What is the best ARcam amp and preamp to mate with the CD192?

[dead of night]

Hi. I own the Arcam CD192 and would like to build a that consists of all Arcam components. I'd like to buy an amp and preamp equal to the quality of the CD 192. I only want a 2 channel stereo system.

What components would you recommend and can you direct me to a site with copious reviews of these components?

[mpmct]

Originally Posted by dead of night

Hi. I own the Arcam CD192 and would like to build a that consists of all Arcam components. I'd like to buy an amp and preamp equal to the quality of the CD 192. I only want a 2 channel stereo system.

What components would you recommend and can you direct me to a site with copious reviews of these components?

FWIW, my experience/thoughts ...
I owned a 192, with an A70, driving MA GS 10s, and
found the ensemble to be really something. Mind you, this was
a system for a small room, so never had need to turn it
very loud. I've since traded up to FMJ 36, 31 and P1s,
so I have some upward perspective, so to speak.
I found the 192/A70/GS 10 conglomeration to be
incredible bang for the buck. ( US buck that is. )
Some days I wish I'd kept it for a second system!
The A70 I think, is a really great value, if your circumstances fit.
The 192... of course, an awesome CD player.

[LPspinner]

Hi there Dead of knight:

First off: Its good to see people actually buying HiFi for music and not home theatre surround sound stuff.

Like mpmct, I would look else where before getting a pre-amp. I would advise going for a better source component before I start looking at Amps and speakers.

Get the FMJ CD36 first before going for a C31 preamp with either the P35 Power amp or the P1 monblocks.

I’m mot saying the CD192 is a bad CD player, its just that because the C31 / P35 combo is so open and revealing all it is going to do is show up the deficiencies in the CD192.

LPSPinner

[dead of night]

Originally Posted by LPspinner

Hi there Dead of knight:
I would advise going for a better source component before I start looking at Amps and speakers.

Get the FMJ CD36 first....
I’m mot saying the CD192 is a bad CD player, its just that because the C31 / P35 combo is so open and revealing all it is going to do is show up the deficiencies in the CD192.

LPSPinner

I respectfully disagree with this, let me explain why: the internal components of the CD192 are identical to the FMJ36. Granted, the outside casing of the 36 is heavier and more beautiful but saying that the 36 sounds better for this reason is like saying that a red car is faster than a blue car because red is a faster color. The dac and other important components of the 192 are as good as it gets within the Arcam family of CDPs.

[LPspinner]

Originally Posted by dead of night

I respectfully disagree with this, let me explain why: the internal components of the CD192 are identical to the FMJ36. Granted, the outside casing of the 36 is heavier and more beautiful but saying that the 36 sounds better for this reason is like saying that a red car is faster than a blue car because red is a faster color. The dac and other important components of the 192 are as good as it gets within the Arcam family of CDPs.

Shush and be quite: we don’t want every body to know that.

You know that and I know that as well, the internals of the CD192 and the CD36 are almost identical. They both use the same Sony sourced transport, same upsampling Muti-dac output stage and they both measure up identically on the test bench. The only actual differences between the two players are that the CD36 has a more complex and better isolated power supply and the FMJ casing (a quick search on the internet will reveal internal shots of both players), so in theory they should sound the same. In practice however the CD36 seems to sound a little bit more open and detailed but it is only by a very subtle margin. The thing is, these subtle differences become more noticeable as you start to use higher resolution equipment further up the chain. Since the C31 / P1 mono-blocks have much more resolving power than say an A90 or an A32 you might start to hear the differences.

The last time I dared to suggest that the CD192 and the CD36 sounded almost the same I had just about every other forum member jump down my throat and accused me of being cloth-eared and deaf. So sometimes it’s easier to just play along. When we compared the two players at my local dealer’s shop we had to move to a top shelf Electrocompaniet pre / power combo into a pair of B&W 800D’s before you could reliably tell the difference between the two players, a system that is way above the C31 / P1 combo. As a counter to that, I have always worked on the philosophy of spending the cash on the source component first then amp and speakers last and that is why I suggested looking at the CD36.

You have to remember that the FMJ product range is pitched at the well healed audio punter who wants his product to look good as well as sound good. So the FMJ casing is there to package the unit as a high end aspirational product. I’m not saying it is a rip off or wrong, I’m just putting it into perspective. The Diva range gets a high quality plastic front Facia, the FMJ range gets and aluminium front Facia.

Having said all this, what I would really like to see Arcam do is to create a Diva Pre-amp and a Diva Mono-bock power amplifier which uses the C31 and P1 internals in the Diva packaging. Say a C91 / P100 Diva pre-amp / power amp (and no, splitting an A80 or an A90 integrated by its pre-out doesn’t count as a proper pre-amp).

