A chance to try out a media streamer?

[NuklearNik]

I am interested in streaming media, (quel surprise I hear you cry, in an AV firum as well!) but as they tend to be sold by computing outlets getting a chance to try them thoroughly before parting with hard earned can be difficult. Equally hard to get a decent dem if you find one at an electrical retailers. Anybody got any experience in this around Stockport/Warrington?

Thanks:thumbsup:

[mjcairney]

I believe John Lewis do these - do you have a store near you? If so, I'm sure you could arrange a demo there.

Season's Greetings,

Martin.

[rhubarbe]

The trouble with a demo is that you only then get the choice from the range stocked by the outfit doing the demo. The two best streamers (allegedly), the Tvix and the Popcornhour, aren't sold by any retail outlet, so you get the rest to choose from. Of the rest, the best currently is probably the Netgear Digital Entertainer EVA8000, but, and it's quite a big but, you need to be up to installing the beta software (and joining the beta programme) to get a firmware that will do any sort of justice to the player.

Don't expect to achieve Nirvana first time out, either. I am waiting for players no. nine and ten right now, not to mention that six HTPCs that have come and gone in the interrim.

If you give us a list of the file types that you want to stream, and your AV environment, then we'll do our best to help.

[DISCODV]

The latest Beta firmware (2.1.145) on the Netgear EVA8000 has been officially realeased so you no longer need to join the beta program to get the added goodies!!! You just need to select update from the menus to the receive the latest firmware.

[PhlangePhace]

The trouble with a demo is that you only then get the choice from the range stocked by the outfit doing the demo. The two best streamers (allegedly), the Tvix and the Popcornhour, aren't sold by any retail outlet, so you get the rest to choose from. Of the rest, the best currently is probably the Netgear Digital Entertainer EVA8000, but, and it's quite a big but, you need to be up to installing the beta software (and joining the beta programme) to get a firmware that will do any sort of justice to the player.

Don't expect to achieve Nirvana first time out, either. I am waiting for players no. nine and ten right now, not to mention that six HTPCs that have come and gone in the interrim.

If you give us a list of the file types that you want to stream, and your AV environment, then we'll do our best to help.

Some time soon I may be looking to upgrade my MG35 to a unit that will handle x264 as well as ISO/VOBs. Currently, I either play my x264 from a laptop directly to my TV and recently experimenting with changing the mkv container for a vob in order to stream to a PS3.
I find my MG35 particularly useful to take away on holidays and will likely carry on doing this.

but as far as a 'permanent' setup is concerned I see the PCH or Tvix are the two decent (latest) players to consider.

My question is....on paper, at least, which to go for?
I would most of the time be streaming from a NAS, and this will be video only (SB3 is my player of choice for muzak). Also not concerned with additional 'features'....my only point of comparison is the 'capability' with respect to video file types and how well each respective player performs.
Is there any real difference between the two, in this respect?
Would a E100 saving on Tvix RRP (thru MPC) be a no-brainer compared to full RRP of PCH? Or would I be buying features that I don't need?

[richard_leeds]

I would most of the time be streaming from a NAS, and this will be video only (SB3 is my player of choice for muzak). Also not concerned with additional 'features'....my only point of comparison is the 'capability' with respect to video file types and how well each respective player performs.


That sounds like what I'm considering. I'm thinking of setting up a NAS in my understairs cupboard linked to my wireless router. Then SB3 for music in each room. I can hardwire to where my TV is located.

So something like the TVIX could work read/write from/to the NAS?

[NuklearNik]

Going back to the original question:

Followed up Martin's suggestion - because JL is 1 mile down the road! No joy I'm afraid, but no harm in asking.

