Panasonic DMP-BD10 new sound format decoding

[MoFoHo]

Hi all! I (finally!) managed the new (V 2.0) firmware update for the Panny yesterday. I have Fantastic 4 on Blu-ray. It has a DTS-MA soundtrack. Now before the firmware update, the Panny presumably just replayed the 'core' DTS track and sent it as bitstream through HDMI to my amp (it displayed DTS). Now it shows as 'multi channel' through HDMI?? I know the Panny can now decode Dolby Digital +, Dolby Digital True HD, and DTS HD-HR and presumably send these soundtrack as LPCM through HDMI (or out of the analog outputs). But I didnt think that DTS HD-HR is compatible at all with DTS-MA. So the question is, what was the amp decoding?? Also, in the menus, the option is there to send Dolby Digital +, Dolby Digital True HD and DTS-HD HR as BITSTREAM, which should be impossible as the Panny doesnt have HDMI 1.3? Any thoughts from other Panny owners?

[mremulator]

Originally Posted by MoFoHo

Hi all! I (finally!) managed the new (V 2.0) firmware update for the Panny yesterday. I have Fantastic 4 on Blu-ray. It has a DTS-MA soundtrack. Now before the firmware update, the Panny presumably just replayed the 'core' DTS track and sent it as bitstream through HDMI to my amp (it displayed DTS). Now it shows as 'multi channel' through HDMI?? I know the Panny can now decode Dolby Digital +, Dolby Digital True HD, and DTS HD-HR and presumably send these soundtrack as LPCM through HDMI (or out of the analog outputs). But I didnt think that DTS HD-HR is compatible at all with DTS-MA. So the question is, what was the amp decoding?? Also, in the menus, the option is there to send Dolby Digital +, Dolby Digital True HD and DTS-HD HR as BITSTREAM, which should be impossible as the Panny doesnt have HDMI 1.3? Any thoughts from other Panny owners?

The "Bitstream" option also applies to the coaxial & optical outputs. HDMI 1.3 is not required to pass the new decoded formats as LPCM to a receiver, only bitstream (no receivers currently available anyway). The Panasonic has HDMI 1.2 which is capable of outputting the already decoded DTS-HD MA (core only) as LPCM to any compatible receiver.

This is how to set your player up:

DD: Bit Stream (receiver to decode)
DD+: PCM (player to decode)
TrueHD: PCM (player to decode)
DTS: Bit Stream (receiver to decode)
DTS-HD: PCM (player to decode)

In addition, these settings have no effect whatsoever on the analogue outputs, only HDMI, coaxial & optical.

Hope this helps.

[MoFoHo]

So what is happening when I play back the DTS-MA track on Fantastic 4, and it outputs as multichannel LPCM through the HDMI? What is DTS-HD then, is it on any discs as yet?

[Mr_Sukebe]

Originally Posted by mremulator

This is how to set your player up:

DD: Bit Stream (receiver to decode)
DD+: PCM (player to decode)
TrueHD: PCM (player to decode)
DTS: Bit Stream (receiver to decode)
DTS-HD: PCM (player to decode)

Interesting to know, thanks for that.
One question, wouldn't it be easier to set the BD player to decode all of the formats and output them as LPCM? Would there be any sound quality impact of doing this?

[henryv]

What's it sound like?
Is there a big difference?

Henry.

Originally Posted by MoFoHo

Hi all! I (finally!) managed the new (V 2.0) firmware update for the Panny yesterday. I have Fantastic 4 on Blu-ray. It has a DTS-MA soundtrack. Now before the firmware update, the Panny presumably just replayed the 'core' DTS track and sent it as bitstream through HDMI to my amp (it displayed DTS). Now it shows as 'multi channel' through HDMI?? I know the Panny can now decode Dolby Digital +, Dolby Digital True HD, and DTS HD-HR and presumably send these soundtrack as LPCM through HDMI (or out of the analog outputs). But I didnt think that DTS HD-HR is compatible at all with DTS-MA. So the question is, what was the amp decoding?? Also, in the menus, the option is there to send Dolby Digital +, Dolby Digital True HD and DTS-HD HR as BITSTREAM, which should be impossible as the Panny doesnt have HDMI 1.3? Any thoughts from other Panny owners?

