mentioned in another post, I sit and listen to this reciever using studio designed speakers, budget at that, and the sound although not perfect is absolutely awesome. In fact so much so I am looking towards improving the fronts with the new MA Apex A10s, I am just hoping the sound is as good as the look's, because style wise they should blend in perfectly with the Jbl's.

[dicklodge]

Originally Posted by a8ch

I was advised to update it when new from the installation instructions so could have been done then. I guess I am reticent in that way, usually adopting the `if it aint broke dont fix it' methodology. I will plug it in again later in case there may be another update sitting there.

I am even going to leave the marantz in Audessy mode (Shock, Horror ) for a few days, in order to gauge the differences with manual setup, more for my own idle curiosity really. To be fair Audessy sounds a helluva lot better with 5.1 than 2.1 which is what I originally set it up with.

I am also pleased that I can see for myself that the Audessy issue isnt affecting the way I am able to enjoy my setup. It has been frustrating to say the least, sitting here being bathed in absolutely fabulous sound, whilst reading such negative comments and opinions - just goes to show you are never to old to be radical!!. Thanks again.

Well, I've just picked myself up of the floor and checked to see if it was april's Folls Day! Giving Audessy a go is very fair minded of you.

I don't follow ths Sony S350 thread but I don't think DTS-MA decoding was added with a firmware update (profile 2 was), so, if you're sending bitstream DTS-MA, the Audessy dynamic EQ shouldn't be working and if you're decoding it in the player, maybe it's sending it as DTS Core (as LPCM)? This is lossy audio, but at 1.5MB/S is still much better than DTS on DVD.

At the end of the day, if it sounds good to you, that is all that matters; non HD DTS audio, coupled with an amp you like the sound of, is better for you than lossless DTS audio on an amp that you don't like the sound of as much.

[a8ch]

Originally Posted by dicklodge

Well, I've just picked myself up of the floor and checked to see if it was april's Folls Day!

Ha Ha sorry about that

I don't follow ths Sony S350 thread but I don't think DTS-MA decoding was added with a firmware update (profile 2 was), so, if you're sending bitstream DTS-MA, the Audessy dynamic EQ shouldn't be working...........

Just checked the sony, and it was not set for direct out, now displays dts-hd master? I think a bit more tuition is required Dick.

Edit: Picture quality appears better, more detailed, sharper as well? could just be me will go back and check later shmbo is on the war path (supposed to be gardening (: )

[dicklodge]

Originally Posted by a8ch

Ha Ha sorry about that



Just checked the sony, and it was not set for direct out, now displays dts-hd master? I think a bit more tuition is required Dick.

Edit: Picture quality appears better, more detailed, sharper as well? could just be me will go back and check later shmbo is on the war path (supposed to be gardening (: )

This sticky thread could be a good place to start (though not read it myself) for tuition. It doesn't help that different BR players have different names for settings which are essentially the same.

An Attempt to Explain High Definition Audio

I wouldn't have thought the changing audio settings would have affected the picture. It's probably best to check in the evening, if that is when you viewed it last time. Different light conditions can make a big difference (to me anyway).

[Silver Serpent]

Do you think there would be much in it sound quality wise between the 6004 and 5004?

[a8ch]

Originally Posted by dicklodge

This sticky thread could be a good place to start (though not read it myself) for tuition. It doesn't help that different BR players have different names for settings which are essentially the same.

An Attempt to Explain High Definition Audio

I wouldn't have thought the changing audio settings would have affected the picture. It's probably best to check in the evening, if that is when you viewed it last time. Different light conditions can make a big difference (to me anyway).

Sorry to be a pain mate, just read the link thanks, great explanation. Regarding the PQ, thats what I was thinking too. Here is what I did, In the sonys's setup menu I changed the dts and dd ouput from mix to direct. Ever since instead of multi ch-5.1 displayed I now have DTS-mstr and dolby true HD displayed, along with a variety of other logo's illuminating.