So tackling rhubarbe's question,currently it is fairly simple: Teac DVD3000 dvd player, Sony HXD710 Freeview HDD/DVD recorder (though I don't recommend the DVD playing part of it) and a Sony 25" Trinitron (how quaint I hear all the flatscreen afficianados cry!). Moving on to where I think I would like to be: 1) replace the Sony with a dedicated HTPC - solely for recording TV
2) store the recorded programmes on a NAS box - no choice made yet but it will stream over copper and NOT wirelessly (well the telly won't move so hardwiring doesn't remove any flexibility)
3) stream from NAS to telly
4) for all the on demand services stream a PC desktop to the telly
5) 1 day persuade wife that an HD Loewe is worth the money

Music, for musics sake isn't an issue here.

What I think should be said is that there are almost certainly formats that I don't know exist that I'll end up wanting to stream, particularly as my son grows up and discovers the internet.

I expect that this leaves as many questions unanswered as it answers but it's a start.

Thanks guys.

[richard_leeds]

If you can hard wire to the TVix/PCH at the telly with ethernet, then why not use a decent video card in the PC with a hard wire direct to the TV? Then no need for the TVix or PCH? (sorry for showing my ignorance)

[rhubarbe]

Before you get all excited about the idea of an HTPC may I say that I have built six of them (one after the other) and have junked them all. If they are powerful enough to do anything they will be too loud for your lounge.

If you can get the hardware right you have the problem of software. Take my example; I want to stream iso and AVCHD camcorder files as well as .mpeg2. The MCE GUI won't recognise any of the files I have on my NAS, and GBPVR, which will let you play iso if you mount a virtual DVD under Daemon Tools, shoots up error message after error message in a flurry that will knock the WAF of the HTPC into negative territory.

By contrast the Tvix does it all out of the box.

[NuklearNik]

The noise issue is sort of what drives the streaming idea. My Sony is noisy. I suspect that a streamer w/o HDD will be a lot quieter. Plan is to locate HTPC and NAS remotely, probably study, and then stream to a player in the lounge.

Now I might be wrong, it's happened before, but if I want a PC that does nothing more than record to a remote drive then sound cards and graphics cards are no longer an issue if I can record in the appropriate file format so that the streamer can decode and play. Or am I missing something?

For Richard's benefit; Yes that is an option but use of a NAS box and streamer, rather than hardwiring a PC to the telly, also provides me with other server based functionality that I am considering.

[rhubarbe]

A remotely situated PC that requires another media player to stream files to the TV?

But surely all you need is a media player and a NAS and forget the HTPC?

[NuklearNik]

Only if the media player can record TV as well, which I see the TVix can. Don't recall seeing that the PCH has this facility and I'm fairly certain that the Netgear would need an external TV source. But I'm open to suggestions as to the best approach. :hiya:

[mjcairney]

Followed up Martin's suggestion - because JL is 1 mile down the road! No joy I'm afraid, but no harm in asking.



As a matter of interest, what do you mean by "no joy" - did they not want to demo it, or don't they stock them? I ask this because I'm certain I've seen the Netgear one in their Glasgow store.

Season's Greetings,

Martin.

[rhubarbe]

Well, I went down the route of a Toppy with USB out so that I could move the recordings off the Toppy and onto a NAS (via a PC).

IMHO, the purpose built and designed AV devices are still better than the jack of all trades that a PC is.

Don't get me wrong; the potential of the HTPC is immense but it's one thing (a very hard thing) to get the hardware right, only to find that the software just won't do what you want it to do.

OK, I could just about use my HTPC MKVI to play all of my files using non-MCE apps, but my wife do it? Forget it.

[NuklearNik]

Martin, 'no joy' means yes they do stock them, no they can't dem them.

rhubarbe, forgive the ignorance but what do you mean by 'toppy'? As you can probably gather all I'm really after is a way of recording TV without having the 'noise' in the lounge and streaming On Demand services, photos etc. DVDs are covered, surround processing is covered.

I suspect, and someone tell me I'm wrong, that as analog is switched off, bandwidth is squeezed, and broadcast quality drops (just look at Virgin1, ITV3 etc) that we'll be pushed into paying for HD - just to get back to the quality we had before! So to some extent I anticipate that on demand will end up being a better service. But then we shouldn't complain as the clue is in the name - FREEview!

