Best router for 20mb bb

[furs307c]

Hi can anyone tell me simply what is the best router to use for virgin 20mb bb

[RAINS]

Hi can anyone tell me simply what is the best router to use for virgin 20mb bb

I'm using and have been for 2 year a linksys with no problems.:smashin:

[Jayceef1]

See this. Coming soon and looks the mutts.

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=379601

[AndySnapper]

That Belkin N1 is quoted at being over £1200. If that's right I will have to pass this time :god:

Andy

[AndySnapper]

I am also on Virgin 20Mb and bypassing my router (SMC7004ABR) I get the full whack of 20Mb mostly. Unfortunately the SMC is not capable of delivering more than 10Mb (confirmed by SMC).

I am amazed how poor the information is out there on what DSL routers can support this speed effectively. The information on the boxes is equally dreadful and the PC World tech people, well I had better not go there :censored::thumbsdow

I guess that I will have to go wireless now as that seems to be the fashion (even though I have no other need at all to do so).

Is anyone else using a compatible router with Virgin Media 20Mb?

Cheers!

Andy

[bullfinch]

Well I'm no expert but it seems to me you get 54Mbps routers and 108Mbps routers, and I would reckon for 20Mb the 108Mbps is the one to go for. But I may be wrong, perhaps someone could clarify?

[AndySnapper]

Thanks for the reply Bullfinch

I think the 54mbps and 108mbps refer to the wireless transmission rate and is nothing to do (directly) with the isp's download throughput.

The industry does have a knack of making things far more complicated than necessary.

Andy

[]|EGG|[]

That Belkin N1 is quoted at being over £1200. If that's right I will have to pass this time :god:

Andy

Out this month and the USD RRP is $200 and a UK RRP of £98 apparently, bit different from the £1200 quoted above!

[SGH42]

See this. Coming soon and looks the mutts.

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=379601

Mmmm... That looks good, I want one !

[Ned Senior]

See this. Coming soon and looks the mutts.

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=379601

http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.aspx?sku=341158 first one I found doing a google

[chris57]

Here's list of routers and the max mb/s that each can cope with:-
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_chart/Itemid,189/

[Jayceef1]

http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.aspx?sku=341158 first one I found doing a google

Try this one. slightly cheaper
http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=4QKS&CategorySelectedId=11177&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11177,50909

[RoNaLdiNhO]

Linksys WRT54GL is what i use, even better after you smack on a hacked firmware on it :P

[jryoung]

It is vitally important to have a newish router with a 100mbps uplink speed to your Cable modem (which also needs to be fairly new). I had to get NTL to upgrade my router (which they now acknowledge on their web site), and then bought a new Netgear router, with Gigabit lan, and 100mbps uplink.

Most older routers and cable modems have a 10mbps uplink. Many new routers still do.

[edenedits]

im using a lynksis router and have been for quite a while now, i have had very bad experiences with various types of belkin hardware and would suggest staying away from that.

[Sooty]

Virgin Media sell their own routers
http://accessories.virginmedia.com/webstore/CNETrelated/ExtendedInformation.aspx?ExtendedCode=S1497289&ExtendedProdCode=0710225&CatCode=SELF520302

You would think if they were selling them they would be perfectly adequate for the job

[steery1]

I'll be having VM install TV, phone and BB to my house in a couple of weeks time. Can anyone tell me what modem the installer should fit in order for me to be able to receive the full up to 20Mb speed? :)
I've heard tales of the installers not fitting the correct modem thus preventing customers from achieving the best speed possible. Also when some customers have upgraded to the 20Mb service from a slower one their modem could not process the full speed.
I'd like to check when its being fitted that its the proper one so I dont have to spend ages with CS asking them to send out a new modem. :)
I'll also have to buy one of the routers recommended in this thread for my network. :smashin:

[essdee]

I would expect you to get an Virgin Media 255 (made by Ambit). I have a 250 which is pretty much the same apart from the branding and the 255 only has ethernet (no USB). Data sheet for the 255 here (http://www.ambitbroadband.co.uk/DataSheets/Virgin%20Media%20255%20Data%20Cable%20Modem.pdf). A 200 may also be ok, however don't accept a 100 or 120. Unlikely you would get one of these anyway, but you never know.