My question is; is this detached from the audessy issue and how can I replicate the issue? to see for myself? is it just a case of trying to turn Audessy on with these modes?

[dicklodge]

Originally Posted by a8ch

Sorry to be a pain mate, just read the link thanks, great explanation. Regarding the PQ, thats what I was thinking too. Here is what I did, In the sonys's setup menu I changed the dts and dd ouput from mix to direct. Ever since instead of multi ch-5.1 displayed I now have DTS-mstr and dolby true HD displayed, along with a variety of other logo's illuminating.

My question is; is this detached from the audessy issue and how can I replicate the issue? to see for myself? is it just a case of trying to turn Audessy on with these modes?

I'm not farmiliar with Sony players, but, if you're getting DTS-mstr and Dolby true HD displayed on the amp, it sounds as if 'direct' is the setting that sends bitstream audio. So, turning Audessy on should see what happens with the Dynamic EQ.

The 'Mix' setting should, as I understand it, send LPCM. What it's doing is mixing the menu sounds etc. with the decoded Blueray HD soundtrack audio and sending it as LPCM. The soundtrack should still be in HD audio, but the menu sounds will be at the quality they were recorded. With Dolby True HD that 'should' work, but with DTS-mastr, you'll just get core DTS as the S350 can't decode the DTS-mastr.

From what i've read, decoding was originally intended to be in the BR player --- the mixing with menu sounds being one of the advantages. Maybe because BR players were slow to add full decoding for all the bitstream codecs, or wheather amp manufacturers decided they'd get a selling advantage I don't know, but the reality is all amps are capable of bitstream decoding now.

All the above is my understanding, but I may have got some of it wrong (especially with regard to the Sony BR player as I'm not farmiliar with the settings), so happy to be corrected if I have.

[a8ch]

Originally Posted by Silver Serpent

Do you think there would be much in it sound quality wise between the 6004 and 5004?

More then likely, the 6004 is built using audio grade components, which aside from 2 hdmi outputs is why I shortlisted it, being I am presently 80% music/20% HC.

[filby1]

How longs the 6004 been out for? worth me waiting for the HDMI 1.4 amps from marantz if im after 3D

Regardless of how its built or what components it uses the 6004 has more power and since i am lead to belive that Marantaz aims for 70% of the claimed power more power the better.

the power on the test bench of this 6004 amp equals that of the Yamaha Z7 of just under 70w cont at Ohms only beaten buy the denon 4310 but these amps cost a fair few £££ more

[a8ch]

Originally Posted by filby1

How longs the 6004 been out for? worth me waiting for the HDMI 1.4 amps from marantz if im after 3D

Regardless of how its built or what components it uses the 6004 has more power and since i am lead to belive that Marantaz aims for 70% of the claimed power more power the better.

the power on the test bench of this 6004 amp equals that of the Yamaha Z7 of just under 70w cont at Ohms only beaten buy the denon 4310 but these amps cost a fair few £££ more

I think it has been out since sept 09, but dont quote me on that. The PSU has been seriously upgraded, and along with the audio grade components used makes it something special for the money imo. If Marantz had of addressed the Audessy issue that concerns Dicklodge and other HC enthusiasts, I think it would have possibly become the de facto benchmark for under 2k. In my eyes I think it still could be on a sound quality basis. I was told by Marantz that Ken Ishiwata of KI fame had an input on the Dacs used FWIW.

[filby1]

The amp "sr6004" has also got a signal/noise ratio of 105db, food figure i thought

[a8ch]

I have been playing with Audessy over the weekend, in order to gain objective audio differences with music, although the same traits were apparent with movies but to a lesser degree. Results as follows:-

Audessy enabled: Pro's - Nice full sound and rich smooth presentation. Con's - Details masked, Warm nature tended to round instruments. Bass lacked definition.

Audessy disabled: Pro's - Good imaging, Instruments had nice space around them, excellent detail. Clean bass. Con's: Brighter presentatation.

