[KelvinS1965]

I thought I'd better start a separate thread rather than drag a certain BluRay thread completely off topic.

I'm looking at various upgrade options and one of them is to change my Denon 2808 after it was suggested it may be limiting my sound. I currently use an Arcam P90/3 via the 2808's preouts for the front three PMCs and the built in power stage for the M&K surrounds.

If I was to find a suitable Pre-processor (HDMI inputs with HD decoding or at least PCM via HDMI) I was wondering if would get much improvement using my P90/3 and a spare NAD 350 stereo amp (with power amp inputs) to run a 5.1 setup? Eventually I would be looking for something lke an Arcam P1000 7 channel amp and bigger front PMC speakers, so it would be an interim step, though it could be some time before I can upgrade the power amp so it would have to be a usuable setup in the meantime.

I was considering the Arcam AVR500 but lack of pre outs started this whole alternative train of thought.

[Mr_Sukebe]

I've never heard a single AV receiver that I felt could do music, though being fair, I've never used anything more expensive than an Onkyo 875.

I switched to a processor last year and more recently changed to the Meridian I use now. Both have been used with a pair of stereo amps (see my sig). In my opinion, sounds great, and is massively better than the Onk.

[AndrewH13]

Originally Posted by Mr_Sukebe

I've never heard a single AV receiver that I felt could do music, though being fair, I've never used anything more expensive than an Onkyo 875.

You never heard the Tag McLaren AV32 then! (especially with its room correction adjustable on a laptop)

[Mark.Yudkin]

Since you mention the AVR500, I adduce that the AVR600 or AV888 are over your budget. The Audiolab 8000AP (has LPCM over HDMI) may fit the bill for an affordable processor with decent sound (Audiolab = Tag McLaren).

[Nic Rhodes]

Kelvin

this is where you may find out that what you want in your budget may not yet exist! This may be especially relevant for HDMI devices. Personally for SPDIF duties I use great old gear (and not as expensive as many think) for 'premium performance. For HDMI duties I have a 'make do' solution for now but this will be changed when suitable items appear. I also use analogue for this from appropriate players.

Your amps are great solution now with separates for the front and integrated for the rear. Replacing the internals with a separete stereo amp would work fine with a processor. In fact until I went fully 1037 I used a 5 channel Tag amp to biamp my rears (Kef Ref 4.2) in a similar arrangement. It works but is fussy re number of boxes so is not for everyone but was fine for me and fine technically.

All I would say is not too rush into anything here. You have lived happily with your current system and knowing it's limitation is a good place to be, so long as you still enjoy watching your films. The need to change may then becomes much less and a long home demo will allow you to really change for the better, rather than make that expensive sideways move so many do in the desire to get the latest box or feature that few use. Do the basics really well and compromise if necessary on the nice to haves. Don't rush into anything though without a long demo in your room.

[KelvinS1965]

Thanks for the replies....yes, I'd already realised that what I'm looking for doesn't seem to be available in my price range. Even allowing for the short/medium term option of using existing amplifiers (I also remembered I have a spare NAD 310 amp in the loft that would do for the surround rears, so I wouldn't lose any channels).

The Audio Lab option might be worth me reading up on, but a good home demo seems to be the only way forward for me (I did this when I upgraded from my Panasonic AE3000 to the HD350). I need to have a chat with my local AV dealer to see what options there are regarding home demos. I was also considering the Oppo player (how I got into the other thread I refered to) because of it's SACD and DVD-Audio capabilities, but it would perform all decoding of HD also, so meaning that I'd only need a processor capable of accepting LPCM. I'm not bothered about things like Audyssey (mine is turned off) and I have a separate BFD for EQing my subwoofer, to tame a couple of peaks. In the meantime my BDP-S350 decodes most (if not all?) of the HD formats internally should I need that option.

Looks like I've found another section of these forums to spend my time in.

[Bossk128]

I'm in a similar position after I upgrade my speakers.....

I think currently it's between the 8000AP and the unreleased Emotive.

The 8000AP rarely comes up on Ebay, which makes me think it's pretty good.

[paulst10]

I would wait it out also if you want the latest HD decoding at a more reasonable price. With the Parasound HDP70 & Emotiva UMC1 just around the corner, it would be rude not wait, especially with the UMC1's price tag of $700 which will probably work out closer to £700 after importing, but that's still cheaper than pretty much everything else

Going by the sheer devotion Emotiva have from their customers in the US, they must release very good products, and I certainly plan to invest in one early next year

[eaglemmoomin]

Originally Posted by AndrewH13

You never heard the Tag McLaren AV32 then! (especially with its room correction adjustable on a laptop)

Thats a processor/preamp is it not!

[Mr_Orange]

Originally Posted by AndrewH13

You never heard the Tag McLaren AV32 then! (especially with its room correction adjustable on a laptop)

The AV32R is not a receiver, it's a processor .

[alandbush]

Originally Posted by KelvinS1965

The Audio Lab option might be worth me reading up on, but a good home demo seems to be the only way forward for me (I did this when I upgraded from my Panasonic AE3000 to the HD350). I need to have a chat with my local AV dealer to see what options there are regarding home demos.

I was able to arrange a home demo of the Audiolab by contacting Audiolab directly. They delivered it to a local Audiolab dealer, but not 8000AP stockist, for me to collect. However, I think they would have delivered directly if I had requested.

Although it never happened due to changed circumstances, I was also arranging a home demo of the Nuforce AVP17. Very similar to the 8000AP in its approach, i.e. sound over features, and in its slimline design with a similar price tag.

[AndrewH13]

Originally Posted by Mr_Orange

The AV32R is not a receiver, it's a processor .

Take your point, but still an AV processor thats very good with music, which the majority are not.