I also use a Linksys WRT54G with DD-WRT firmware and can get up to about 16Mb wireless and get over 19Mb when hard-wired.

Hope this helps.

[steery1]

Nice one essdee, thanks. I'll keep an eye out for it. :thumbsup:

[DarkEntity]

There is no "Best" router. D-Link, Netgear, Linksys and a few others are probably the most well known names on the market. Get one that is Wirelss and supports the "N" standard and one that has Gigabit LAN as if its a new PC itll probably have gigabit ports.

Other than that look for one that suits your needs. If you want robust reliable go for one of the above (although ive had nothing but problems with Netgear others love them) Ive got a D-Link Di624 which atm is doing great (although will be getting replaced with a gigabit and N class wireless model soon.

[tonyk79]

I have a Linksys WRT300n Router and it acheives the maximum download speed from Virgin. I have it running two PC's , 1 HP Laserjet printer and 1 Xbox 360 via cat 5 cabling and another Xbox 360 and Laptop via Wireless.

Granted most of this does not run at the same time but I can not fault the router or the bundled Wireless card (300mb Laptop card). Below is a link for, in the UK it is a silver and black colour as opposed to the picture shown and is a Version 2.0 which had firmwire updates.

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1144763513404&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper

[chumley1]

I have a motorola SB5101E modem (you might have to ask for it as they may give you a telstar or something similar, which in my view are no comparison) along with a Belkin 2.4ghz wireless router (allows for both wired and wireless connections) WEP security. Keeps everything steady. This is not all you have to check on.

It also depends 'where you are in relation to the cable. What I mean by this is .... in my case we are at the end of the cable on my street, noone else after our house, the end of the line so to speak. This means as the signal is brought up, there are alot of people between us and the main cable point down the road, thus putting us at the wrong end of a drain on the strength of connection. Imagine a hose connected to the tap (main connection) and you are at the spout end. Now everybody between you and the tap is a hole in the hose. Your strength at your end of the hose diminishes.

I managed to get a decent engineer so instead of just one cable connecting my house we have 2 cables coming in to help with the connection upkeep :smashin:

Hope this helps

[TimeLord]

i have the D-Link DIR-655 Xtreme N Gigabit Router.

id give it a 9/10. when vm is running as it should i get some great speeds :thumbsup:


http://www.speedtest.net/result/161418127.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

[SGH42]

Anyone bought a Belkin N1 Vision yet ? I'm on the brink !

Cheers
Steve

[Jayceef1]

I have a Belkin N1 Vision. works a dream (so far, only had it a week) and get around 19Mbs when the connection is maxed out.:thumbsup:

[SGH42]

Sounds good ! Cheapest I've seen it for is here :

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/132749

£104.99, anyone seen cheaper ?

Thanks
Steve

[bradfitt]

I have the belkin also. Not only does it work great it looks great as well. Downfall is I can't help playing with the display got to keep touching those buttons hope the fad wears off soon.

[DarkEntity]

Check out D-Links newest router.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d40/DavyDuncan1955/PC%20Hardware/D-LinkXtremeNGamingRouter.jpg

check out

http://news.softpedia.com/news/D-Link-039-s-New-Xtreme-N-Gaming-Router-Brings-Wireless-Fragging-69580.shtml

[guvvie]

I have a Linksys WRT300n Router and it acheives the maximum download speed from Virgin. I have it running two PC's , 1 HP Laserjet printer and 1 Xbox 360 via cat 5 cabling and another Xbox 360 and Laptop via Wireless.

Granted most of this does not run at the same time but I can not fault the router or the bundled Wireless card (300mb Laptop card). Below is a link for, in the UK it is a silver and black colour as opposed to the picture shown and is a Version 2.0 which had firmwire updates.

