[mykyll2727]

Adam_Thanks for the response. I was about to answer that it had become clear to me when you made your post. I still appreciate your taking the time to answer me. I think I just went brain-dead there for awhile. All that floated around in my mind was bridging and bi-wiring and I had just gone blank on bi-amping._mykl

[AngelEyes]

No worries, I hope I explained it ok, Bridging can be a little confusing (for me) sometimes

[mykyll2727]

Your explanation was fine. I knew the answer but for just some reason at the time I drew a blank on it. I guess is was just old age catching up with me.


Mike

[Buckster]

Originally Posted by Quo

Well it arrived yesterday, and its still in the box, will try and sort it today, just wondering that being as I want to bi amp the front 3 speakers then let my Denon 3311ci take care of the processing and rears how to connect it all up. Also need to make a cable so AB amp turns on and off with the denon.

its a general question rather than a specific criticism (its not) of your setup - but do peoplethink that a receiver like a Denon 3311ci is of good enough quality as apre-amp to use with a high end power amplifier like this one ?

would there not be more mileage in a higher end processor and lesser power amp ?

asking as I'm tempted to go pre-power route

[Wull]

Originally Posted by Buckster

would there not be more mileage in a higher end processor and lesser power amp ?

asking as I'm tempted to go pre-power route

I think so, having added a Bryston 9Bst to a Denon AVCA1, then replacing the Denon with a Lexicon mc-1, the Lex made the biggest improvement in sound to my system.

[mykyll2727]

I know several people that feel that the quality of the pre-amp is more important then the quality of the power amp. In fact a few of them say that the pre-amp may have the greatest impact on the overall sound quality of a system than any other component.

I feel that in truth when it comes to the "chain" of an audio system it's probably the weakest link that has the most impact. But personally I'm looking to keep my processing costs down as I don't have unlimited funds and processing becomes outdated so fast. I'm put off by the idea of investing alot of money on "disposable" (due to obsolescence) components. When I made my decision to buy my amp it was with a mind of making a long term, maybe even lifetime, investment. I'm still very happy with my choice.

[Wull]

Well put.

[Moonfly]

+1 on that

[rags]

Originally Posted by Smurfin

Angeleyes bought one with standard caps, but everyone else has paid Bob to put in some upgraded caps although no-one has any idea if it makes any difference

No thats not true. I have caps that Bob told me were an upgrade but didnt charge me for them.

I obviously got something seriously special on both my 6400 and 3800. Bob gave me special treatment

[mykyll2727]

rags_I was wondering, what were the caps he installed?

Mike

[AngelEyes]

You often hear of people saying that a power amp is less of an upgrade than a Pre-amp but if you are coming from a Receiver to a Pre-amp (probably the most common route) then that jump will be big. I imagine if you ask someone who has had a few amps and Pre-amps they might have a different view?

Personally I have found quite big differences between amps, Arcam and Parasound for instance are almost polar extremes in terms of the sound and this was when I hung my amps off an Onkyo 875.

My experience with Pre-amps isn't quite as extensive but I would probably say the differences are broadly similar to those you can get with Amps.

In terms of the chain I would agree that in general terms a balance is ideal however I don't completely agree with the 'garbage in/garbage out' soundbite you often hear quoted. If you look at relative distortion figures then the opposite is more likely true; the room can be orders of magnitude worse than the speakers and they are still very much worse than the amp, Pre-amp & source.

If you look at my system though you could point out the relatively cheap sources I use and cheap speakers but like most it is a work in progress but I do feel sources have matured a lot and the jump in quality doesn't necessarily correspond with the jump in price, I also couldn't take a backwards step in functionality and UI with say a Bryston BDP-1 over my Squeezebox, or some exotic BD player over my Popcorn Hour that is not to say I don't covet improving those sources but bar the SB Transporter there isn't much at sensible money that wouldn't compromise me elsewhere.

I seem to be rambling but I guess my point was that amps can be far from a minor upgrade in some systems and any disproportionate purchase should not necessarily be interpreted as the system endgame. This is especially true whilst Bob has these magnificent Amps at such a crazy price, who can be blamed for investing in something that might seem over the top right now, we all have dreams of what our systems will be someday, right?

Adam

[AngelEyes]

Originally Posted by rags

No thats not true. I have caps that Bob told me were an upgrade but didnt charge me for them.

I obviously got something seriously special on both my 6400 and 3800. Bob gave me special treatment

I always thought you were special Rags

[rags]

Originally Posted by mykyll2727

rags_I was wondering, what were the caps he installed?

Mike

Darth Vader Vulcan caps. Simply awesome. The best sounding cap I have ever heard!

