Using headphones - worth having a headphone amp?

[Crocodile JD]

Hi All

I love the sound from my Kef Q35.2s and would be happy listening through them all the time. However, with having young kids, listening levels at night have been reduced to frustratingly low levels so I've ended up getting some cans as well.

I've got Sennheiser HD590s and I've been told, by more than one person, that they are certainly good enough to warrent a dedicated headphone amp. Currently I'm using an Arcam Alpha 7 amp for all music duties. While the sound via the cans is good, there's nothing like the attack that is there when listeng via the speakers. It could be that it gets better as the cans get run in, it could be a limitation of the cans or, it could be that the amp is simply not as good at driving them as it is the speakers?

I've never had the chance of auditioning any so the question is would a dedicated headphone amp be that much better and if so what is a sensible price point? In fact any specific recomendations?

Crocodile JD

[pbirkett]

As someone who has recently gone from not being into headphones at all, into becoming a veritable headphoneaphile I think I may be able to offer some advice here.

First of all, the Sennheiser headphones you have are some of the easier to drive phones they make, that is, they will be driven pretty well out of the headphone jack of your integrated amp, and the improvement may perhaps not be as great as you want for getting an amp.

Having said that, they could still improve noticably with a headphone amp I guess (not having heard the 590's).

Recently, I got some Beyerdynamic DT931 headphones. They sounded alright out of the headphone jack of my Rotel amplifier, but there was definetly room for improvement, the sound was overtiring and hard.

I recently got a Meier Audio Corda HA-1 headphone amplifier, a supposedly synergestic mix for those particular headphones. The sound is dramatically improved in dynamics, refinement, smoothness, it can also go louder and has more impressive bass. It also has a nifty crossfeed feature, which sends musical information from the left channel to the right channel, with a slight delay and vice versa, and this gives more of an impression of using speakers (its not perfect, but it goes a long way to reducing fatigue when using headphones).

During my research, it has been suggested that the minimum of a Corda HA-1 or META 42 (a DIY amp) is recommended to see a useful improvement on the headphone jack of an integrated, and judging by the performance of the Corda, I'd say it was true.

So, I'd say go for it, if you intend to spend a lot of time listening to cans. Just one thing though - I have found that headphones can never quite match the impact and slam that speakers can have, although you can get bassier headphones, its pretty much impossible to recreate the feeling of bass you get from speakers.

[alexs2]

Depending on how much you want to spend,a good starter is the Creek Audio headphone amp at around £100 www.creekaudio.com (if memory serves),or if you want something truly sublime,the Earmax headphone amp from www.audiophileclub.co.uk a single ended triode amp that puts just about anything else in the shade....about £400.

I have one of those with a set of Sennheisers and the detail etc is amazing.

There is a huge difference between the quality of most integrated headphone outputs on amps/receivers and a dedicated haedphone amp,and I think you'd find that even one as well priced as the Creek would offer quite an improvement.

[Crocodile JD]

pbirkett

Thanks for the reply. You're right about the 590's being easier to run than some. They are 120Ohm as opposed for example to the 600's which are 300Ohm. I don't pretend to know anything about the technical side, but that's the way I understood it from the reviews I read when I was choosing. I went for the 590's hoping that I wouldn't need a separate amp. One thing that is really good on them is the bass. In fact I was really suprised that you could get that much bass from cans. Deatil is all there as well. It's just a bit of punch that seems to be lacking.

How much are we talking for the Corda HA-1 or the META 42 and does the META come as a complete kit? Would I need a reasonable understanding of electronics or is it more about being able to read instructions and use a soldering iron?

Crocodile JD

[NicolasB]

worth having a headphone amp?

Hell, yes!

Well, very often. You do find amplifiers and pre-amplifiers that have satisfactory headphone outputs, but they are rare. Most manufacturers don't bother, because they know that most people don't listen much with headphones, and they want to make the amp cheaper without affecting the speaker performance.

The Earmax gets very good reviews. I'm a big fan of my Graham Slee Projects "solo" headphone amp (although admittedly I paid about half the price they cost now). If you want to go completely mad the Sugden Headmaster is supposed to be superb (and not a bad stereo pre-amp to boot) for about £600.

There are various other cheaper options, too: Rega, Musical Fidelity X-Cans, and so on.

There have been a few threads about this before. Check this one and maybe this one (for some rather esoteric discussion), and perhaps this one too.

(There are others if you do a search).

[pbirkett]

Hi Croc,

First of all, regarding the META42 amp, I'd go to www.head-fi.org and do a search, you may find enough info about it to get you started. But I believe you will need a reasonable understanding of electronics / DIY to get going with it.

As for the Corda, you can find these at www.meier-audio.com. These are the only distributors of these amps, and the HA-1 cost me £206 including VAT and delivery. This is one excellent amp, and from what I've read, its far superior to the MF X-cans, Creek or Rega amplifiers, in fact at its price level, its the only commercial amp worth getting.

From my research, the X-cans, creek and rega amps are only a tiny bit better than a decent headphone jack on amps of Rotel or Arcam's caliber. So you will want to be aiming for at least the Corda IMO.

Could you wire up headphones into the speaker terminals of a low powered amp? for example a tube amp?

