View Full Version : Windows (XP/Vista) on Macbook.
f13ldy
01-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Is anyone here running a MS OS on their Mac.
I need a new laptop, and already have 2 Macs in the house and wondered if I should go for a PC over a Mac for compatability purposes. I tend to use some little useful freeware software that is .exe based and won't run on my Mac. Then it dawned on me that I could run a MS OS on an intel based Mac.
Is anyone here running it? Any problems/view/annoying habits etc? Is it basically like having a PC in my hand, with regards to adding USB periphirals as well? (i.e. not having to eject them?)
(Also anyone ever bought a re-furb product from Apple? What was it like, condition wise etc...)
Thanks
James.
SeedyR
01-03-2007, 10:40 AM
I've used Windows on a Mac every now and again, and seemed to work fine. I did notice that the Mac itself does run a little hotter while in Windows, so maybe wouldn't leave it on for prolonged periods.
Note that boot camp is still not the final verison, the proper version of it will be included in Leopard (coming out before June) or you will be able to buy the final version of boot camp on it's own. So some bugs that it may have, will probably be ironed out then.
Have you checked to see if the software you need is definitely not available for a Mac? I'd have a good look about, as since making a switch, I have always either found the same bit of software for the Mac, either by the same company, or an alternate version which usually actually does the job better than it did on the pc!
I've never bought anything from the apple store refurbished, however I have generally heard good things. I believe you still get a years warranty (correct me if i'm wrong) and if you don't mind a bit of cosmetic damage (some apparently however are spotless) then I think you'll be fine. I don't think they always come with the official apple box either, however you do seem to save a fair bit. I probably would have gone with one if it hadn't been for my student discount (got £230 off a MacBook Pro and free 3 year apple care) :rotfl:
sinizterguy
01-03-2007, 10:46 AM
You need the new Intel Macs to run Windows on as the only OS. With Virtualisation software running in the Mac OS you might be able to get Windows working on older Macs.
f13ldy
01-03-2007, 10:47 AM
Cheers for the information mate.
Yeah it's PSP software, for backing up my UMD's I can't find it anywhere. Plus the way the Mac handles USB periphirals makes it pretty hard to work/impossible to work with.
I don't think I'd leave it on for extended periods in Boot Camp. I'd be loading it,using it, then switching back to the Mac OS. So that shouldn't cas any problems.
Yeah, the refurbs have a year warranty, I'd rather do that than buy 2nd hand, with a saving of around £200 on the Macbook.
f13ldy
01-03-2007, 10:50 AM
You need the new Intel Macs to run Windows on as the only OS. With Virtualisation software running in the Mac OS you might be able to get Windows working on older Macs.
Thanks mate. I'm looking at the intel Macs.
What is virtualisation software? I'm was only aware of Boot Camp and Virtual PC from Microsoft to run XP/Vista on my iMac.
Would it be possible to get Xp on my G5 non intel based Mac?
Monopot
01-03-2007, 11:00 AM
Yeah it's PSP software, for backing up my UMD's I can't find it anywhere. Plus the way the Mac handles USB periphirals makes it pretty hard to work/impossible to work with.
For PSP software mate try http://www.nullriver.com/index/products/pspware is great on the Mac.
I have XP on BootCamp and XP on Parallels. I only used BootCamp for running games on but I use the Xbox more for this now.
I would get Parallels if I was you. http://www.parallels.com. Works a total treat and the best virtualisation software you can get atm. XP runs like lightning in it and recognises all my USB devices from it without issue. I used this the other day to flash my PSP to the latest open firmware. The only thing you don't want to use it for is games as its no 3D accelerated yet, but this is coming in a future version.
Try it, you might like it :grin:
Would it be possible to get Xp on my G5 non intel based Mac?
Yes you can with MS Virtual PC but its SO SO SO slow its not worth bothering with.
All the decent virtualisation now is on Intel Macs. Apps like Parallels use the dual core so 1 core runs OSx while the other core runs your virtualised XP instance. Lightning!
f13ldy
01-03-2007, 11:38 AM
Right I think that's just confirmed I'll get an intel Macbook.
With PSPWare does that allow me to back my UMD's up to ISO? As instead of lugging all the games around I just memory stick/laptop/dvd with ISO's. Simple.
But since converting to Mac I've not been able to do it :(
I've a 360 and a PS3 for my gaming needs so that's not a problem. Although one problem will be getting a copy of Windows XP/Vista to install.
Kieron
01-03-2007, 12:17 PM
I use Parallels. With the new coherence mode you don't even see the XP background/desktop - apps appear as OSX apps and you can drag them into the dock.
Amazing piece of software.
I've bought two machines from the refurbished store in the past.
The first one was an iMac G4 which was absolutely immaculate, the only difference between it and a new one being that it came in a brown cardboard box, rather than the usual apple packaging. Also, buying from the refurbished store did not seem to affect its resale value when I later sold it on eBay, despite it being clearly stated in the listing.
