50 gig hddvd discs on the way

[supermackem]

thats the news coming out of ces. Good news but we need more info will these play on current decks etc.

[mattym]

someone demoing the 200gb BD disks too...lots of very clever coasters coming soon i feel

[Angry the Clown]

Interesting news, but it appears to be all talk at the moment in the want to make some noise at CES.

From Amir at AVS:

The format is actually 51 gigabytes (17 gigabytes/layer). And it is just at technology proposal at this point. They would need to submit it to DVD Forum for approval. Once we are through that cycle, then one can determine whether it plays or does not (DVD Forum may modify their proposal before ratification).

__________________
Amir
Microsoft
HD DVD insider
VC-1 insider in BD/HD DVD



"Does or does not" incidentally was in reference to whether such a disc would play on existing product drives.

[mattym]

would a three layer disc work with all the machines out now, and whats the point of 50gb, we are constantly being told that 30gb is enough...

[Angry the Clown]

Originally Posted by mattym

and whats the point of 50gb, we are constantly being told that 30gb is enough...

One might imagine to woo certain content providers who are so adamant about 50gb capacity over from "the other side"... If these discs cannot be shown to work on existing players then the DVD Forum won't adopt them and they'll never see the light of day for pre-recorded HD DVD media. Really nothing much about this announcement appears any more solid than the "hey, we can do 45gb discs" non-news 'news' from a previous year.

[mmace]

the 50Gb discs are not part of the HD-DVD spec so will not work on standalones, it's probably for using as a data disc in a computer, same as the multi-layer BD's

[Angry the Clown]

Originally Posted by mmace

the 50Gb discs are not part of the HD-DVD spec so will not work on standalones, it's probably for using as a data disc in a computer, same as the multi-layer BD's

The claim is for both writable AND ROM media. That still does not mean such discs will work in existing hardware though, as I have noted myself.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by mattym

someone demoing the 200gb BD disks too...lots of very clever coasters coming soon i feel

Yea they can go to 800 layers. There well on the way as a commercial proposition as they've almost cracked 2 layers so far.

Originally Posted by mattym

would a three layer disc work with all the machines out now, and whats the point of 50gb, we are constantly being told that 30gb is enough...

BD was designed first and foremost for PC storage and not for movie playback. Hence all the issues getting BD-J out etc. For movies the main reason for 50GB media was to fit an mpeg2 movie (according to blu-raydisc.com) beacuse VC1/AVC would be a compromise and reduce PQ. I guess history will show reality got in the way of that then -

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_i...564/Index.html

"Also on the application layer, the HD-DVD format incorporates many compromises. As the capacity is not likely to be sufficient to encode a full-length feature plus additional bonus materials using the MPEG-2 format, different and stronger encoding formats need to be used. Although Blu-ray Disc offers these advanced codecs as well, the disc has such high capacity that publishers can still use the MPEG-2 encoding format at bitrates up to 54 Mbit/sec. As MPEG-2 is the de-facto standard used in almost any industry involved in digital video (DVD, HDTV, digital broadcast), many authoring solutions are available. Chances are high that a full line MPEG-2 encoding suite is already available, which can be used with no or minor adaptations to encode High Definition content for Blu-ray Disc."

HD DVD was designed first and foremost for movie playback. Although 45gb was available from day 1 storage of more than 30gb was not taken up by the studios according to HD DVD sources. I guess HD DVD is now offering a PC storage alernative to BD.

AVI

[Nic Rhodes]

A HD DVD disc also doing 51Gb to match BD 50Gb would make allot of sense. If this format war is to continue, it would at least allow allot more porting of HD DVD to BD and vica versa so discs in both formats could have the same content. I think that would win many friends in consumers.

[Dave2]

Yea the highest a BD player will ever use will be 50gig for movies as anything beyond that would need proccessing and would take time for it to do this , i think hd-dvd can go up to 3 layers 45 gig but current hd-dvd players have no support for it.

[gixxerman]

Looks like HD-DVD just got the biggest one in town!

HD DVD has a 51 gb disk

http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/003423.html

- If you want/need the most capacity you have to go HD-DVD. Kind of ironic.

Now it'll be interesting to find out if existing players will use these (one Toshiba connected source here said yes, they just need a frmware upgrade and another said no).

If 4 layer is the current theoretical limit will we ever see 68gb discs?
Or is that about as likely as us ever seeing 100gb or 200gb Blu-ray discs, in the mass-market place (and usable by retail players/PCs)?

[gandley]

Keep in mind that this has not even gone before the dvd forum to be voted in or accepted, at this time is a technology launch much the same as TL45 was and look where that went.

would be great if this gets accepted, i doubt there will be any issues with the gen2 players, but there may be issues with G1 players. If all goes well we may see these late 2007 early 2008.

but i thought 30gig was good enough, seems like those comments make zero sense now that all along tosh was working hard to get 50GB discs out the door. Suckers

[gandley]

i think HD-DVD will get a bitrate increase at the same time, by spinning the disc at 1.5x. gen1 may struggle but gen2 machines should be ok as so shoild the 360 add on, just a firmware update hopfully.

The only thing i dont like is all the HD-DVD insiders going on how HD30 is all you need, our codec is the biz when all along they new tosh had HD51 in the works. Not clever, not clever at all. Amir you truly suxx on this one. more so as it was you who claimed BD50 was vapourware or some such nonsense. My faith in your words have been very much dented lately by your comments on AVS. Shame and harsh on my part, but i think this whole Insider thing has become an extended marketing tool and nothing more. and many seem to be waking up too that now (rant over) So any other news?

Oh and HD51 becomes standard and the bitrate does increase this is excellent news for the format...now will disney bite, because there BD lineup would look nice on HD DVD and HD-DVD looks sad without it.

[Rasczak]

Originally Posted by gandley

i thought 30gig was good enough

IMHO 30GB is enough - and I'm not convinced we'll ever actually see anything else for HD DVD-Video. If HD DVD has a bottleneck it is the max bitrate - not the capacity - and this doesn't seem to be causing too many limitations in the real world.

I'm not sure this 51GB disc is little more than a publicity measure designed to appease a population obsessed with capacity - even if it's not used. I mean 51GB - I'm convinced it's been given that capacity just so HD DVD fans can assume the high ground over BD50 fans.

[gandley]

30 GB is not enough, king kong and superman returns are evidence of that i feel. More can only be better, but the timing its either as you say a publicity thing or Disney or someone said "when you have 50GB we may join you." thus the incentice to get it out.

My guess is this may happen.

bitrate will be increased as the plan isl to spin the disc at 1.5x evidently