HDTV now broadcasting via Sat in Europe! [Archive]

PaulB

09-09-2003, 5:13 PM

"I hope I'm wrong but 1080 looks to be more an advert to attract potential backers and as such january 2004 looks to be somewhat implausible".

Thats my quote from a few months back. If you listen carefully you'll be able to hear me (happily) eating my hat :zonked:

What are you fellas doing to get the signal to your displays? I now see that Kramer has a Sat card in his PC which explains things but I wouldn't have thought that you could get a Hi-Def signal/datastream out of the Nokia? RS232?

I'm intrigued - did some sat watching a few years back but lost interest for obvious reasons when I moved in to flat. Got a house with a large garden and stacks of room for a dish plus have a nice view of the E-S-W horizon so......!
Paul

Chris Muriel

09-09-2003, 9:05 PM

It's like buses , 2 lots at once:

I got Euro1080 on Astra 19E 12168V, 27500, 3/4 PIDs 308/256/8190 (also French audio on 257).

I also got USA HDNET on 43 W.
2 channels there on 12536H , 28080 3/4.
1 has PIDs 33/36, the other 49/52 .

Equipment , Broadlogic BL2030 and Twinhan VP1020 cards.
Could also read the Transport Stream (with TSReader s/ware).

Both transmissions were 1080i. The USA ones had AC3 audio
(384 kbps datarate, 48 KHz sample rate).
Video datarates were about 23.4 Mbps
WM9 was flagged up in the stream but not transmitted.

Looked good on a 21-inch PC montor.

After a couple of hours a reboot of ther PC was required - I guess it choked on all the data.
PC is a 2 GHz P4, 512MB RAM, ATI Radeon 8500LE/128 AGP video card.
I have a couple of TSreader screengrabs if anyone is interested.

S/ware was Hans' DVBviewer (www.dvbapps.com).
TS Reader from Rod Hewitt (a British friend of mine now in Maryland) - www.coolstf.com/tsreader.

Chris Muriel, Satellite DX enthusiast & member of USA satforums
(www.satforums.com). Manchester, UK

Luc

09-09-2003, 10:46 PM

W00t. I think that's the only word that sums up my feelings. Euro2004 Portugal in HD? Maybe, just maybe...

mattmarsden

10-09-2003, 7:50 AM

You can get HDNET?

That is amazing! Does this mean we can get HDNET films? Can we use American equipment to receive it?

mattmarsden

10-09-2003, 7:59 AM

Is HD NET encrypted? Could we use American satellite PC cards and then archive to DVHS?

Gordon @ Convergent AV

10-09-2003, 9:40 AM

Doubt HD NET is encrypted. This is GREAT!

Chris I expect you just got bombarded with mail!

Gordon

mattmarsden

10-09-2003, 9:43 AM

But Gordon, HD NET do sporting events, and a movie channel.

What dish do we need?

mattmarsden

10-09-2003, 9:45 AM

I assume we are talking about www.hd.net ?

Gordon @ Convergent AV

10-09-2003, 10:11 AM

Yes Matt but the owner of HDNET thinks copy protection is a bad thing and stifles the spreadof the HD word.....

HD NET films are mostly poor upscaled SD broadcasts. The good stuff is their own original HD video source content like the concerts, travelogues and Bikini Destinations. They were at CEDIA filming and if we hurry up you might even see me and X3ELS in the Runco room, haha(boy did we look stupid!)

Gordon

mattmarsden

10-09-2003, 10:31 AM

Right, I needs me a big satellite dish and some computer hardware. I guess there is no reason that we can't archive the MPEG2 transport to DVHS, and play it on a DVHS machine such as the JVC 30K is there?

howesey

10-09-2003, 5:47 PM

"HDTV now broadcasting via Sat in Europe!".. but won't be coming to the UK. Sorry guys, we have no need for it in the UK. Yes you can leach off French, German and Finnish HDTV stations but we won't be having it properly in the UK.

Kramer

10-09-2003, 5:55 PM

Originally posted by howesey
"HDTV now broadcasting via Sat in Europe!".. but won't be coming to the UK.

:confused: Astra 19.2's signal is available in the UK :p

Sorry guys, we have no need for it in the UK. Yes you can leach off French, German and Finnish HDTV stations but we won't be having it properly in the UK. [/B]

Leech? I've no idea what you're talking about as EuroHDTV is a European HDTV channel. Last time I checked, the UK was in Europe :grin:

As for "having no need for it" - speak for yourself. It's a great development as far as I'm concerned.

It's a big :smashin: for EuroHDTV.