[stevefish69]

Kelvin - If you get stuck for a home demo of the Audiolab i may be able to assist if your dealer can't help out and bring mine over for an afternoon of fun.

You are also always welcome to pop over if you are ever passing West Drayton and need to blow the cobwebbs off ya eardrums for a demo at my place

[KelvinS1965]

Thanks for the kind offer Steve, I'm still juggling upgrade options at the moment:

1. Change my Denon for a Pre-pro with a longer term view to get a 'proper' multichannel amp later. Not sure if I would gain the full benefit using my DB1+ pair in a poor position (see also below).

2. Change my front left and right PMC DB1+ speakers as I have them jammed in the corners to clear my screen. Wall mounted PMC Wafer 2s below the screen are a possiblity. I have a plan to add black velvet 'blinds' to replace my 'Bat Tent' when watching films and they would block the DB1+s more than my current thin black cotton version. They would also end up just within a 16:9 portion of my screen (albeit below), which seems to be recommended positioning from what I've since read.

3. Non audio upgrade (so little interest in this neck of the woods ) is to find a good quality secondhand anamorphic lens.

Trouble is all these upgrades are mostly mutually exclusive, though perhaps going for PMC Wafer 1s (less my resold DB1+s) and the Audiolab 8000 might be an option. I could then upgrade to Wafer 2 for the fronts later and the Wafer 1s would move to be surrounds, power amp as and when one turns up in the classifieds.

I've got to deceide which is the most important to me (hence why I'm asking questions in various parts of the forums).

[Apollo72]

Would you consider a change in blu ray player so that it has 5.1/7.1 outputs and get a arcam av9 processor?

[KelvinS1965]

It had crossed my mind, as I'd imagine an AV9 should be pretty reasonably priced due to the lack of HDMI inputs. It wouldn't cost too much to get a 7.1 output BD player either (shame the Oppo has been cancelled/postponed).

I think I need to work out which area of my system needs improvement to suit my tastes: I'm maybe looking to improve something I'm already pretty happy with, but choosing new hardware is part of the fun of AV.

[Welwynnick]

Originally Posted by KelvinS1965

It had crossed my mind, as I'd imagine an AV9 should be pretty reasonably priced due to the lack of HDMI inputs. It wouldn't cost too much to get a 7.1 output BD player either (shame the Oppo has been cancelled/postponed).

The AV8 doesn't have HDMI inputs, but the AV9 does - lots of them - though they are all video-only of course. The switching is still a plus point, even if the BD audio is only handled by the 7.1 analogue inputs. Yes, they're very reasonably priced these days - last one I saw went for £700, and its way better than any receiver. Well-built; and looks good, too.

Nick

[Apollo72]

The AV9 is superb for both movies and stereo. On board processing for plain DD and DTS is also brilliant. Has 5 HDMI inputs and is fine for me with sky HD, blu ray and PS3. I happy to have the PS3 output plain DD/DTS via optical - sounds good to me.

I tried the AVR700 pre-amp processor and I thought that sounded good too. That shouldn't be expensive to buy at the moment?

[Welwynnick]

Originally Posted by alandbush

I was able to arrange a home demo of the Audiolab by contacting Audiolab directly. They delivered it to a local Audiolab dealer, but not 8000AP stockist, for me to collect. However, I think they would have delivered directly if I had requested.

Thats very interesting indeed - I'd love to get my hands on one - how did you arrange that?

Nick

[alandbush]

Originally Posted by welwynnick

Thats very interesting indeed - I'd love to get my hands on one - how did you arrange that?

Nick

I think I simply rang the UK number listed on the Audiolab website and enquired about arranging a Home demo. The message was passed on to an Area Sales manager, whose name I have sadly forgotten, who rang back within hours. We discussed options and I chose to have a unit delivered to a local Audiolab dealer.

[Welwynnick]

Originally Posted by alandbush

I think I simply rang the UK number listed on the Audiolab website and enquired about arranging a Home demo. The message was passed on to an Area Sales manager, whose name I have sadly forgotten, who rang back within hours. We discussed options and I chose to have a unit delivered to a local Audiolab dealer.

Thanks Alan, I think I'll give that a go!

Nick

[KelvinS1965]

I picked up an Arcam P1000 in the classifieds (cheap enough to resell should it be a sideways step). It means for now I have to carry on using my Denon 2808 as a preamp.

However I have realised that I can wind the clocks back 10 years to when I was an analogue audio electronics Engineer: I'm thinking of making a small 7.1 passive preamp/switch to either allow my 2808 to pass to the P1000 inputs or (using the 12 volt triggers on the 2808) to engergise a relay that will allow a direct connection from some new BluRay player's 7.1 analogue outputs. As I tend to watch films at a set level on the Denon (-15db), then I could hard wire resistors to give this same signal level, creating almost a 'straight wire with(out) gain' into the P1000 for best quality BluRay or stereo CD use at fixed level.

The only negative I can think of (apart from the fixed gain) is lots of cables as I'd need to double up on analogue cables from the 2808 to the 'box' and also from the player to the 'box', then from the box to the P1000. All I'd need to do is find a BluRay player with good analogue outputs, that would hopefully also serve as a quality CD player.

Or maybe it's late and I'm rambling........

[Nic Rhodes]

I occasinally use a multiway switch via a resisor network. Works well but cables are a nightmare (and even cheap ones will cost quite a bit when you add them all up). It does have a tendency, depeding on level, to highlight problems with high C cables and with the output impredence of the driving electronics. I last used it with the Oppo which worked well.

[KelvinS1965]

Thanks Nic, I'm glad someone knew what I was rambling about. I figured the cables would be a nightmare, but I'll need 16 cables anyway if I buy an older Processor that only takes 7.1 analogue inputs....what's another 8 after that?