[henryv]

How should the player be set up if I don't upgrade to
2.0. I am on 1.4 at the moment and am not sure whether to upload and lose my multiregion?
Thank you.

Henry.

Originally Posted by mremulator

The "Bitstream" option also applies to the coaxial & optical outputs. HDMI 1.3 is not required to pass the new decoded formats as LPCM to a receiver, only bitstream (no receivers currently available anyway). The Panasonic has HDMI 1.2 which is capable of outputting the already decoded DTS-HD MA (core only) as LPCM to any compatible receiver.

This is how to set your player up:

DD: Bit Stream (receiver to decode)
DD+: PCM (player to decode)
TrueHD: PCM (player to decode)
DTS: Bit Stream (receiver to decode)
DTS-HD: PCM (player to decode)

In addition, these settings have no effect whatsoever on the analogue outputs, only HDMI, coaxial & optical.

Hope this helps.

[MoFoHo]

Originally Posted by henryv

What's it sound like?
Is there a big difference?

Henry.

Well it sounds louder! We're watching Fantastic 4 as I type this! But I'd really like to know why I'm getting multichannel (presumably) LPCM sent through HDMI when playing back a DTS-MA track. The Panny certainly cant decode the DTS-MA track? Anybody else done the latest firmware upgrade?

[Nic Rhodes]

You are still hearing 'core bit rates' from the DTS HD MA track. HDMI multi channel is just core decoded to PCM and outputted. There has been no basic increase in quality though the decoding may well ahve 'improved / cahanged slightly'.

[MoFoHo]

"The Panasonic has HDMI 1.2 which is capable of outputting the already decoded DTS-HD MA (core only) as LPCM to any compatible receiver. " Ah, so the DTS 'core' cant be sent as bitstream? Yet before the upgrade the Panny clearly sent a DTS bitstream through HDMI? So these new options only affect the optical/coaxial outputs?

[mremulator]

Originally Posted by MoFoHo

"The Panasonic has HDMI 1.2 which is capable of outputting the already decoded DTS-HD MA (core only) as LPCM to any compatible receiver. " Ah, so the DTS 'core' cant be sent as bitstream? Yet before the upgrade the Panny clearly sent a DTS bitstream through HDMI? So these new options only affect the optical/coaxial outputs?

Exactly, DD & DTS can be passed via HDMI 1.2 or even HDMI 1.1 as bitstream, just not the new formats (TrueHD/DTS-HD). The player also knows the difference between a standard DTS track and a DTS-HD MA track, this is why there are options for both DTS & DTS-HD, the same applies for DD, DD+ & TrueHD. Try this... set DTS to "bitstream", pop in a regular DVD with a DTS soundtrack and your receiver will decode it as DTS not PCM. Now change DTS-HD setting to either bitstream or PCM and it won't make the slightest difference to the DTS setting. What I'm getting at is the fact that this player can tell the difference between a DTS track and a DTS core track extracted from DTS-HD.

When HDMI 1.3 receivers become available with TrueHD & DTS-HD decoder chips, you will be able to change all the settings to "bitstream" on the DMP-BD10A that has HDMI 1.3. However, it depends on the quality of the receiver and the player. If you have a really good player (like the Panasonic), with good quality DAC's then you may prefer to set everything to PCM and send the audio out already decoded.

The best audio on any BD discs I've heard so far is LPCM on Casino Royale and The Departed.... sounds superb on my Arcam AVR300 via analogue in. The centre channel really come alive and the separation is noticeably better and more defined.

[MoFoHo]

Originally Posted by mremulator

Exactly, DD & DTS can be passed via HDMI 1.2 or even HDMI 1.1 as bitstream, just not the new formats (TrueHD/DTS-HD). The player also knows the difference between a standard DTS track and a DTS-HD MA track, this is why there are options for both DTS & DTS-HD, the same applies for DD, DD+ & TrueHD. Try this... set DTS to "bitstream", pop in a regular DVD with a DTS soundtrack and your receiver will decode it as DTS not PCM. Now change DTS-HD setting to either bitstream or PCM and it won't make the slightest difference to the DTS setting. What I'm getting at is the fact that this player can tell the difference between a DTS track and a DTS core track extracted from DTS-HD.