Anyway you've given me some food for thought. Cheers.

[rhubarbe]

A Toppy is a Topfield TF5800PVR twin tuner Freeview Hard disk recorder. It has optical sound out (though Freeview is only stereo) and USB slave so you can connect a PC to it and move the recordings to something like a Tvix that will store and play ISOs, AVCHD, mpeg2/4, etc, etc.

The Toppy has no fans and the Tvix has but it's very quiet. Taken together you'd get 250GB HDD on the Toppy and whatever HDD you want to shove in the Tvix.

With your DVDs and CDs ripped to ISO and FLAC you wouldn't need a DVD player, or a CD player.

Toppy plays .mp3, too.

Have a look here:

www.toppy.org.uk

[lookatbowen]

Or you can buy a Humax PVR 160GB Hard Disk (dual tuner recording and playback while recording), which does the same as the Toppy (also has optical out, USB for copying to a PC or NAS, RCA etc).

I have a Synology DS-106e NAS (two years old now, but future proof with firmware upgrades and very good support) and up until a couple of days ago could not read, stream music, video, slideshows from it to my XBOX360 (media extender), but that all changed recently after the new firmware they posted allowing NFS and various other fixes.

Now I can stream DivX, Xvid, MP3, JPG, GIF, BMP to the XBOX Media Centre (without actually having a PC on :thumbsup:). There are of couse quite a few formats that don't work... but hopefully the Tvix 6500 will sort all of that out (right rhubarbe?), when it arrives in Feb 08.

As I understand it from various forums and their website, the Tvix 6500 is compatible with the Synology NAS devices and it will be the answer to everything.

I agree with Rhubarbe, the noise from a PC in the lounge is not great, unless it's stored away somewhere, but you still have to connect your HTPC to the TV, so it has to be fairly close by.

[rhubarbe]

Yes, you could buy a Humax 9200T (I had one of those once, too).

I use a pair of Synology DS101g NAS drives and a little Asus WLHDD2.5 for the music (leave it on all the time at 2W).

I'm sure that the 6500A will have bugs when released - just like all streamers - but it has the potential to be the best.

To paraphrase Bomber Harris: "My response is: it has not been tried yet... We shall see..."

[richard_leeds]

Before you get all excited about the idea of an HTPC
By contrast the Tvix does it all out of the box.

I've seen similar comments elsewhere. I guess I'll duck out and opt for the Toppy or Tvix.

I'll leave my NAS and streaming adventure to audio only (thinking of Streambox3 and SlimServer)

[rhubarbe]

A Tvix will stream music from a NAS as well as any Squeezebox. Get a Toppy and a Tvix, forget the Squeezebox.

[Mrs Lowtech]

[QUOTE=stuffonmydesk;6093754]Or you can buy a Humax PVR 160GB Hard Disk (dual tuner recording and playback while recording), which does the same as the Toppy (also has optical out, USB for copying to a PC or NAS, RCA etc).

Info for dummy please: I have the a Humax 9200T in the living room, connected to the TV. Have now bought now bought a Topfield 5800 for another room. Would like to have the same MP3 playing in various areas of my flat. I am attracted to the Sonos, having read the words 'simple' and 'easy to set up'. Would the Sonos be suitable for streaming between the two PVRs? Is there another option? Currently using an old Bose Lifestyle 3 for sound. I have a wireless router plus Vista Home Premium Media Centre but do not wish to leave the pc on.

[rhubarbe]

No, it wouldn't. If it could be made to work at all it would require either the Toppy, or the Humax to be connected to a host PC in order for it (the Toppy or the Humax) to show as a mass storage device with its own drive letter. That's in theory and I don't think it would work with the Humax and I have my doubts about it working with a Toppy.

What you need to do is to put your music onto a NAS, or a PC and then yes, the Sonos would play it and yes, it is simple to set up.