In conclusion, it was nice to see that modern processing is a fair leap forward than past attempts. However personally I feel there is still more mileage to cover in order to match the sonics in `pure direct' and manual modes.

[Moolers]

Hi there,
I'm considering getting the SR6004 to match a pair of Monitor Audio RS8s and a RS-LCR (sub and rears to be added later).

The dual HDMI and cheap price are what appeal to me most.

Anyone have any idea how well the Marantz would drive the fabled "bright" Monitor Audio RS8s?

Are the current batch of Marantz receivers still considered "warm" or is that era gone?

Does the Marantz have the required power to drive the RS8 with aplomb?

I'm not interested in gimmicks and features and will probably not be using any video processing as I'm rolling with a KRP-500A and reckon that processing will be better than the "iChip" processor.

Not too concerned about Audyessy either as I'll probably do a manual calibration. HDMI control would be nice but I don't think the SR6004 supports this function, is there a possible workaround?

Any input would be greatly appriacated.

Thanks,
Moo

[a8ch]

Originally Posted by Moolers

Hi there,
I'm considering getting the SR6004 to match a pair of Monitor Audio RS8s and a RS-LCR (sub and rears to be added later).

The dual HDMI and cheap price are what appeal to me most.

Anyone have any idea how well the Marantz would drive the fabled "bright" Monitor Audio RS8s?

Are the current batch of Marantz receivers still considered "warm" or is that era gone?

Does the Marantz have the required power to drive the RS8 with aplomb?

Thanks,
Moo

I can only say the sound is pretty much neutral with my JBL's which are considered bright. I would say a listen is required. Indeed this post has come at a good time for me, as I am posting on the speakers thread later for opinions on floorstanders up to £600. I have decided to push the boat out and go 9.1 for my proposed new garage HC conversion shortly.

I have also noticed the rs8's can be had for around this so will be hot contenders.

[Moolers]

Thanks for the reply, but a demo is out of the question due to my location.
Good luck with your project.
Anyone else?

[a8ch]

Originally Posted by Moolers

Thanks for the reply, but a demo is out of the question due to my location.
Good luck with your project.
Anyone else?

If its any help I found the Marantz warmer than the Denon 2310.

[dicklodge]

Originally Posted by Moolers

Anyone else?

The opinion of people with a lot of experience with a lot of AV amps and different speakers is that the RS8s and the RS6s, to get the most out of them need, an amp of at least the Denon 3310, Yamaha 2065 etc. level. The level below amps, the Denon 2310 and Yamaha 1065 will drive them Ok but not get the most out of them.

Where the Marantz 6004 sits, I'm not sure. Also, it seems that the Marantz comes from a slightly different place than the other AV amps mentioned, in that it appears to priorotise musical performance. So, 'if' it 'technically' sits below the 3310/2065, it may still drive the RS8s well rather than OK.

As you say you can't demo, it's a case of doing masses of research to see if that is the case.

[Moolers]

Originally Posted by dicklodge

The opinion of people with a lot of experience with a lot of AV amps and different speakers is that the RS8s and the RS6s, to get the most out of them need, an amp of at least the Denon 3310, Yamaha 2065 etc. level. The level below amps, the Denon 2310 and Yamaha 1065 will drive them Ok but not get the most out of them.

Where the Marantz 6004 sits, I'm not sure. Also, it seems that the Marantz comes from a slightly different place than the other AV amps mentioned, in that it appears to priorotise musical performance. So, 'if' it 'technically' sits below the 3310/2065, it may still drive the RS8s well rather than OK.

As you say you can't demo, it's a case of doing masses of research to see if that is the case.

Thanks dicklodge, we're singing of the same hymnsheet.

I'm trying to figure out where the Marantz sits. Features like network connectivity and video processing don't interest me half as much as sound quality and correct matching of amp for my RS8s etc.

