Waiting for HDMI 1.3? No need...

[Jase]

As has been mentioned a few times, you don't need HDMI 1.3 to be able to hear the new HD Audio Formats. An Amp/Receiver/Processor with HDMI 1.1 audio support is sufficient. Even if you had an HDMI 1.3 Amp/Receiver/Processor the decoding may well still be done by the HD Player. Post 9 in this thread at AVS explains why.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...48#post9107848

Update: 20-8-07. Another excellent article about HDMI 1.3 here:-

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh..._Necessary/853

[Nic Rhodes]

Jase I think this needs to be put a little more context into this.

HD DVD players are designed to decode in the player. They are loaded with audio codecs and output multichannel PCM over HDMI 1.1 and higher. Therefore HDMI 1.1 is all that is needed for HD DVD. The Denon equipped amps will be fine now for this.

BD is a bit different in that decoding 'might' happen in the player. If it does then HDMI 1.1 s all that is needed again. However unlike HD DVD which is desgned to decode in the player, BD is not. It may well just send the audio codec out via HDMI 1.3, especially if the player is not well equiped with audio codecs, which is the current state of many of the BD players. Panasonic are promising to add more internal audio codecs however in a future firmware upgrade. Future BD players, with HDMI 1.3 (no standalone players have this yet) may well choose to have very limited built in audio codecs (to save money) as most audio codecs are optional as opposed to mandatory in HD DVD player. HDMI 1.3 may well essential for good BD but not for HD DVD.

[The WB]

read in a few other forums and articles they linked, many companies are having serious doubts about blu-ray.Personally from what I've seen there is companies out there that are staying 100% behind the format.

[Jase]

Thanks for that Nic.

The amount of confusion around HDMI 1.3 and the respective players is incredible. Interesting that HDMI 1.3 may be essential for BD. I'm sure the HD-DVD camp are clapping their hands together in delight that their kit can be used to the full extent with HDMI 1.1 and the prospect that BD stuff won't...

To me, decoding in the player makes perfect sense and you then leave the Amp/Receiver/Processor performing any bass management and post processing duties such as EQ, PLIIx, THX etc....

Originally Posted by Nic Rhodes

Jase I think this needs to be put a little more context into this.

HD DVD players are designed to decode in the player. They are loaded with audio codecs and output multichannel PCM over HDMI 1.1 and higher. Therefore HDMI 1.1 is all that is needed for HD DVD. The Denon equipped amps will be fine now for this.

BD is a bit different in that decoding 'might' happen in the player. If it does then HDMI 1.1 s all that is needed again. However unlike HD DVD which is desgned to decode in the player, BD is not. It may well just send the audio codec out via HDMI 1.3, especially if the player is not well equiped with audio codecs, which is the current state of many of the BD players. Panasonic are promising to add more internal audio codecs however in a future firmware upgrade. Future BD players, with HDMI 1.3 (no standalone players have this yet) may well choose to have very limited built in audio codecs (to save money) as most audio codecs are optional as opposed to mandatory in HD DVD player. HDMI 1.3 may well essential for good BD but not for HD DVD.

Blu Ray is on self destruct if that is the case. What advantages does it have over HD DVD, surely there must be something? At the moment it costs twice as much, MPEG2 titles are lacking in PQ, the current crop doesn't support next gen audio codecs, and they are lousy with standard def DVDs.

[Jase]

Thought this was interesting in a bizarre way:-

http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/..._bluray_l.html

Read Number 4.

No support for CD - incredible. As far as I know none of the next gen players support SACD - is that correct? I don't think anyone should write off good old DVD just yet.

[Jase]

Yep, as far as I know there's no support for SACD (or DVD Audio).

[Nic Rhodes]

I am not sure this is a BD vs HD DVD thing, or a HDMI 1.1 vs 1.3 thing but just the different way the two formats go about things. People should be aware of the difference. No one solution is right, there are pros and cons to both. HDMI 1.3 players like the new Toshiba will sell well to many who think 1.3 is better than 1.1 even if there 'may be' no difference in the final picture. It is no different from the 1080i vs 1080p thing. Both formats contain exactly the same info as the disc is progressive!! These are unique marketting points, whether they are of any benefit is debateble. Many BD 'sites' currently advertise BD as 1080p and HD DVD as 1080i. In fact both are 1080p on the disc and both formats have stand alone players on the market now that output 1080p from the player as well!!

Personally I prefer the audio codecs to be in the players for these new HD formats (HD DVD and BD). Both formats are capable of this. If this route is adopted then HDMI 1.1 is all that is needed for multi channel audio transfer to a receiver if the players have the audio decoding built in. This is different from what I prefer with DD / DTS where I prefer the receiver / processor to do the coding. Out of interest DD+ and TrueHD are also different between the two formats!! It means that if HDMI 1.3 is used to output raw codecs in either format (bare in mind what I have said about this previously) then there needs to be two variants of DD+ and TrueHD in the receiver / processor and an ability to identify both Now I bet that works well . If Panasonic add their additional audio codec support (DTS MA and TrueHD) to their current player, then this looks to be the ideal player for me, forgetting that no BD Live capable players have yet been lauched and will not be for another 7 months min. The PS3 might be upgradable however but most of the rest can't.

[Nic Rhodes]

Some BD players do support CD, some DVD A and others SACD. I think these are 'additional' features to the BR spec and they might not be part of the 'core' BD spec. HD DVD I think does support DVD and CD as part of the spec.

[Jase]

Originally Posted by Nic Rhodes

Out of interest DD+ and TrueHD are also different between the two formats!! It means that if HDMI 1.3 is used to output raw codecs in either format (bare in mind what I have said about this previously) then there needs to be twoo variants of DD+ and TrueHD in the receiver / processor and an ability to identify both

Even more reason to leave the decoding up to the players! As I mentioned before, it just makes more sense.

[Jase]

Originally Posted by Nic Rhodes

Some BD players do support CD, some DVD A and others SACD. I think these are 'additional' features to the BR spec and they might not be part of the 'core' BD spec.

Ah, didn't realise that.

[Cheekster]

AVR seem to think HDMI 1.3 is going to be the best thing since sliced bread:

http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/artic...tr=highlights1

Cheekster.

[Jase]

The less said about that the better.

It will be intereseting to see where this 1.3 issue leads. Will the new Denons being released contain separate DTS HD, DD+ And Dolby True HD decoders for both Blu Ray and HD DVD (as Nic says is necessary)? Is it even clear that the studios will allow bitstream output from the players for these codecs? All I see is customer confusion and compatibility mayhem on a grander scale than came with all the different recordable DVD formats. Deep colour may be fine, but which displays are going to be able to take advantage? Seems like the industry is jumpoing ahead of itself more and more.