When HDMI 1.3 receivers become available with TrueHD & DTS-HD decoder chips, you will be able to change all the settings to "bitstream" on the DMP-BD10A that has HDMI 1.3. However, it depends on the quality of the receiver and the player. If you have a really good player (like the Panasonic), with good quality DAC's then you may prefer to set everything to PCM and send the audio out already decoded.

The best audio on any BD discs I've heard so far is LPCM on Casino Royale and The Departed.... sounds superb on my Arcam AVR300 via analogue in. The centre channel really come alive and the separation is noticeably better and more defined.

I have the following setings:
PCM Down Conversion:Off
Dolby Digital:Bitstream
Dolby Digital Plus/Dolby true HD:PCM
DTS:Bitstream
DTS-HD:PCM
MPEG:PCM
When I play Fantastic 4 (which has a DTS-HD MA track) before the firmware update, it sent a DTS soundtrack through HDMI to my amp. Now, after the firmware update it is showing as multichannel (PCM). Does this mean the Panny is internally decoding the 'core' DTS track, at higher quality? Before it was mearly sending a vanilla DTS track. Is the 'core' track not able to be sent as Bitstream?
Is this a little like Dolby Digital + on HD-DVDs? Through optical/coaxial its downmixed and sent as vanilla Dolby Digital, but through HDMI (or analog out) the decoding is done 'in player' then sent out as multichannel LPCM?
These audio formats are so confusing!

[mremulator]

Originally Posted by MoFoHo

I have the following setings:
PCM Down Conversion:Off
Dolby Digital:Bitstream
Dolby Digital Plus/Dolby true HD:PCM
DTS:Bitstream
DTS-HD:PCM
MPEG:PCM
When I play Fantastic 4 (which has a DTS-HD MA track) before the firmware update, it sent a DTS soundtrack through HDMI to my amp. Now, after the firmware update it is showing as multichannel (PCM). Does this mean the Panny is internally decoding the 'core' DTS track, at higher quality? Before it was mearly sending a vanilla DTS track. Is the 'core' track not able to be sent as Bitstream?
Is this a little like Dolby Digital + on HD-DVDs? Through optical/coaxial its downmixed and sent as vanilla Dolby Digital, but through HDMI (or analog out) the decoding is done 'in player' then sent out as multichannel LPCM?
These audio formats are so confusing!

Like I said, the player can now tell the difference between DTS and DTS-HD MA, though only the core DTS track will be passed to your receiver via HDMI. Change the setting for DTS-HD to bitstream and tell me what happens. Either nothing will be sent or you will get the core track as with firmware 1.4. It's quite simple really... either bitstream for the receiver to decode (if compatible) or PCM for the player to decode.

Don't worry, everyone is finding the numerous flavors of DTS-HD confusing!

[MoFoHo]

Well thanks for your help on all this. What are your impressions of the Panny? I went for this over the Sony (standalone) and Samsung (despite a new Samsung player just around the corner). The Panny also recognises DTS-CD's! Remember those?! (A pre-cursor to DVD/SACD [er, remember THOSE as well?! lol]) It displays DTS-CD on the display!
And what are your impressiona overall for the Blu-ray format, may I ask? Since I see that like me you have access to both formats.

[mremulator]

Originally Posted by MoFoHo

Well thanks for your help on all this. What are your impressions of the Panny? I went for this over the Sony (standalone) and Samsung (despite a new Samsung player just around the corner). The Panny also recognises DTS-CD's! Remember those?! (A pre-cursor to DVD/SACD [er, remember THOSE as well?! lol]) It displays DTS-CD on the display!
And what are your impressiona overall for the Blu-ray format, may I ask? Since I see that like me you have access to both formats.

I think it's the best of all the Blu Ray players, however, it would be even better if it supported 1080/24. I think the Ultimate machine will be the Pioneer... if they ever release it that is!

Yes I'm fortunate enough to have HD DVD, PS3 & the Panny. The Panny is not only the best out of the 3, but also the best I have actually seen and I've seen them all excluding the new Sammy.

[MoFoHo]

I've seen the Pioneer (an import obviously) in action, and was impressed. So no thoughts on the Sony standalones then?