I'm under the impression that while it lacks features it makes up for it in power and sound quality (the important stuff). Surely an amp that is good musically will perform as required for movies, tv, etc.

More research required but that's nothing new.

Thanks again for your input,
Moo.

[dicklodge]

Originally Posted by Moolers

Surely an amp that is good musically will perform as required for movies, tv, etc.

You would think so. I do see coments from people who prefer a more dynamic exciting sound for movie playback, which I think is why the bright sounding amps from Onkyo are popular for movie playback. The more refined sound from an amp priorotising on music reproduction, may not give that same excitment. Having not listened to a Marantz reciever, I can't say if it falls into this category.

I'm not stating that this is the case, but maybe the Denon/Yamaha amps, still warm sounding, try to strike a balance between music quality and movie excitment?

The best solution is a separate music and movie setup but not practical for everyone.

[a8ch]

Dicklodge raises some good points, extensive research as he says, really your only answer. I have only listened to the 6004 with the denon, and my £800 pre/power stereo combo. It lost out only to the latter by a smidgin which is testament to the SQ, I will be parting with the combo shortly as a direct result.

If you read the professional reviews of the 6004 (several in this thread),and other user opinions around the web it is said to be better than the likes of 2065 and 3900 in terms of pure sound quality. Indeed Digital trends have reviewed both giving the Marantz 9.5/10 and the Yamaha 7/10 Given so much endorsement, praise, SQ pedigree and being objective, I would be swaying towards the SR6004, but again it is up to you to see for yourself and make the final decision.

Yamaha RX-V2065 Review

Good luck

[a8ch]

Just thought I would share my experiences and show a pic of my new babies eventually forming the L/R fronts of my combined Music/HC system. They are Electrostatic Hybrids (check sig. for details), sensitivity is quite low @ 85db/m, but initial matching results with the JBL's is encouraging.

The Marantz is doing a great job with them, the sound quality of the combo is examplary, an incredible three dimensional soundstage with stereo, but it is the total lack of colouration that is impressing me the most at the minute. I am not going to run Audessy setup as shmbo has insisted they are boxed away shortly until the dedicated listening/HC room is finished .

I would never have thought an av receiver, coupled to esl's more at home with high end amplification could sound so bloody good.

[shinkicker]

Some SR6004 praise and a follow up to my problem posted earlier in that I can't get 1080p working.

I had a demo of the SR6004 with the RS6 AV speaker package at Sevenoaks, and needed to look (or listen) no further - absolutely sparkling stuff. Special effects type stuff has a good sound stage, but from a films point of view what strikes most is the clarity of sound - dialogue and incidental sound is stupendous, and really brings a film to life.

Music is fantastic. I'm running audio from PS3 through a DACMagic and Source Direct, but to my ear there's not a deal of difference between that and HDMI/Stereo.

All the more annoying then that I still have my 1080p problem (post #84). (To recap, my Samsung PS50P96FD plasma TV won't take SR6004 1080p.) I've investigated further on this, in that I've tried another TV, which takes 1080p from the PS3 fine, and I've also discovered that the TV won't take upscaled output from the Wii. This leads me to believe that the issue is probably something specifically to do with the SR6004 1080p output to the Samsung TV, although I'm confused by this, as even pass through doesn't work, whereas direct connection from the PS3 to the Samsung TV is fine at 1080p - so pass through isn't really pass through?

Sevenoaks have tried Marantz customer service to find out whether a firmware upgrade might address the problem, but so far their experience of the 'service' appears to be as non-existent as most others.

[a8ch]

Hi Paul

There is obviously some handshaking problem between the two. I am surprised Sevenoaks have had a problem, I have found them excellent. I think you may have to accept your TV and the 6004 may just not be compatible. Touch wood both hdmi's work a treat with all inputs and outputs to my hitachi TV and Optoma HD65 PJ, which I realise dosnt help you. I can PM you the Marantz TS phone number if you wish, maybe a direct call may help.