[AngelEyes]

You always have to have the best

[Moonfly]

Originally Posted by rags

Darth Vader Vulcan caps. Simply awesome. The best sounding cap I have ever heard!

Are they the ones with little cherries on top

[mykyll2727]

Originally Posted by Moonfly

Are they the ones with little cherries on top

Someone told me that those a readily available but if you want the ones with the little hats for the cherries you have to special order from the planet Riza. Delivery about 2yrs at warp 1.

[mykyll2727]

Originally Posted by AngelEyes

You often hear of people saying that a power amp is less of an upgrade than a Pre-amp but if you are coming from a Receiver to a Pre-amp (probably the most common route) then that jump will be big. I imagine if you ask someone who has had a few amps and Pre-amps they might have a different view?

Personally I have found quite big differences between amps, Arcam and Parasound for instance are almost polar extremes in terms of the sound and this was when I hung my amps off an Onkyo 875.

My experience with Pre-amps isn't quite as extensive but I would probably say the differences are broadly similar to those you can get with Amps.

In terms of the chain I would agree that in general terms a balance is ideal however I don't completely agree with the 'garbage in/garbage out' soundbite you often hear quoted. If you look at relative distortion figures then the opposite is more likely true; the room can be orders of magnitude worse than the speakers and they are still very much worse than the amp, Pre-amp & source.

If you look at my system though you could point out the relatively cheap sources I use and cheap speakers but like most it is a work in progress but I do feel sources have matured a lot and the jump in quality doesn't necessarily correspond with the jump in price, I also couldn't take a backwards step in functionality and UI with say a Bryston BDP-1 over my Squeezebox, or some exotic BD player over my Popcorn Hour that is not to say I don't covet improving those sources but bar the SB Transporter there isn't much at sensible money that wouldn't compromise me elsewhere.

I seem to be rambling but I guess my point was that amps can be far from a minor upgrade in some systems and any disproportionate purchase should not necessarily be interpreted as the system endgame. This is especially true whilst Bob has these magnificent Amps at such a crazy price, who can be blamed for investing in something that might seem over the top right now, we all have dreams of what our systems will be someday, right?

Adam

Excellent points!!

[Quo]

I will upgrade the processor in the future but wanted to take advantage of the Amp prices as they are now, no idea what processor I would go for though to be honest.

[mykyll2727]

I understand your choice completely. I'm in quite a quadry myself as to which way to go when it comes to a processor.

In the end I think the decision on where to spend one's audio dollars is as personal as one's system. It's a matter of choice.

Mike

[AngelEyes]

Yes it is just a shame that choice is much reduced nowadays.

[mykyll2727]

So true. That's why I made the decision on an AB design amp. I could've devoted most of my audio budget in a processor that will be, in a couple of years, outdated and in need of upgrading thus probably making me unhappy with it. Or I could spend most of it on an amp that'll last me and I'll be happy with for a couple of decades. Then there other factors too. There's the price to performance ratio of these amps which I feel is just amazing, coupled with the fact it's essentially custom made and comes with Bob's stellar service. All of that combined to make my decision on my amp a no-brainer.


Now if only my decision on my pre/pro route were that easy.

[chaotiker]

I'm confused about all the different models Bob is producing right now. His website also only lists the pro models. Could someone be so kind and post a current model list with specs and price?

[AngelEyes]

Here is the latest Pricing but it doesn't include the upgrades some people have had:

AB is offering amplifiers direct for 50% off retail during the pre-release phase before dealers get involved. These amplifiers come with a 1 year warranty not including shipping in either direction. Amplifiers purchased for full retail price will have a 5 year warranty. Additional warranty is available for purchase at 250.00USD per year. Below are the available models with full retail pricing, divide the cost by 2 for the limited time offer, some models are not available for purchase yet.

Mono
11000, 1 x 1000 watts, 5000.00USD
1800, 1 x 800 watts, 4500.00USD
1600, 1 x 600 watts, 4000.00USD
1500, 1 x 500 watts, 3500.00USD


2 channels
2300, 2 x 300 watts, 3000.00USD
2400, 2 x 400 watts, 4000.00USD
2500, 2 x 500 watts, 4500.00USD
2600, 2 x 600 watts, 5000.00USD
2800, 2 x 800 watts, 6000.00USD

3 channels
3300, 3 x 300 watts, 4000.00USD
3400, 3 x 400 watts, 4500.00USD
3500, 3 x 500 watts, 5000.00USD
3600, 3 x 600 watts, 6000.00USD
3800, 3 x 800 watts, 7000.00USD

4 channels
4200, 4 x 200 watts, 4000.00USD
4300, 4 x 300 watts, 5000.00USD
4400, 4 x 400 watts, 6000.00USD
4500, 4 x 500 watts, 7000.00USD