Would the phones go 'poof!

??

[NicolasB]

X-cans, creek and rega amps are only a tiny bit better than a decent headphone jack on amps of Rotel or Arcam's caliber

Certainly, as I said, some amps have good headphone outputs. And some don't. My father has just bought himself a 2nd hand Rega headphone amp (£65), and says it's a very big step up from the headphone socket on his amplifier - but then the amp is a Sony TA-FE570, which, at £130, is not exactly state of the art.

[alexs2]

In answer to nathan's query,there are a few(mostly american) valve amps that are very low powered,and have been used with both horn loaded speakers and headphones.
These have mostly used the 2A3 triode and allegedly sound very good,but have price tags to match.

For the record though,most valve power amps will be unsuitable due to power output,as most valve amps other than SETs are more than healthy in the power department(witness Manley's MB-1250 or ARC's amps).

Far better to stick to purpose built headphone amps.....another great source of info as well as superb(but expensive headphone amps) is http://headroom.headphone.com/layout.php this site covers just about everything headphone related.

[Bassbin]

I've been eyeing up Xcans at my local dealers for about a year now but have never felt strongly enough to shell out on them. However, this thread has rekindled my interest. Am I right in thinking that the Xcans use valves? I assume that this will give a very different sound to the other amps around. The two other products that have caught my eye are the Senheiser Lucas (would not use the surround features but could it be used just as a headphone amp) and then one from QED but I can't recall the number. Both of these units have the advantage that they can power 2 pairs of headphones which I would like. However they are only budget items so I wondered if anyone has tried them.

[Crocodile JD]

worth having a headphone amp

Hell, yes!

Thanks NicolasB I think so judging by the response to this thread at least. Thanks for all the replys guys.

alexs2 what are your Sennheisers, are they the 600's?

Being honest, I'm not in the £400 league. I'd say with the listening ratio at about 65% speakers and 35% headphones and given that my cans were only about £85 ish, I'd say the £100 to £200 range. I'm also on the trail for a second hand Arcam Alpha 8p power amp at the mo - so another hit on the wallet. I'm definately going to look into the Corda HA-1 though.
pbirkett what are your Beyerdynamic DT931s rated at? Interested because you mention the close compatability with the Corda HA-1.

Crocodile JD

[NicolasB]

I have Sennheiser HD600s. They're rather lovely.

(I actually have two pairs. I one the second one in a competition about 3 weeks after buying the first pair. )

The 580s are very nearly as good as the 600s. I'm afraid the 590s are actually a step down in quality from the 580s despite what Sennheiser might want you to believe.

[pbirkett]

Originally posted by Crocodile JD
pbirkett what are your Beyerdynamic DT931s rated at? Interested because you mention the close compatability with the Corda HA-1.

Nominally, the DT931's are rated at 250 ohms, but they can peak at 700 ohms in the bass.

The reason I mentioned the Corda is because not only does the Corda have the 120 ohm jack, which is matched to the DT931's but its also a synergistic match (i.e. components that compliment each other perfectly).

Having said that however, I've been trying the cans out of the 0 ohm jack as well (almost all headphones use 0 ohm jacks as optimal, the 931 is a rare exception), and I actually prefer the 0 ohm jack, it gives a far livelier and more musical sound.

I bet the Corda and 590s would also sound very nice together.

The 580s are very nearly as good as the 600s. I'm afraid the 590s are actually a step down in quality from the 580s despite what Sennheiser might want you to believe

Believe it or not, not everyone prefers the 580 / 600 over the 590, the 590 is allegedly even more comfortable, has a better quality 1 sided cord, and a livelier, more upfront balance. I know plenty of folk who prefer the 590's, but they are all good headphones and a matter of taste, but too many people write the 590's off without hearing them.

[Crocodile JD]

OK I'm back. Apart from a very busy weekends patio building! I've been running through the various recommended threads etc. I must admit, that after reading the so called "esoteric" thread, I'm more confused than ever as to which headphones are easier to run and do I understand correctly that with the right lead I could us the tape out or pre out on my integrated for a better sound than from the headphone socket?

On the choice of headphones, originally I was trying to get some 600s, purely on the back of reviews I admit. At the time Richer sounds were selling them at around £100+ but they were out of stock. I got fed up of waiting so I went to my local dealers. They only had the 570s and the 590s. The 590s were in a different league to the 570s but very expensive at around £160. But when I saw them on line for about £80+ inc. postage I went for it. Thanks pbirkett, your comforting words have saved me from the upgrade bug (for now at least), lets get the amp sorted first Unless that is NicolasB wants to sell a set of 600s cheap

Crocodile JD

[NicolasB]

Unless that is NicolasB wants to sell a set of 600s cheap

I buy cheap and sell expensive.

do I understand correctly that with the right lead I could us the tape out or pre out on my integrated for a better sound than from the headphone socket?

Results from plugging 'phones directly into pre-outs or tape loop may not be that great. This is one of the places where you might be thinking about plugging in a headphone amp. If you're listening to (say) a CD player, then it should be plugged into the source (the player), but it's less obvious what one should do in an AV setup. If the processor is doing decoding and/or conversion then you'll need to plug it into one of the processor outputs.