I use the diva range of products because I’m only on an a realistic salary and I don’t feel the FMJ offers value for money, Like I said the FMJ range is an aspirational product. So at the end of the day when you audition your C31 have a close listen to a CD192 vs. CD36 during the demonstration. If you can’t hear a difference then you get to spend a bit more money on CDs. Most importantly - as I said in the previous post, it’s good to see people actually buying HiFi for music and not home theatre surround sound stuff.

Happy Listening.

LPSPinner

[dead of night]

I always appreciate your input, LPSpinner. However, have you read the reviews on such "lowly" equipment as the A85? The reviewers are astonished at the high quality sound and say it is one of the best at any price.
Arcam is a manufacurer that makes superb sounding components at the middle price range. Where else can I get such great sound at a great price from a top level unit in the DIVA category: amp, preamp, and CD192?

[mpmct]

Originally Posted by dead of night

I always appreciate your input, LPSpinner. However, have you read the reviews on such "lowly" equipment as the A85? The reviewers are astonished at the high quality sound and say it is one of the best at any price.
Arcam is a manufacurer that makes superb sounding components at the middle price range. Where else can I get such great sound at a great price from a top level unit in the DIVA category: amp, preamp, and CD192?

Just my experience, your mileage may vary ...

My upgrade from MA Bronze B1s to GS 10s : massive, jaw-dropping improvement!
( as good as I found the B1s ). Maybe sorta like going from a Toyota to a BMW.
Toyota: good. BMW, another thing altogether.

NAD least expensive gear to Arcam 192/A70 -- very very significant improvement,
but not jaw-dropping. Just very very satisfying, and obvious every second.

192/A70 to CD36/31/P1s, very very significant improvement again,
but not jaw-dropping. But a richness and clarity that I suspect you
just can't buy, until you do.

Auditioning scores of interconnects and speaker cable, from the crazy expensive,
to 14 gauge solid copper standard US electrical wire .... yawn.
Sorry, the differences were ... trivial, no big deal.
We use the solid copper house-wiring cable here for speaker cable,
$12 US for 6' runs, and middle of the road brand-name interconnects.
It sounds best connecting all this wallet-thinning gear. So be it.
The $1000 interconnects made a teeny weeny itsy bitsy bit of difference
*maybe*, but blind tests didn't support that contention.
( I don't wanna fight with anyone about this stuff, this is
just my experience. I spent hours flipping cable, and my significant
other's fingers were raw, assisting in blind tests. )

Finally, the top-of-the-line Arcam gear, with MA Golds, and moderate to
inexpensive cable, and I'm thrilled every time I fire up the goods.

I still think I should have kept the 192/A70 for a second set
of gear. It sounded very good, especially for the buck.
Quite a 'sweet spot' between quality and budget, IMHO.

[LPspinner]

Originally Posted by dead of night

I always appreciate your input, LPSpinner. However, have you read the reviews on such "lowly" equipment as the A85? The reviewers are astonished at the high quality sound and say it is one of the best at any price.
Arcam is a manufacurer that makes superb sounding components at the middle price range. Where else can I get such great sound at a great price from a top level unit in the DIVA category: amp, preamp, and CD192?

Yes I am yet to see a bad review on the A85 integrated and if this is what you already have, it does make a fine match for your CD192. You were comparing the internals of various Arcam CD players earlier. Have you compared the gizzards of an A85 to that of an A90 or even the A32 for that matter? Yes they do all look very similar don’t they? The lab reports from various HiFi magazines also seem to report similar power outputs and distortion figures all three amplifiers. I am friendly with the local Arcam dealer’s technician and we had an A32 and an A90 opened up side by side on the bench. The only differences we could see were the case.

If you are still looking at a cost effective upgrade rather than doing the pre / power thing I know lots of users on this forum are doing the bi-amping thing so you might want to add a P90 and bi-amp your speakers. That is of course if you speakers have a split crossover that will allow bi-amping.

[ChrisM]

Yet another informative and balanced thread on the Arcam Forum. Picking up on LPSpinner's comment on bi-amping I would thoroughly recommend giving it a try. Get a dealer to set up the A85 with a P90 and take along your speakers. I expect you will be impressed with the difference, more control, clarity and spaciousness to the sound is what I found. From what has been said so far I would not be thinking about spending money on the FMJ kit unless I was absolutely convinced that any 'improvement' was worth the extra outlay. The difference in price buys an awful lot of music!!!

Keep the 2-channel faith.