[stainless-steel]

Originally Posted by AngelEyes

There are many people in the subwoofer forum that should come with a health warning

I did smile when I read ti33er's advice: suffering from distortion? The solution? 100% more subwoofer! :-)

I'm sure if you spend more than 5 minutes in that forum you'll end up with a DIY multi-kW 18" driver monster the size of a domestic chest freezer and a repeat prescription of canine tranquillisers for next door's poodle!

[ti33er]

For the record I don't even have a Sub at the moment

Been experimenting with a friend's BK Monolith and at high volumes the port chuffs away which sounds like high speed hollow chested gasping ....this is from too much air passing through the port or vent under duress.

If he wants to play things that loud he needs either a larger sealed design, or two Monoliths running at half volume, which tends to be better anyway if one can accommodate this - back in the day I had two REL Storm III subwoofers which gave a nicely balanced and controlled presentation throughout the room (with one Sub I suffered a few NULL spots at various locations)

I only experienced chuffing with XTZ 99.36 and BK Monolith through their ports at high volumes.

With EQ though, if it amplifies NULL spots by cranking up the volume there, your amplifiers could very well be running out of head room.

Best regards

Paul

[stainless-steel]

Well, I got a reply from Audyssey. It does appear that I'm overdriving the Equalizer with the AP in an attempt to recover the 9db headroom it uses for equalisation.

From Audyssey:

"The input line level of the Sound Equalizer(silver faceplate) is calibrated to 1.5 Vrms and the output will be 9 dB down from that. Turning up the volume control on the pre-pro to make up for the insertion loss is likely what is causing the problem as you are exceeding the 1.5 Vrms input limit."

Looking at the 8000AP's specs it can provide a maximum of 3V from the analogue outputs, not a great surprise that it's causing clipping when the wick is wound up and the sound track hits some big transients.

The tricky question (for me at least) is: considering that I have a power amp that puts out a fairly robust 140W into 8ohms today, what Wattage do I need to recover the 9db gain from the processor and enable me to achieve an equivalent SPL?

Anyone got any ideas?

[AngelEyes]

My understanding is that you are running out of gain not watts, so you are experiencing signal clipping not amp clipping.Can you raise all the channel levels by 5 or more dB so you have more range on the volume control?

Adam

[AngelEyes]

Ah just realised the left channel is locked right? Stupid idea IMO but the only thing I can think of us to get the newer Sound Equalizer (black fascia) which raises the output by 9dB.

Adam

[stainless-steel]

Originally Posted by AngelEyes

My understanding is that you are running out of gain not watts, so you are experiencing signal clipping not amp clipping.Can you raise all the channel levels by 5 or more dB so you have more range on the volume control?

Adam

Thanks for your reply, yes low level gain is the problem, but doesn't the gain of the power amp allow me to recover this?

Looking at the specs of my amp (Parasound HCA1205a 140W@8Ohm) the input sensitivity is:

1 V for 28.28 V, THX Reference Level; 1.2 V for full output

The next model up of the same generation is the HCA220, 220W@8Ohm the input sensitivity is:

1 V for 28.28 V, THX Reference Level; 1.5 V for full output

Doesn't that mean that driving the bigger amp with the same max input voltage gives me 220W?

Otherwise that implies that if your driving a 100W amp @ 1.5V and bought 1kW Krell you could still only get 100W out of it unless your preamp could put out 15V?

[AngelEyes]

No, if the signal is clipping that is happening before the signal is amplified, so no matter what the amp power it will still clip.

An alternative power amp with a higher input gain would be the simple answer I guess.

The AB amps I use can be set to a different input gain (just ask the manufacturer) so that is one option. It would be a big step up from Parasound too.

Another option could be a unbalanced to balanced converter which usually raises the output voltage but you may find the balanced input level on your current amp is lower anyway.

Adam

[stainless-steel]

Originally Posted by AngelEyes

No, if the signal is clipping that is happening before the signal is amplified, so no matter what the amp power it will still clip.

An alternative power amp with a higher input gain would be the simple answer I guess.

The AB amps I use can be set to a different input gain (just ask the manufacturer) so that is one option. It would be a big step up from Parasound too.

Another option could be a unbalanced to balanced converter which usually raises the output voltage but you may find the balanced input level on your current amp is lower anyway.

Adam

I'm with you on the clipping aspect, clearly I'm limited to 1.5V by the Aud. So if the max output of the AP is 3V and the max input of the Aud is 1.5V then I can only drive the Aud with 1.5V before it clips, that corresponds (I believe) to an output voltage of the Aud of 1.5V.