BrianCurran

10-09-2003, 9:22 PM

Excellent!!!

HDNET and Euro1080, this has to be the best thing since decent software DVD players were released.

What kit do I need to get?

Kramer

10-09-2003, 9:29 PM

Originally posted by BrianCurran
What kit do I need to get?

Well if you're thinking of PC DVB, you'll need some serious machinery :)

My PC (2.5gHz AMD) is about as fast/powerful as they come but > 30mbp/s brings it to it's knees. It can run HD from the hard disc all day & not complain, but HD from the DVB card is causing it loads of problems.

I'm trying to compile a graph to allow for different filters & get the graphics card (9800 Pro) to take some of the workload.

Still worth it though :)

Kramer

10-09-2003, 9:36 PM

Anyone interested in some screen captures?

Only captured @ 1280x1024 & .jpg compression kills the quality during the upload, but here you go.

Pic 1. (http://www.kramer.utvinternet.com/euro/hdtv1.jpg)
Pic 2. (http://www.kramer.utvinternet.com/euro/hdtv2.jpg)
Pic 3. (http://www.kramer.utvinternet.com/euro/hdtv3.jpg)

Going to fire up my PJ in a while (HS10, 1366x768) to see what it looks like. It loves hi-def :grin:

BrianCurran

10-09-2003, 9:37 PM

P4 2.667 @ 3.01 GHz
512mb PC2700 ram
Radeon 9500 128mb non pro (running soft mod)

Any use?

SeaneyC

10-09-2003, 10:49 PM

This IS very exciting!

Chris Muriel

10-09-2003, 11:00 PM

I have some HD Transport stream screengrabs but not sure how to attach the JPG files to a post and don't have a website to place them on.

Chris Muriel, Manchester.

SeaneyC

10-09-2003, 11:09 PM

If you e-mail them to me Chris i can host them for you.

Sean

Kramer

11-09-2003, 12:47 AM

It's the best I could manage for now, but here's a 2 second clip (.mpg) from EuroHDTV.

Bloody over 5 megs :eek:

At least it shows the resolution/bitrate & will give anyone with a capable display an idea of the quality.

Clip (http://www.kramer.utvinternet.com/euro/mpeg2hd.mpg).

:smoke:

RASH PATEL

11-09-2003, 9:47 AM

Hi Kramer,

My new HTPC will have:

512 MB Ram
P4 3.0 ghz/800 CPU
Radeon 9600 non-pro
Any good for HD?

Also you refer to DVB card,please could you tell me what make/
where I can source this from, Do you have a Web address?

Many Thanks,

Regards,

Rash

AndyX

11-09-2003, 11:16 AM

OK, I am using a DVB-S card on an Athlon 2700 and have locked into tho HDTV1080 channel. I am getting sound but no picture. If I record I get sound and picture, but the picture is breaking up.
I have tried a number of software decoders including windows media player end Elecard to decode the recordings.

I have also tried Progdvb in hardware and software decoding. The software decoder does manage EBU 4:2:2 broadcasts.

Could it be that the stream of information is overloading the card? I know that some 4:2:2 broadcasts have too fast a rate for my card to decode the picture fast enough?

AndyX

11-09-2003, 12:11 PM

I just noticed that one of the Astra HD channels is headed WMF9.
I wonder if this is Microsoft compressed HD as per the HD clips you can download from the Microsoft website and play in Windows Media Player version 9.

I am not sure how to connect to this stream yet.

Chris Muriel

11-09-2003, 4:54 PM

When I checked (2 days ago) the WM9 placeholder was there with a PID allocated but my TSReader indicated that there was no data against the WM9 PID.

Both my BL2030 (Broadlogic data card) and Twinhan VP-1020 get both picture and sound on a P4 2 GHz, 512 MB RAM and Radeon
8500LE (128MB) system.
S/ware is Hans Van Oostrom's DVBviewer with elecard codec.
See www.dvbapps.com for more detail of cards , links and s/ware.

I also have a BLSA add-on tio the BL card (Ku-band spectrum analyser) See http://www.moonglow.net/tvro/blsa.html
for details of this project - you have to build it yourself and modify the BL card.
See ebay.com (USA) for actual Broadlogic cards and avoid any "-6" variants (BL2030-6 or -006).

I have had both cards for over a year - but no HDTV until this week.
After a varying period (usually well over an hour, sometimes > 2hours) the PC does need to be rebooted to eliminate stuttering/Frame-dropping and jerky audio.
Sometimes switching from using the TH card to the BL card (closing & reopening DVBapps at the same time) or vice versa brings full performance back.
Sean should be posting with links to my Transport Stream grabs later today.