5 channels
5200, 5 x 200 watts, 4500.00USD
5300, 5 x 300 watts, 5500.00USD
5400, 5 x 400 watts, 6500.00USD
5500, 5 x 500 watts, 7500.00USD

6 channels
6200, 6 x 200 watts, 5000.00USD
6300, 6 x 300 watts, 6000.00USD
6400, 6 x 400 watts, 7000.00USD
6500, 6 x 500 watts, 8000.00USD

All power ratings are at 8 ohms all channels driven continuous sine wave
4 ohm rating add 50% more to the 8 ohm rating

[AngelEyes]

I also found this Spec sheet for the 6400 but not sure how up to date it is. I know my own 6400 measured quite a bit higher than the 'official' rating so I would expect the other specs to be similarly modest:

• Six channel amplifier
• 400w per channel @ 8 ohms
• 600w per channel @ 4 ohms
• 750w per channel @ 2 ohms
• 1200w per channel bridged @ 8 ohms
• 1500w per channel bridged @ 4 ohms
• All channels driven
• Three independent power supplies
• Balanced XLR & gold RCA inputs
• Bridge switches
• Star Point Grounding w/Ground lift switch
• Dual temperature activated fan
• Selectable input sensitivity
• "Soft Clip" circuitry
• 4.5-rack space
• 12V trigger
• Removable IEC power cord
• Optional power supply cap upgrade

Additional Features:
• Frequency Response: +/- 0.25dB 20Hz - 20kHz
• Distortion: No more than 0.05%THD or IM, 0.01W to rated output, 20Hz-20kHz (Typically 0.01%)
• Hum & Noise: 120dB below rated output (unweighted, 20kHz bandwidth)
• Input Sensitivity: 2.0VRMS for rated output (selectable)
• Input Impeadance, 15K balanced, 30K un-balanced
• Input Connectors: Gold RCA inputs, XLR (Balanced)
• Output Connectors: Gold Binding posts
• Controls & Indicators
(Front Panel) Ac mains power switch (breaker), power on LED,
(Rear Panel) ground lift switch, stereo/bridge switches per each two channels
• Damping Factor: 1100:1 @ 20Hz, 1000:1 @ 1kHz
• Dynamic Headroom 3.5db
• Slew Rate: Closed-loop response greater than 40V/us
• Crosstalk: -80dB
• Mainframe Power Supply: Toroidal transformer, 3 separate power supplies w/ 6ea 15k/uf capacitors
• Turn-On Delay: 3 seconds
• Power Requirements:
AC Mains 100-240VAC50/60Hz ( factory wired ) 20A/30A 100-120VAC, 15/20A 220-240VAC recommended
• Thermal Protection: Each channels thermal sensor activates channel shutdown if an over-heating condition exists.
• DC Protection: DC sensor activates channel shutdown if DC condition exists.
• Heatsink and Cooling:
3 State fan, off-low-high two speed cooling fan utilizing heatsink extrusions,
Quiescent amplifier ON condition has no fan. Fans do not engage until heavy usage conditions.
• Construction: 14-gauge cold-rolled steel with 3/16" heavy aluminum front panel.
• Dimensions: 8.5” height with rubber feet, 17.25” width, 17” depth overall
• Rack mount ears available for purchase separately for standard 19”
• Shipping Weight 76lbs

[mykyll2727]

I had an online chat with Bob over the weekend and he wrote that he knew he needed to update the website. Also he wrote me and said there will be a SE model in the Cinema Line and that he will be releasing all of the particulars in the next few weeks.

[AngelEyes]

SE you say? It all sounds very familiar, I just can't quite put my finger on it... oh wait :

(Steve, this one is for you )

[mykyll2727]

Adam_ And here I thought I was letting everyone in on a scoop. Should've known you'd be not only the first to know but the first to have one. Lucky guy!!!

For some reason I'm unable to view your pics

[AngelEyes]

Originally Posted by mykyll2727

Adam_ And here I thought I was letting everyone in on a scoop. Should've known you'd be not only the first to know but the first to have one. Lucky guy!!!

For some reason I'm unable to view your pics

LOL don't be daft, it is great to share the excitement over Bob's creations, I was just keeping quiet so it would have the maximum crushing effect on Steve and his very average capacitors .

I'll try and fix the photos which strangely enough look fine here.

Adam

[Moonfly]

Originally Posted by AngelEyes

SE you say? It all sounds very familiar, I just can't quite put my finger on it... oh wait :


image





image




(Steve, this one is for you ) image





image





image

Pics arent showing for me

[AngelEyes]

Stupid forum, how about now? Should show embedded pics and thumbs at bottom?