The second one was a PowerBook G4, which I'm still using. This had a slight scratch on the underneath, only visible if the light caught it in the right way, and the leads and manuals had not been repackaged, but otherwise it was excellent. After seven months the display failed, but it was replaced under warranty and this could have happened with a new machine.
I'm currently looking at buying a MacBook Pro from the refurbished store, but the price of the 2nd gen models are still a bit steep and the first gen models seemed problematic. I think I'll wait for the 3rd gen models to be released, which should knock the value of the 2nd gen models down a bit more, after a few months.
Also I noticed that Comet and Currys were offering some really good discounts on the 1st gen models when the 2nd gen ones were released, so if your timings right you might be able to get a bit of a bargain on a new model. If I remember correctly the basic MacBook Pro, which retailed at £1399, was available for £1049 from Comet.
f13ldy
01-03-2007, 1:58 PM
Cheers AJB.
I've been looking at the 2 differences between new and refurbed and the specs are pretty different.
Macbook in Black.
Refurb - 512mb memory, Core Duo chip, 2mb Cache.
New - 1gb Mem, Core 2 Duo, 4mb cache.
How much in real terms will the difference in speed be??? Also is the black one worth the extra money over the 2.0ghz white one?
Memory makes quite a big difference to the speed of Mac's, 512Mb is adequate, but 1Gb is recommended. The other thing to remember is that MacBooks have two memory slots and use half the memory in each slot, so to upgrade you would have to remove one of the memory modules.
As far as I can see, other than the colour and price, the only difference between the top spec white version and the black one is the size of the hard drive, 80Gb to 120Gb with the 2nd gen models and 60Gb to 80Gb with 1st gen models. I have heard some people say that although the black versions look cool, they do show up dust and fingerprints more than the white ones and the difference in price does seem too high.
I would be more concerned with any problems associated with the 1st gen machines. I know from looking at the forums, on the Apple website, that the 1st gen MacBook Pro seemed to have a lot of problems, the 2nd gen seems much better, but I'm not sure if the same applies to MacBooks.
The following website has some useful information -
www.macintouch.com
Under special reports, a little way down on the right-hand side, there are reports on MacBook Reliability and also a Mac Performance Comparison.
I should also have said that whilst there are no MacBook Core2duos (latest model) in the refuribshed store at the moment there have been in the past, just keeping checking everyday.
For the past week there were no MacBook Pro Core2duos, but they've now reappeared.
SeedyR
01-03-2007, 5:04 PM
I wouldn't get anything less than 1gb in a MacBook. A few of my mates only have 512gb, and their machines ground to a halt quite a bit, just with photoshop and average size files.
LFCRules
01-03-2007, 5:17 PM
Apologies for the obvious question, but to get both Windows and OS/X on a macbook means paying for a Windows licence right? And this costs a couple of hundred more??
After paying Apple £1699 for a Macbook Pro (top of my wishlist at the moment), it is a bit galling having to pay M$ even more money to get a few other appls to run on the Macbook :rolleyes:
You can't blame Apple for that though....or even M$.
You can however get a Windows OEM license for around £70.
Porcelain Gods
01-03-2007, 7:07 PM
crossover is another virtualisation software tool that you can use on the Intel macs. Unlike virtual pc and other packages it doesn't require you to purchase & install the full 2000/xp operating system. It's also pretty cheap at $60 and there is eval available for download. I've been trying out the eval lately using dbpoweramp software to transcode apple lossless files to flac, it seems to work pretty well although I dont think all MS software will work with it
http://www.codeweavers.com/
Monopot
02-03-2007, 9:27 AM
Cheers AJB.
I've been looking at the 2 differences between new and refurbed and the specs are pretty different.
Macbook in Black.
Refurb - 512mb memory, Core Duo chip, 2mb Cache.
New - 1gb Mem, Core 2 Duo, 4mb cache.
How much in real terms will the difference in speed be??? Also is the black one worth the extra money over the 2.0ghz white one?
If you can, then go for the Core 2 Duo. Its faster, 64bit, and less power hungry than the Core Duo, not by much but its noticeable.
RAM is a big thing on Macs as well. My stock MacBook with 512mb was great but I got 2gb from the states on eBay for £99 delivered and it was like another machine! :)
f13ldy
02-03-2007, 9:40 AM
I reckon it'll have to be the Core 2 version.
Just whether or not refurbed now. I'll give it a week or so to see if any appear on there, if not I'll go new...
LFCRules
11-03-2007, 2:51 PM
You can't blame Apple for that though....or even M$.
You can however get a Windows OEM license for around £70.
How's this price for a parallels based system, XP home OEM + Parallels for £101.46 (half way down the page):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000JTFVME/ref=amb_link_21898965_3/026-3229244-6955666
I would suggest that it would be cheaper (or very close) to buy direct from Parallels and a Windows Vista/ or XP Home from ebuyer or such like.