Chris Muriel, (mad satellite link/feeds huuter & member of USA Satforums http://www.satforums.com/) Manchester.

Chris Muriel

11-09-2003, 6:02 PM

There is now data streaming on PID 1521 (0x05f1 hex) at about 7.45 Mbps.
I have to go out (entertaining 2 USA video compression experts from 1 of our sites) so I can't run any tests.
I found a possible TCP address in there of 228.0.0.84.
No time to try and do anything with the stream - although I am able to download the packets to HD as a binary file ok.

If anyone wants to try to make of there, please post any positive results.

Chris Muriel, Manchester.

SeaneyC

11-09-2003, 7:37 PM

Chris' blurb:

HDTVts.jpg is for the Euro1080 Astra transmission.

43WhdtvTS.jpg is from PAS3R satellite at 43 degrees West ;

It shows a 2-channel HDTV multiplex from HDNET , who supply various operators in the USA.

( receive parameters : 12536H 28080 ¾ , PIDs 49/52 and 33/36)

On the latter one, the Tsreader actually managed 2 mini-screengrabs (which it automatically tries to do for each clear channel in a mux)

Details of TSReader are at www.coolstf.com/tsreader - the author is a British friend of mine, now based in Maryland.

(so I have a $300 fully registered copy ).

Details of the 2 PCI cards I used are at www.dvbapps.com (again Hans van Oostrom is a friend).

Screenshot 1 (http://www.aqol11.dsl.pipex.com/pics/43WhdtvTS.jpg)

Screenshot 2 (http://www.aqol11.dsl.pipex.com/pics/HDTVts.jpg)

SeaneyC

13-09-2003, 1:47 AM

More from Chris:

Europic was a concert on EURO1080

I notice the data on the WM9 stream has gone again (was there at 6PM tonight though).

Also another TS grab from 43W tonight and a screengrab from the ball game on 43W.

Screenshot 1 (http://www.aqol11.dsl.pipex.com/pics/43Whdnetgame.jpg)
Screenshot 2 (http://www.aqol11.dsl.pipex.com/pics/43Wts2.jpg)
Screenshot 3 (http://www.aqol11.dsl.pipex.com/pics/Europic.jpg)

sheggsl

18-09-2003, 12:42 PM

Now that IBC is over, is anyone still receiving HDNet, need to know whether it is an ongoing broadcast, before forking out on additional equipment

Chris Muriel

18-09-2003, 6:06 PM

HDNET on PAS3R at 43W ceased 2 days ago - when IBC finsihed in Amsterdam.
Incidentally ,t heir FTA feeds in the USA are about to start encrypting .
The Euro1080 MPEG stream (Astra 19.2E) also stopped yesterday although their WM9 tests continue at present.

Chris Muriel, Manchester.

Chris Muriel

22-09-2003, 7:11 PM

As of this Monday 8 PM, they're back (the WM9 stream never disappeared anyway).

Chris Muriel, Manchester.

BrianCurran

22-09-2003, 8:24 PM

:clap:

mattmarsden

24-09-2003, 9:33 AM

Will we get HD NET back?

Chris Muriel

24-09-2003, 10:45 AM

I don't think we'll get HDNET back ; that was purely for IBC.
If and when there are real HDTV services in Europe via sat , cable and terrestrial (as is the case in the USA) , then HDNET would be hoping to participate in providing links for such services as tjhey do over there.

Chris Muriel, Manchester.

Rittberg

12-10-2003, 7:02 AM

Hi,

Can someone confirm the following findings, Is this a new HiDef channel ?:

--- Atlantic Bird 1: http://www.lyngsat.com/ab1.shtml
Eutelsat has started testing on 11061 H, HD, clear, SR 30929, FEC 2/3,
SID 2, PIDs 33/36.

Chris Muriel

14-10-2003, 5:51 PM

Correct. Had a look at it with my transport stream reader also:

Just back from 17 days holiday in Canada and find....
As well as Euro1080 on Astra 19 degrees East there is HDTV om
the Atlantic Gate satellite at 12.5 degrees West :
11061H , 30938, 2/3. VPID=33, APID=36
Currently the videostream is about 19 Mbps, 1920x1080i resolution.

NB: Euro1080 is not sending a WM9 stream at present.
It's sending 2 channels ; 1 is HDTV , the other colour bars in SD.

Well spotted on the 12.5 West channel.

Chris Muriel, Manchester.