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_Product_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1144763513404&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper


Have you managed to connect the 360 wirelessly to your wrt300n using the newest 2.0.20 firmware???

[sotonjoe]

I'm completely confused now.

I've purchased a dlink router kit dkt-110 which contains a dir-301 router to use with my 20mb connection. However, I can't for the life of me find whether it is able to support a connection up to 20mb. The only data I can find is with regards to it's wireless data transfer rate across a network which is 54mbps.

I'm a little concerned that it is only designed for use with slower questions so I've emailed dlink for confirmation. Is there anyway i can test the router to find out myself? Or perhaps somebody might just happen to know!?!?!?

The weird things is that when you look at the specs for some routers they boast about their ability to handle faster internet connections up to 24mbps etc so a failure to include any info on my router's spec makes me think that it might only support up to 8mbps etc.

Any help / advice greatly appreciated!

[sotonjoe]

The best bit is that dlink themselves don't seem to have any clue what i'm on about either. I've had two useless replies so far....

"Dear Joe,
>
> It depends upon your ISP.
> It also depends upon the whther you are using a cable modem or a DSL modem in front of the dlink router.
> As you are using a router, the speed can decrease to some extent as a router performs a NAT function.
> So there will be some change in the speed.
> If you have any other queries , please write us back.
>
>
> Regards,
> D-Link UK Technical Support"

and...

"Dear Joe

We appreciate your writing to us.

- Speed depend on ISP ( Cable modem ) what speed you get from them .
- The speed is not specified on router it purely depend on cable modems speed.


For any added clarifications, do feel free to write back.

Regards
D-Link UK Technical Support"


How on earth could I possibly need added clarifications???

[Colin Taylor]

Hi Joe,

Dlink are correct when they say it depends on the ISP, although I can see why you're confused.

The link between Virgin's cable modem and the DIR-301's WAN port will be 100Mb/s. Any WIRED connections between the DIR-301's LAN ports and your equipment (i.e. PC) will also be 100Mb/s.

However... even though all of YOUR equipment can talk to each other at 100Mb/s, this doesn't take into account the fact that Virgin is only supplying data from the internet (to the cable modem) at upto 20Mb/s.

So, if you had 2 PC's wired into your router you could transfer files between them at 100Mb/s. But each PC would never transfer data from the internet faster than 20Mb/s.

Of course if you're connecting wirelessly to the router (instead of wired) then you will be restricting the speed of your LOCAL equipment to something less than 54Mb/s (depending on the wireless network cards you're using).



From Pixmania's website:

LAN/WAN - Built-in 4-port LAN 10/100Mbps switch with Auto MDI/X 10/100Mbps WAN port


Regards,

Colin

[sotonjoe]

Cheers Colin. I follow what you're saying but I don't understand where these lower (less than 20mbps on a 54mbps router etc) WAN to LAN throughput figures come into play. The way you have explained things is how I understood the situation before readig about these lower throughput figures not suitbale for a 20mbps internet connection.

Are these figures to do with a router's ability to transmit the data from the internet out onto the LAN via a wireless connection? If this is the case, are we saying that a router will always be able to process data through wired connections at the maximum quoted figure (e.g. 54mbps, 108mbps etc) as long as the internet connection itself is also this fast?

[Colin Taylor]

When people talk about "less than 20mbps on a 54mbps router" they might be refering to the speed they get when connecting wireless equipment.

Remember that when transfering data from the internet you will be limited to the speed of the slowest "link in the chain".

So you might think, "I've got a 54Mb/s wireless connection, that's faster than the 20Mb/s Virgin are suppling. What's the problem."

Well, the problem is wireless connections very rarely achive their advertised throughput. The 54Mb/s wireless protocol is 802.11g. Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#Protocols

You will see that 802.11g is listed as having "about 19 Mbit/s net throughput". This speed is often reduced further because of interference, distance, other wireless devices sharing the router, incompatable network cards, etc, etc, etc.

