Anybody with a SIM2 C3X 10880?

[Isco 3]

I was wondering if anybody here has the new Sim2 C3X 1080.
People don't seem to buy 3-chip DLP's, which I still think their Ansi contrast gives them a superior image to all the rest!

Anybody?

[mwomwell]

If only I had a spare £20k to spend!!

[Penfold73]

I think a lot more people would buy them if they weren't so expensive.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by ISCO 3

I was wondering if anybody here has the new Sim2 C3X 1080.
People don't seem to buy 3-chip DLP's, which I still think their Ansi contrast gives them a superior image to all the rest!

Anybody?

For the £20k+ price I guess we should expect a very special image.

There are owner reports over on AVS. Generally good but there appears to be some side effects of using the larger 1080 chips in the small case. Not as bright as the C3X 720 and no one appears to have been able to achieve/measure the claimed spec on/off contrast.

AVI

[Isco 3]

I have been following the avs threads, where have you seen these reviews?
I want to know more about these nasty side effects...
Could you direct me to the correct thread, please?

[RTFM]

I had a C3X 1080 here recently before my customer picked it up.
It was brighter than my C3X 720 and the black level was far better. Black bars on a 2.35 film were very black.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by ISCO 3

I have been following the avs threads, where have you seen these reviews?
I want to know more about these nasty side effects...
Could you direct me to the correct thread, please?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=951096&page=7

Actual user/owner feedback starts at page 7 and goes on from there for many pages.

Also Jason Turk (AVS dealer) did a review of the C3X 1080 and originally included a host of measurements and warts and all comments i.e. halo, CR. However, a short while after the review was modified to a "new style" minus measurements (?) with the explanation -

"Now what you will no longer see is the measurement section. I know some of you will be disappointed, and some will not care one way or the other. I have done this for several reasons. First off, though I always put a disclaimer that my resulting numbers should not be considered as the “rule”, many people do take them to heart. Remember my room is not an ideal test environment, and every projector differs, as does the particular reviewers gear, technique, environment, etc… Because of this, the resulting numbers that I (and really any reviewer get), should only be taken with a grain of salt. Unfortunately this doesn’t always happen so I have decided to remove them completely. In their place, I will put specific aspects of the projector in “list” mode, and comment on what I see relative to other projectors I have played with."

First time I've seen Jason do this on any of the PJ's he's reviewed but I believe some of the original numbers/halo issue are still captured in the feeback thread linked above. It was later posted that Jason's review unit was subpar. I believe he subsequently measured a replacement unit at max CR or 6000:1 compared to the <3000:1 of the original unit.

From reading the various posts it appears the output on a new lamp hovers around the 1000 lumens mark (some under some over) and best contrast measured is 7000:1 in a very good dedicated room with less than maximum lumens.

AVI

[Avi]

Originally Posted by RTFM

I had a C3X 1080 here recently before my customer picked it up.
It was brighter than my C3X 720 and the black level was far better. Black bars on a 2.35 film were very black.

Interesting. Anyone who follows Coldmachine knows he is an owner that is very well connected at Sim2. He often corrects dealer info and is very pro Sim2 having owned many models.

Originally Posted by coldmachine

The C3X is actually brighter than the C3X1080 by around 300 lumen.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...951096&page=13 post #370

AVI

[Isco 3]

All I remember from that thread is how great the 700:1 Ansi contrast is!

[Avi]

Originally Posted by ISCO 3

All I remember from that thread is how great the 700:1 Ansi contrast is!

And that's a great number but not as high as some. If ANSI was the only measure of performance it would be great but in the real world it isn't.

If you want high ANSI the sharp 21k is about the highest I've seen at 865:1 room permitting (Greg R - WSR). If the deals are still around that would save you around £18.5k.

AVI

[coldmachine]

Hi guys.

The C3X1080 is a great machine, here are a few points.

1. 1100 lumen at D65, so Dazzer is correct as C3X can give itro 1400 at D65
2. Real world contrast is around 7200 with max lumen
3. ANSI is over 700

Those figures were tested at one of the worlds most advanced HD facilities and are beyond question and have been accepted as such on AVS. The test schedule and methodology were extensive to the point of brutality and is actually being looked at for commercial use.. They also are also very close to Jasons own figures and mirror that of other owners.

The Iris is very non aggressive and makes only a small difference. One owner measured 850 lumen but found he had set the lamp power down from max and was able to realize 1150. None will be lower than 1000 new. The max yet seen is 1250 @ D65. It is also possible to set to around 7600k and achieve over 1300 lumen for non critical viewing or ambient conditions

The reason Jasons figures were initially off was actually not due to a defective unit, read between the lines or contact Jason. Also the change in test format was decided on long before that test. It was a decision taken by the owner Alan Gouger, I know this because i was asked for my opinion and input.

This is without doubt one of the best PJ out there at this mid level price point. There is however on huge annoyance for me...... Those specs could easily read 1650lumen and 9800 CR all at D65, but i don't want to get into that here. It may crop up on AVS at some point.

ISCO3...The ANSI is not the reason for the 3 chip image although it does help. Single chip DLP ANSI is just as good. The subject has been extensively covered on AVS so have a look on the $20k forum for best info.

The HT market in the US is very different in terms of maturity and average spend, and there are plenty 3 chippers sold there, the main 2 being the HT5000 and now the 1080 which is totally sold out. These machines aren't really used with screens under 10ft and are almost exclusively ISCOIII scoped on 235 masking screens. From my time in the UK the vast majority of screens are just too small.

Hope this helps or is of interest.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by coldmachine

The reason Jasons figures were initially off was actually not due to a defective unit, read between the lines or contact Jason. Also the change in test format was decided on long before that test. It was a decision taken by the owner Alan Gouger, I know this because i was asked for my opinion and input.

Cold

Thanks for the info.

It may be just bad timing but I found it strange that Jason changed the original review mid review after some negative comment started appearing. At the end of day AVSforum is owned and operated by a dealer in business to sell Sim2 PJ's amonst others. I don't know if there's anything to read in between the lines about that.

I have no doubt the C3X 720 and 1080 is are fine machines and very profitable products.

AVI

[coldmachine]

Originally Posted by Avi

Cold

Thanks for the info.

It may be just bad timing but I found it strange that Jason changed the original review mid review after some negative comment started appearing. At the end of day AVSforum is owned and operated by a dealer in business to sell Sim2 PJ's amonst others. I don't know if there's anything to read in between the lines about that.

I have no doubt the C3X 720 and 1080 is are fine machines and very profitable products.

AVI

No probs dude.

Its always a pleasure with the Dazzer

[coldmachine]

Originally Posted by ISCO 3

All I remember from that thread is how great the 700:1 Ansi contrast is!

Dont forget that 99.99% of rooms are totally incapable of actually realizing this figure or anything close to it. Most rooms on here and AVS would yield below 150 ANSI despite the PJ abilities.

Im happy to outline the extremes to which i had to go to obtain high ANSI capability. You may be surprised.

[Isco 3]

It is a 2.35 setup I have, with an Isco III in place.