I'm in the process of the Parallel trial and I'm pretty impressed. I'm using my Bootcamp partition for XP which is very slick.
I also have a Vista Virtual machine which is an excellent way to test things without a lot of fiddling with Bootcamp (and my other PC isn't really up to the task of Vista).
Could do with 2gb Ram in my Macbook though
fraggle
16-03-2007, 12:14 PM
The main reason for me buying my MBP (17", C2D) was to run XP on it via BootCamp.
It does it very well, main (small) problems I've found have been:-
Runs hotter when running XP than OSX
The power schemes are wierd, can't remember now but IIRC the only one that runs at full tilt all the time is the Minimum Power Management one.
Having a single button trackpad is bl$$dy frustrating.
Not having a backspace AND delete key is also maddening.
The hardware drivers aren't fully integrated yet, ferinstance the screen brightness defaults to full on everytime you boot XP.
But overall, I like it.
Haven't tried Parallels yet - I suspect if I installed XP on it and tried to use the same key I used to install it under BootCamp, it wouldn't accept it (different hardware, real vs. Parallels simulated hardware)
BenchyUK
16-03-2007, 2:47 PM
Has anyone got Vista working on an imac or something simlar yet?
Monopot
16-03-2007, 6:30 PM
Has anyone got Vista working on an imac or something simlar yet?
Going to try this weekend but yes a lot of people have according to the mac forums out there. Will let you know how I get on.
LFCRules
16-03-2007, 7:30 PM
I've ordered Vista home edition OEM, with Parallels, to have a go on my new MBP 15". Should be fun, my first OSX system, and I've never used Vista before, a recipie for disaster :rotfl:
BenchyUK
16-03-2007, 11:01 PM
Going to try this weekend but yes a lot of people have according to the mac forums out there. Will let you know how I get on.
Cool. Interested to hear how it turns out. If it works well then i may get a Mac with a bigger Hard Drive and dual boot Leopard with Vista
itsamac
19-03-2007, 8:56 PM
Has anyone got Vista working on an imac or something simlar yet?
I have Vista Ultimate running on my macbook pro. I had issues with the wireless N card and the built in iSight camera (still do). To resolve the wireless card, I had to extract the drivers from the installer package (use the /a /v switches). The iSight camera doesn't work with the final release of Windows Vista. The power management also doesn't work properly as per XP.
Aero is cool but overall, IMO, it doesn't feel like a finished product.
my macbook 2gig coreduo, 1gb ram, 200gb harddisk dual boots tiger and Vista Ultimate already :) Set it up yesterday. Runs Vista with no lag at all, I'm actually quite impressed. Only problem I've come across is that if you let vista send your macbook to sleep then when it wakes up the trackpad doesn't work. There are apparently ways around this but I haven't managed to get any of them to work. Once a proper driver is released from apple for the trackpad I'm sure it'll be fine.
FWIW PCWorld has Parallels for 39.99 on the shelves at the moment - cheaper than buying direct on line or through the Apple Store - will update to latest version when you first register/boot up ...
Jon
ahin4114
21-03-2007, 10:04 AM
crossover is another virtualisation software tool that you can use on the Intel macs. Unlike virtual pc and other packages it doesn't require you to purchase & install the full 2000/xp operating system. It's also pretty cheap at $60 and there is eval available for download. I've been trying out the eval lately using dbpoweramp software to transcode apple lossless files to flac, it seems to work pretty well although I dont think all MS software will work with it
http://www.codeweavers.com/
Worth mentioning that crossover is just a mac specific branch of the Wine (http://www.winehq.org/) code tree. If you want the latest Wine branch, and don't mind messing with the terminal window a bit, you can compile the Wine source code (http://wiki.winehq.org/MacOSX/Building) using XCode on the new intel macs and install it - free, or use Darwine (http://darwine.opendarwin.org/) on PPC models. Not for the feint hearted, but you can be sure of the latest fixes and updates that way.
I shall be trying the latest release on my Intel iMac this weekend, so should be able to report next week on how it goes.
ancientgeek
24-03-2007, 11:33 AM
I have Windows runing under Parallels the whole time. I use Windows 2000 because I don't need anything more, and there's no WGA reactivation nonsense.
My Trial of Parallels just ran out. Now i have to
1. Shutdown Mac OS X
2. Turn on Mac, hold down ALT, choose Windows and boot
3. Quickly do windows based tasks
4. Shut down Windows, reboot to Mac OS X
What a pain - just re-enforcing why I should buy Parallels now!!
FWIW PCWorld has Parallels for 39.99 on the shelves at the moment - cheaper than buying direct on line or through the Apple Store - will update to latest version when you first register/boot up ...
Jon
Do you have a web link to their website for that...even if I have to go pick it up? I could do getting Parallels today!!