So, yes you are correct when you say "a router will always be able to process data through wired connections at the maximum quoted figure". Which will be 100Mb/s locally or (in this case, ideally) 20Mb/s from the internet (not 11, 54, 108, etc that's for wireless)

Hope this helps.

[sotonjoe]

Right. And this is why I've always ensured my desktop machine is hard wired to my router. It's only my xbox360 and my laptops, which are only used for occasional surfing, that are wirelessly connected.

All this talk of reduced throughputs had me thrown for a while though but thanks for confirming my understanding.

Things aren't perfect with wired connections though are they because, as D-Link did also point out, the router itself does seem to slow things a little anyway (perhaps due to the NAT function as they said). It's not noticeable though tbh and it's only confirmed when you speed test the connection.

[Colin Taylor]

Hi Joe, one final thought (I promise it's the last).

I've just read the thread "Your Router Might Restrict Your new 20Mb BB", which is probably what you were aluding to in the beginning.

They are talking about another "link" in the chain that I didn't mention, namely the performance hit you get when the router transfers data internally from the WAN port to the LAN/wireless port.

I agree with you, that in my experiance the drop in performance is not noticable. However, as it is dependant on a) the power of the CPU in router, b) the quality of the firmware and c) the user configuration, there is potential for problems.

IMHO, any recent router should be, in hardware terms, more than capable of doing this transfer at 90% of full speed, i.e 90Mb/s (maybe if there are duplexing issues - 50%). More than Virgin is able supply anyway.

Any transfer rates below this are either user configuation problems (i.e. lots of site filtering, NATing etc.) or more likely buggy firmware which the vendor should be able to fix.

P.S. Your original post refered to router specs refering to up to 24Mb/s or 8Mb/s. These relate to ADSL routers connected to phone lines and are therefore not relevant to cable modems.

[bsdbm]

After reading this and looking around the web, I bought this yesterday:

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/903397

Seems a decent deal, as best elsewhere seems to be about £70ish plus post. Don't forget the £10 M&S voucher which you can get at the moment too:

http://www.dlinkpromo.com/q4downloads/Wireless_Claim_Form.pdf

[DarkEntity]

The D-Link router i want to replace my current one isnt being released in the UK....USA and Canada only...fecking typical.

[insane-alex]

Linksys WRT54GL is what i use, even better after you smack on a hacked firmware on it :P

Where do you get this firmware from as thinking of getting the wrt54G . thx

[Bluewolf]

I've used DD_WRT for ages now and found it to be the bees knees :). Google DD_WRT and you'll pick up the site to download it from there.

[steery1]

OK - been reading this interesting thread for a while now with a view to upgrading my up to 4Mb BB to up to 20Mb. :)

I've got a Netgear route (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000GYHRTM)r connected to my PC via ethernet cable and wirelessly connected are 2 laptops, a PS3, a PSP and a Nintendo DS. (Computers are all running on XP and connect at 54Mbps) There'd only be max 3 or 4 of these connected at any one time. :)

Now for the stupid question ................................
On the taskbar there are 2 icons. One for "Internet Connection" and one for "Local Area Connection" :confused:

The "Local Area Connection" one says "Speed 1.0Gbps"
http://reflectionsby.smugmug.com/photos/239858475-S.jpg

The "Internet Connection" one says "Speed 10.0Mbps"
http://reflectionsby.smugmug.com/photos/239858483-S.jpg

Why are there 2 showing 2 very different speeds? :confused:
I pretty much get just under my 4Mbps Virgin BB speed most of the time
http://www.speedtest.net/result/218739958.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Anybody explain this to me. I'm curious as to what all this means before I take the plunge and upgrade to 20Mbps.
Also anybody know how to get better upload speeds with VM. Mine is always around 370kb/s which is the same as what I can get with AOL 2Mbps service.