Muf

22-10-2003, 8:48 PM

Lots of new clips on Euro 1080.
A lot of more suitable, brightly lit and outdoor clips.

Jim

cosmic023

20-11-2003, 8:14 PM

Hi All,

Well i'm excited after reading most of the posts here about HDTV in Europe.

But as i've been reading you need a fast PC to display HDTV, what is the required spec. suitable to play / display such a format ??

Maybe have a sticky / FAQ at the top of the forum, for newbies and HDTV ??

I did download the file Kramer put up to download, and my PC choked on the data. Seems like a faster PC is required..........

What's the minimum spec. of a PC required to play such files, or are we talking 2gig+ PC's ??

Cheers

Cosmic023

Muf

27-11-2003, 9:28 PM

EURO 1080 home page updated today.

Jan program info.

Jim

helipilot

29-11-2003, 7:49 PM

Looks like "Event channel" will start on January 1st (at your local cinema).

No more info on "Main channel" start date at the moment.

Muf

30-11-2003, 5:53 PM

The Euro 1080 home page has changed again today, the January program details have disapeared. Maybe they are going to give us some of those concerts on the main channel.

Jim

Muf

13-12-2003, 4:09 PM

DVB viewer version 2.0 released today.
Built in HD support and lots of new features.
Have not found time to play with it yet.

Jim.

Kramer

13-12-2003, 6:53 PM

Originally posted by Muf
DVB viewer version 2.0 released today.

Will check it out.

Cheers ;)

Muf

22-12-2003, 4:46 PM

Euro1080 home page just updated today (the banner at the top seems to be advertising tickets for an event cinema somewhere)
Any language scholars on this forum?

Jim

Kramer

22-12-2003, 5:01 PM

The new High Definition transmitter Euro1080 twine out of with one stunt! Not ever previously went within EUROPE such event within High Definition TV straight worn wide wing brought. The Wiener Philharmonic realm under the leadership of Nicotine Harnoncourt and the concerto realm yet one halve centennial well-known when being the utmost popular within one's style. Original is well-being who the sentiment within the cinemascope sore strong the reële survive seize thanks to High Definition beeldtechnologie and surrogate sound. Towards the start with the new TV - transmitter Euro1080 worn 1 January 2004, may we with spite suppose who the Nieuwjaarsconcert pitcher turn bekeken within cinemascope with Kiruna within the upper topje with Sweden - until Madrid km southward and with Weep until Tokyo. With us within Flanders brings Euro1080 the Nieuwjaarsconcert within the cinemacomplex with Mechlin : UTOPOLIS right up to the Nekkerhallen - worn 1 January since 10u45. One first ward is yet in full sold out , solely both and technical when logistics may yet secondary zalen turn uitgerust. Worthy one ticket within Weep € nourishment pitcher you towards UTOPOLIS the ticket obtain upon solely 18€. The pitcher possibly one tiny torture stand for to worn New Year's day what sooner worn within standing , solely here we are with convinced who none yonder regret with will have. Next to the unique opportunity worn themselves , gives the the possibility to nieuwjaarsgroeten within take upon various pretty and relatives. The placenta to measurable! Euro1080 offers during the recess too yet willingly one hapje and one potion upon.

:smoke:

I'm good at Dutch :grin:

Chris Muriel

24-12-2003, 6:00 PM

Euro1080 is now testing on 5 degrees East, Sirius satellite.
Details are : 12.188 H, 27500, 3/4, VPID=308, APID=256, PCR-PID=8191 (slightly unusual PCR PID).
It shows the Astra logo.
Picture is 1920 x 1088i with videodatarate currently an incredible 34 Mbps.
Some people may find it's too fast for their PC's to cope with !

Will check the Astra steam shortly to see if what is being shown is identical & with same parameters.
(Current mix of orchestral and pop looks familiar).

Chris Muriel, Manchester.

Chris Muriel

24-12-2003, 6:40 PM

Just checked. Only 17.8 Mbps video bitrate on the Astras.
Had to use PCR-Pid of 8191 again though in order to see the video content.

Chris Muriel, Manchester.

Rittberg

24-12-2003, 7:05 PM

Originally posted by Chris Muriel
Euro1080 is now testing on 5 degrees East, Sirius satellite.

Hi,

Talked yesterday to Mr. Jacque, the man who is in charge on the Euro1080's technical side. He explained that they are going to use the Sirius 2 only for the cinemas (EVENT channel) and it will be encrypted.
The MAIN channel will continue from the Astra 1H.

Merry Christmas,

Rittberg