If the 220W amp achieves full output at 1.5V, and my current amp achieves 140W at 1.2V, doesn't driving the bigger amp with an unclipped 1.5V get me 220W now?

[AngelEyes]

I think the wattage is irrelevant as what you need is more gain. If your current amp reaches its max rated power (volume) at 1.2v then surely the bigger amp reaching it's max power at 1.5 v would mean it would make your situation worse?

Someone like Welwynick would be a better person to ask unless he had a few glasses at lunchtime like me

Adam

[stevefish69]

I got a reply back from Steve today saying he'd passed my request onto the R&D Dept. He also stated that they were waiting to hear back from head office in China regarding the 8000AP upgrade

I did however get a copy of the latest Firmware set through which was a nice bonus.

It's version 4.30 although he did say in the email that it was 4.25




Audiolab 8000AP/8200AP Main Firmware Release Notes. Date: 13.06.2012




Release_note_V4.30

Bugs fixed:

1) Noise Generator: SUB out Level corrected
2) Infra Red decode time-out
3) +5dB added to L,R & C level in Sub. This is relevant for LPCM over HDMI and
Speaker Configuration: (Front=small, Centre=None, Surround=Small, Back=1/2/N, Sub=Yes) only.


Functionality changes:

1) Extra IR codes added [ address 19]

#define IR_DISPLAY_B 32
#define IR_QSET_B 27
#define IR_STEREO _B 28
#define IR_DVD_B 25
#define IR_CD_B 24
#define IR_DAB_B 26
#define IR_MD_B 22
#define IR_DX1_B 23
#define IR_DX2_B 29
#define IR_TV_B 18
#define IR_VCR_B 20
#define IR_SAT_B 19
#define IR_AUX_B 21
#define IR_BYPASS_B 31

Note. Extra codes for HDMI1 & HDMI2 were added in version V4.01 (see below)



Release_note_V4.25

Bugs fixed:

1) HDMI AUDIO(EDID) setting not stored [8200AP]




Release_note_V4.24

Bugs fixed:

1) Improved OLED display power up routine [8200AP]
2) "Balance" screen overwrite

Functionality changes:

1) OLED display brightness levels [8200AP]

[stainless-steel]

Originally Posted by stevefish69

I got a reply back from Steve today saying he'd passed my request onto the R&D Dept. He also stated that they were waiting to hear back from head office in China regarding the 8000AP upgrade

I did however get a copy of the latest Firmware set through which was a nice bonus.

Thanks Steve, did they e-mail you the firmware or is it available for download on their site?

[stevefish69]

They emailed it to me - send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward it to you if you want

Steve

[QRIO]

Originally Posted by stevefish69

They emailed it to me - send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward it to you if you want

Steve

Hi Steve,

Can you send us a copy?

Thanks.

[Wull]

Originally Posted by stainless-steel

Thanks Steve, did they e-mail you the firmware or is it available for download on their site?

Hope this sorts out your clipping. Keep us posted...

[stevefish69]

Originally Posted by QRIO

Hi Steve,

Can you send us a copy?

Thanks.

Anyone who wants it just PM me your email address and ill forward it on. I might as well distribute it as it doesn't look like the download page on the website will ever appear back

Steve

[Mr_Orange]

Steve (IAG) told me that the downloads section on the web site is due to make a return, when the whole web site gets revamped.

I also received the firmware from him the other day, although I haven't loaded it up yet.

[Darkstar_surfer]

Can someone remind me about the issue between the 8000AP and the Tag McLaren 100X5R is.

[Mr_Orange]

The remote codes for the 8000AP (such as 5.1, HDMI1, etc) either mute or switch off amp modules.

[Darkstar_surfer]

Is there a fix or are these two units you just can't mix. The reason I ask is there was one for sale in the classifieds that I might buy if it comes back up but don't want to get a unit I can't really use sensibly and above all it must be wife friendly.

[Mr_Orange]

Not a 'fix' per se, but the latest firmware (v4.30) includes alternate remote codes for all the commands which can then be programmed into a universal remote control. The original remote control becomes redundant.

[msrhedges]

I posted a 4.30 information update on the 3rd July in the 8200AP part II forum. I have tested the alternate codes in respect to the TagMclaren 100x5r and 250x3r and made a pronto CCF for them. I then used my pronto to programme a Sony Tablet S. Please take a look at:-

Audiolab 8200AP Processor ...Part II

Hope this helps.