[DarkEntity]

LAN - Local Area Network is the network which is wired in the house upto the point of the router. All it means is if you connect other machine via a wire to the Router they will run at a maximum of 1Gb/s for data transfer

WAN - Wide Area Network (Internet connection) is the one controlled by your ISP

[steery1]

LAN - Local Area Network is the network which is wired in the house upto the point of the router. All it means is if you connect other machine via a wire to the Router they will run at a maximum of 1Gb/s for data transfer

WAN - Wide Area Network (Internet connection) is the one controlled by your ISP

Thanks :smashin:
So if I'm on "up to 4Mbps" broadband with VM, any idea why the "Internet connection" icon is showing 10Mbps sped? :confused:

[Colin Taylor]

I could be wrong but I think you're seeing the "Internet Connection" icon in the taskbar because you've got ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) turned on.

Check out the properties for the Local Area Connection device, it's under the Advanced tab.

You might want to disable that if you're not using it.

[steery1]

I could be wrong but I think you're seeing the "Internet Connection" icon in the taskbar because you've got ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) turned on.

Check out the properties for the Local Area Connection device, it's under the Advanced tab.

You might want to disable that if you're not using it.

Whats the significance of the 10Mbps speed though?

[Colin Taylor]

My guess is the "10Mbps" is probably bogus information being reported to Windows via the Internet Gateway Device Discovery protocol (look for an explanation on Microsofts site).

I wouldn't worry about it too much. You might want to double check your configuration. Make sure you cable modem is plugged into the WAN port on the router and not the LAN port or your PC.

See if the admin interface for the Netgear reports at what speed the ports are connected. You know your LAN port is connected at 1000Mbps, I would expect the WAN port to be 100Mbps full duplex. If there's a LED for the WAN port its colour should also confirm the speed of connection (check your manual for the colours).

[DarkEntity]

Thanks :smashin:
So if I'm on "up to 4Mbps" broadband with VM, any idea why the "Internet connection" icon is showing 10Mbps sped? :confused:

That probably the fastest speed your moden can do :)

[Colin Taylor]

That probably the fastest speed your moden can do :)

Possibly, but I would expect it to be 100Mbps, unless it's a really old modem. My NTL250 connects at 100Mbps. After all, what's the point of VM suppling modems that only go at 10Mbps when the user might be paying for a 20Mbps service?

[steery1]

Possibly, but I would expect it to be 100Mbps, unless it's a really old modem. My NTL250 connects at 100Mbps. After all, what's the point of VM suppling modems that only go at 10Mbps when the user might be paying for a 20Mbps service?

According to my paperwork I also have an NTL Home 250 modem :confused:

[Colin Taylor]

According to my paperwork I also have an NTL Home 250 modem :confused:

I've got an old 3Com router attached to my NTL250. The 3Com has a status page that shows the speed of the connected devices. Has your Netgear got something similar?


Can you confirm that the NTL250 is connected to the WAN port of the Netgear and not to your PC.

[DarkEntity]

Possibly, but I would expect it to be 100Mbps, unless it's a really old modem. My NTL250 connects at 100Mbps. After all, what's the point of VM suppling modems that only go at 10Mbps when the user might be paying for a 20Mbps service?


There are no Telewest Modems that support 100Mbps. The fastest ones ive seen are 32Mbps. If you get a 20Mbps service then Telewest send out a new Modem that supports that speed, but the default ones provided are 10.

[Colin Taylor]

There are no Telewest Modems that support 100Mbps. The fastest ones ive seen are 32Mbps. If you get a 20Mbps service then Telewest send out a new Modem that supports that speed, but the default ones provided are 10.

Really?, strange. Howcome my NTL250 connects at 100 full duplex then? (See screenshot in my previous post)

Clarification: I am of course refering only to the negotiated speed of the ethernet connection between the NTL250 and the router, which is in no way related to the maximum throughput of the NTL250 or the speed at which it can download from the internet.

