If BD Wins will we all suffer draconian DRM enforcement?

[Norman]

Technologically speaking, I’m not bothered who wins the format war because I think both technologies will deliver ideantical HD Video performance, but I am concerned about DRM technology and perhaps someone reading this can clear up this point for me.

Bill Gates has said current DRM technology doesn’t offer a good solution for the new age because people now want to move their legitimately purchased software from one device to another (i.e. move a film from an optical disk to a media centre PC or music to an iPOD) which is why Microsoft, Intel and HP have backed HDDVD.

As I understand it, HDDVD is the only format to make managed copy a mandatory part of its specification whereas BD leaves it as an option.
Does this mean that if BD wins the format war we may all suffer from having a far less flexible medium than desired because I can’t believe Sony would allow managed copy for movies?

I may be completely wrong here so any comments would be welcome.

[Dave2]

Originally Posted by Norman

Technologically speaking, I’m not bothered who wins the format war because I think both technologies will deliver ideantical HD Video performance, but I am concerned about DRM technology and perhaps someone reading this can clear up this point for me.

Bill Gates has said current DRM technology doesn’t offer a good solution for the new age because people now want to move their legitimately purchased software from one device to another (i.e. move a film from an optical disk to a media centre PC or music to an iPOD) which is why Microsoft, Intel and HP have backed HDDVD.

As I understand it, HDDVD is the only format to make managed copy a mandatory part of its specification whereas BD leaves it as an option.
Does this mean that if BD wins the format war we may all suffer from having a far less flexible medium than desired because I can’t believe Sony would allow managed copy for movies?

I may be completely wrong here so any comments would be welcome.

God i hope there is no DRM its a nightmare when the drm folder becomes corrupt and you have to go fix it.

[Rasczak]

You can relax somewhat - HD DVD and BluRay have very similar levels of protection - both now have mandatory managed copy as part of their spec. Both have the same protection system (AACS). BluRay has a two other protection mechanisms (BD+ and BD Mark) but both of these are unlikely to effect you the consumer in legitimate uses other than potentially making regional coding unhackable on BluRay.

However the proof of the pudding is going to be how managed copy is implemented. Managed copy is not guarenteed to be free. There is talk of charges being applied for all uses - well if I've paid £15 for a high def disc and I just want a low res copy on my iPod that I will then delete after watching once then I will be a little miffed if I have to pay (e.g.) £2.

[StooMonster]

The key component for DRM issue for me is region encoding.

Blu-ray has been better at this than was first thought, however, the possiblity of super-strong region encoding with multi-region players never happening looms over a Blu-ray "win" IMO.

No importing before UK release date, no buying movies no trips/holidays at cheap prices because of weak currencies, no buying films not released in your region, etc.

StooMonster

[The Nightfly]

It's ironic really that these multi-national companies will scour the globe looking for the cheapest prices on components and labour in order to build machines that prevent you doing the same.

Allan

[neilneil]

Originally Posted by StooMonster

The key component for DRM issue for me is region encoding.

Blu-ray has been better at this than was first thought, however, the possiblity of super-strong region encoding with multi-region players never happening looms over a Blu-ray "win" IMO.

No importing before UK release date, no buying movies no trips/holidays at cheap prices because of weak currencies, no buying films not released in your region, etc.

StooMonster

Is this one of the reasons perhaps that they want to break the US market first? Because the US has the least impact from region codeing ie they get 99% of new releases first so they don't care about strong region codeing. You can then get the snow ball rolling in the US first and hopfully Europe will follow regardless of how much we don't like region coding.
Is it also true that Japan has been brought into the same region as the US?

-Neil

[StooMonster]

Originally Posted by Neil Sumner

Is this one of the reasons perhaps that they want to break the US market first? Because the US has the least impact from region codeing ie they get 99% of new releases first so they don't care about strong region codeing. You can then get the snow ball rolling in the US first and hopfully Europe will follow regardless of how much we don't like region coding.
Is it also true that Japan has been brought into the same region as the US?

Yes it is true that Japan is now in same region as USA, so Americans can buy anime with no lock-out issues.

There's certainly a strong argument in what you are suggesting. Of course the real reason for region encoding is to keep prices artificially high in certain markets, especially Europe, and lock customers out of chance of sourcing more cheaply in the world.

StooMonster

[Ian_S]

I'd be far MORE worried about the DRM facilities Microsoft has built into Vista. If you thought Windows Media player could get fussy, you ain't seen nothing yet.

As for managed copy, put me in the camp where if I'm expected to pay for lower res copies you can count me out.

Regardless of optical format, DRM is going to become far more intrusive. It's up to us as consumers to vote with our wallets on this one.

[DocDVD]

Originally Posted by StooMonster

The key component for DRM issue for me is region encoding.

Blu-ray has been better at this than was first thought, however, the possiblity of super-strong region encoding with multi-region players never happening looms over a Blu-ray "win" IMO.

No importing before UK release date, no buying movies no trips/holidays at cheap prices because of weak currencies, no buying films not released in your region, etc.

StooMonster

And thats exactly why I will not buy into BluRay. These studios haven't learned anything about what their customers want, IMO.

[gandley]

Its a shame then that HD-DVD may well go region encoded. I hope they dont, but it definatly looks like its on the table at some point.

[DocDVD]

Originally Posted by gandley

Its a shame then that HD-DVD may well go region encoded. I hope they dont, but it definatly looks like its on the table at some point.

Yeah, I could understand it from a business perspective (if e.g. Fox would made it a prerequisite to join HD-DVD) - it would be a step backwards nonetheless.

Region coding is only here to screw the consumer...

[Rasczak]

Originally Posted by DocDVD

Yeah, I could understand it from a business perspective (if e.g. Fox would made it a prerequisite to join HD-DVD) - it would be a step backwards nonetheless.

At least if we get it at this stage it will hopefully be crackable - the BD coding seems to be fairly well entrenched and attempts ot crack it have so far failed. I don't see how Regional Coding can be integrated so effectively into HD DVD when the players are already out/far along the design process.

Originally Posted by gandley

Its a shame then that HD-DVD may well go region encoded. I hope they dont, but it definatly looks like its on the table at some point.

HD DVD is pretty far from "going region encoded." There are proposals being studied but none is ratified yet and even if they are, they do not apply to existing software and hardware.

One has to remember that DVD Forum is an open organization, allowing people to propose many things, and those proposals are public. But such data does not lead to firm conclusions of something happening.

Amir
Microsoft

[av-phile]

Originally Posted by amirm

HD DVD is pretty far from "going region encoded." There are proposals being studied but none is ratified yet and even if they are, they do not apply to existing software and hardware.

One has to remember that DVD Forum is an open organization, allowing people to propose many things, and those proposals are public. But such data does not lead to firm conclusions of something happening.

Amir
Microsoft

Glad to hear about that, straight from the "horse's mouth" so to speak. I hope the phrase "pretty far from" is far enough until the next genertion format comes along.

[Roam]

Ratifying no region encoding once and for all on both formats would put consumers minds at rest would it not?.

Making the HD players region free for SD would help too either from the off or with remote hacks considering studios apparently have a relaxed attitude towards region coding these days. I can hear the cheers already.