[ti33er]

Hi Darkstar_surfer

I'm sure the 100X5R can be made Wife-friendly provided you use a Harmony remote or the likes - just need the power-all-modules-on/off IR Code for it amongst the new firmware.

That Amplifier is very good and can be enhanced to deliver superior power output, especially if you forego the Centre channel to accommodate oversized Capacitors (by Kev'meister Green) - I just got another 100X4R which is about to be pimped to drive my bass and mids [edit] - if you are willing to make it a 100X3R, this can be made to perform much like the 250X3R (keeping the other two modules as spares as they are hard to come by)!

If you can get it, go for it ...few amplifiers are built like those these days - one need buy Bryston etc and look at the cost of those!!!!

Wish Audiolab would re-invent this amp instead of the 8200X7

[eaglemmoomin]

Pretty sure the 8200MB is very similar to a 250X3R module. There was chap on here who bought a 8200MB and fitted the amp module from it into a 250X3R, worked well by all accounts.


Ah I see he swapped the transformer on the MB module for a TAG 250R one.

[cornelid]

I have an Audiolab 8000AP without a remote control.
Now this wouldn't be a problem if I could just get my Harmony 700 to work!
Looking at the firmware version 4.3 release notes implies a fix to remote control timings, that may be the solution to my lack of Harmony!
Now my dilemma is the old "chicken and egg situation", to upgrade the firmware to get my remote to work, I need a remote to access the firmware upgrade menu.
So if anyone locally has one I could borrow for an evening or who has some how ended up with a spare then please PM me.

Any advise on getting the Harmony going would be useful including Logitech support case nos. This may help others on the forum as it seams a number of owners have resolved this issue through support, but Logitech have not updated their master database.

[Mr_Orange]

You don't need the remote control to do a firmware upgrade. You just plug in the RS232 lead and turn it on and then follow the instructions to set Flash Magic up and hit 'Go'.

[cornelid]

Originally Posted by Mr_Orange

You don't need the remote control to do a firmware upgrade. You just plug in the RS232 lead and turn it on and then follow the instructions to set Flash Magic up and hit 'Go'.

Thanks, I have the 8200AP instructions on flashing they say: "Using the 8200AP remote control enter the Q-SET menu, scroll down to the Firmware menu and select", can someone post the 8000AP flash instructions for clarity.
Don't want to brick my unit!

[cornelid]

Originally Posted by cornelid

Thanks, I have the 8200AP instructions on flashing, that say "Using the 8200AP remote control enter the Q-SET menu, scroll down to the Firmware menu and select", can someone post the 8000AP flash instructions for clarity.
Don't want to brick my unit!

Harmony achieved!

Using 8200AP instructions work, but I had to use this Device : 89C51RD2xx for my 8000AP. Looks like the instructions need updating with the "Power On" procedure instead of the Q_SET option.

NOTE: My Harmony 700 now works like a dream.

Thanks for the help.

[Thatsnotmynaim]

Originally Posted by cornelid

Harmony achieved!

Using 8200AP instructions work, but I had to use this Device : 89C51RD2xx for my 8000AP. Looks like the instructions need updating with the "Power On" procedure instead of the Q_SET option.

NOTE: My Harmony 700 now works like a dream.

Thanks for the help.

Great, which firmware did you use and where did you get it from. The main reason I got rid of the 8000ap was because I could not use it with my Logitech 900. Have been looking to go to 8200ap as it seems to work fine, but am finding it hard to justify the cost uplift over what a 8000ap is worth for the extras you get. Yes you get a few extra HDMI's, but I never needed that. I must admit the 8200ap did sound better, but a 8000ap for £400-500 or 8200ap for £1250 is a bit of a big difference for me. Sound like I could jsut pick up another 8000ap and update the firmware to give me 80-90% of what I need of the 8200ap.

[cornelid]

It was version 4.3, you can use the same firmware for 8000AP and 8200AP.

If you search for this "IAG have released firmware version 4.3 for the 8200AP processor" you'll find the user that posted it with a download link.

[cribeiro]

I have just got my Audiolab 8000AP back from servicing, they installed "the latest firmware" and tested my "subwoofer echo" issue. Well, my firmware is now 4.02 and HD0.51, so it does not look like I got the latest version...

As long as everything works as it should I could not care less... We will see, I still have to reconfigure my Harmony remote (I have been using a Denon while the Audiolab was away).