[steery1]

Can you confirm that the NTL250 is connected to the WAN port of the Netgear and not to your PC.
Yes. Virgin line goes to modem. Ethernet from modem to router. Ethernet from router to PC. :smashin:
69426
There are no Telewest Modems that support 100Mbps. The fastest ones ive seen are 32Mbps. If you get a 20Mbps service then Telewest send out a new Modem that supports that speed, but the default ones provided are 10.
I knew about this before my installation and specifically asked the installer if I upgraded to 20Mbps service would the modem handle it.
"Yes", he said "all the modems supplied now can handle the 20Mbps Virgin service".
But my experience with VM installers (not including the very helpful ones I've
met on this forum ) have been that they are mostly a bunch of :censored: :censored:. So this was probably false information.:rolleyes:

So do you rekon this is why its showing 10Mbps because the NTL Home 250 modem doesn't support anything faster. So I'll defo need to get a replacement modem when I upgrade to the 20Mbps service? :(
TIA

[Colin Taylor]

Hi steery1,

That's a perfect status report. Nothing to worry about. Everything connected at full speed with no collisions (apart from a negligible amount on the gigabit, which is normal).

With regards to the reported 10Mbps speed, I googled around and it appears to be a feature with these routers that they mis-report the speed.

Have a look here: http://forum1.netgear.com/showthread.php?t=17902 and there's more stuff on cableforum and the like.

As the guys say on the other forums - even though it SAYS 10Mbps, doing a speed test reveals that it's actually downloading at over 18Mbps (i.e. full speed).

So, in summary. Don't worry about it. Upgrade to 20Mbps if you want and then test the download speed. If you're not getting 20Mbps then complain to VM 'cos it's their problem and they need to fix it (probably by sending out a newer modem).

[steery1]

Hi steery1,

That's a perfect status report. Nothing to worry about. Everything connected at full speed with no collisions (apart from a negligible amount on the gigabit, which is normal).

With regards to the reported 10Mbps speed, I googled around and it appears to be a feature with these routers that they mis-report the speed.

Have a look here: http://forum1.netgear.com/showthread.php?t=17902 and there's more stuff on cableforum and the like.

As the guys say on the other forums - even though it SAYS 10Mbps, doing a speed test reveals that it's actually downloading at over 18Mbps (i.e. full speed).

So, in summary. Don't worry about it. Upgrade to 20Mbps if you want and then test the download speed. If you're not getting 20Mbps then complain to VM 'cos it's their problem and they need to fix it (probably by sending out a newer modem).

Seems like that guy reported exactly the same as me with the same router even though he was receiving over 10Mbps.
Seems I might be OK.
Thanks for your help Colin :clap:

[billsinc]

Mercury KOB (http://www.ciao.co.uk/Kobian_Mercury_KOB_BR100_cable_router__Review_5465 743)
This is what I have, seems to work OK but generally I get between 11 & 14

[ndavies4]

After reading this and looking around the web, I bought this yesterday:

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/903397

Seems a decent deal, as best elsewhere seems to be about £70ish plus post. Don't forget the £10 M&S voucher which you can get at the moment too:

http://www.dlinkpromo.com/q4downloads/Wireless_Claim_Form.pdf

How you getting on with this new router?

My problem:
==========
Am on the VM 20mb service, but only get about 7mb when wire connected to the modem (Motorola 5100). If I go via my router though (D-Link DI-624+), download speed drops to not much more than 56k! and that's for both wireless or wired (i.e. ethernet cable from modem to router then another from port 1 of router into laptop).

Called VM to moan about the via router speed and they obviously said the router's the problem. Called D-Link Tech Supp today and they said the 624+ is not a good router to be using with the VM service. They proposed I buy a DIR-635 - hense my interest in your post.

Also if this is a good router to use with VM BB, did you not consider going for the DKT-410 package? see 'http://www.morecomputers.co.uk/extra.asp?pn=DKT%2D410' (http://www.morecomputers.co.uk/extra.asp?pn=DKT%2D410) Looks a good deal as I see from your 2nd link above that this'll get you a £20 M&S voucher.

Regards,
Neil