But, and it is a big but, you'd need a separate Sonos Zoneplayer in each area of your flat that you wanted to have the music playing in. And you'd need something connected to each Zoneplayer (a hi fi or stereo or similar) unless you bought a Zoneplayer ZP100 (which comes with an inbuilt amo and its own speakers). Then of course you would be able to stream a different music file to each Zoneplayer (up to about twelve, I believe).

The last little bit of bad news is that the ZP80 cost £220 + each, and the ZP100 a lot more. You can buy multi kits but even then Sonos isn't a cheap hobby.

[richard_leeds]

A Tvix will stream music from a NAS as well as any Squeezebox. Get a Toppy and a Tvix, forget the Squeezebox.

The reason for the squeezecentre is to get multi room. (which is my priority before sorting out PVR)

Another dummy q .... why would I need a Tvix AND a Toppy, I thought it was one or the other?

[rhubarbe]

The Toppy is a twin tuner PVR. It connects to the TV aerial feed and you use it as a set top box to watch and record Freeview.

A Tvix is a device to stream previously recorded TV shows, ripped DVDs and many other file types to a TV.

So, you'd record the TV using a Toppy, upload the files from the Toppy to your PC using USB, and then ftp the files (once you have removed the adverts) to the Tvix.

You can get a TV tuner for the Tvix and cut out the middleman, but the Tvix tuner isn't in the same league as a Toppy for watching, recording, pausing Live TV, etc.

[richard_leeds]

Thanks Rhuabarbe. Makes sense now.

edit> ... except...

I guess one could put the files back onto the Toppy using USB and watch without the need for the Tvix. I.e. the only benefit of the Tvix is being able to stream direct from PC (or NAS?) storage.

[rhubarbe]

I think that the act of editing a Toppy mpeg2 (.rec format) file, in order to remove top and tail and the ads, is that first you have to demultiplex the file, and this strips out the proprietary Toppy file headers. This would cause the newly edited file not to play in the Toppy.

If you nip over to www.toppy.org.uk there are some jolly clever guys on there who can get Toppies to do more or less everything.

[Mrs Lowtech]

If you nip over to www.toppy.org.uk there are some jolly clever guys on there who can get Toppies to do more or less everything.


Silly question before checking out the Toppy link: I am mainly enjoying the Toppy for music and radio. Could it be connected to the laptop or a small monitor, instead of having to go through the TV every time?

[rhubarbe]

Well, you can run a USB a to b cable from the PC (or laptop) to the Toppy and it will show up in some Toppy software that you can run on your PC, and you can transfer files from the PC to Toppy and vice versa. If that's what you mean.

[Mrs Lowtech]

Well, you can run a USB a to b cable from the PC (or laptop) to the Toppy and it will show up in some Toppy software that you can run on your PC, and you can transfer files from the PC to Toppy and vice versa. If that's what you mean.



No, can do that, (just about!). With the sound coming from the Toppy via speakers, the TV can be turned off (nice and green) during radio/music recordings. Just wondered if the initial viewing screen could be other than a full blown TV.

[rhubarbe]

I see. No, then. :)

[micken]

Hi rhubarbe, I'm a toppy owner and a member of the toppy forum. Thanks for your many useful contributions both there and here. :smashin:

I stream toppy content directly from it's hard drive through both wired and wifi lan using vlc.

Have you come across any of these streamers that could see the toppy HDD and stream the .rec files from it?

Mick

[rhubarbe]

If you are using the slug, then the Topy HDD should show as a mass storage device, shouldn't it? If so then it should be able to stream from the Toppy if only the Toppy .rec headers didn't mean that the transport stream files needed demultiplexing (VideoReDo Quickstream Fix) in order to be able to stream them.

I was never bright enough to get the slug working so I sold mine. I tried the Asus route but that had me beat, too.

[micken]

Thanks rhubarbe.

Yes I've got the toppy networked via a slug. If any of the media players could handle .ts/.rec streams I would imagine that demultiplexing would not be necessary. I'll do some research.