Baise-Moi - queery/review

[PoochJD]

HI,

This afternoon, I went to my local arthouse cinema, and saw the very controversial French drama "Baise-Moi".

To cut a long story short, I found this film to be a searing indictment into the way sex and violence affect men and women, and the way in which sex and violence is portrayed as entertainment.

This film, in my opinion, is brilliant! It's brutal, shocking, distasteful and completely repugnant! There isn't much of a plot, and it is NOT in any way erotic! The sex, is shown in its most animalistic way possible, and is extremely nihilistic, to say the least, not to mention bordering on hardcore pornography. The violence is less repellant, but still shocking. Entertainment this is most definitely NOT!

My query though, is this: I have read that a US Region 1 DVD release came out, at the end of last year - 2001. The DVD is supposed to be from a minor company called "Remstar", and is supposedly uncut, unrated, and in widescreen with English subtitles.

However, I've also seen another site say that it is in 4:3 pan and scan, rated "R", and has only Danish subtitles.

Can anyone tell me what the DVD really is, please? The film was made in widescreen, with a ratio somewhere between 1.66:1 and 1.85:1. I also need English subtitles, and the film must be completely and utterly uncensored, including the missing 10 seconds of material excised by the BBFC.

I know that there was a FRench DVD release, which was in 4:3 and uncut, but did not have ANY subtitles. However, as I don't speak French, or Danish for that matter, I do need English subtitles. And, the film should be seen, the way it was screened in cinemas, not in a direct-to-video format, which will ruin what little cinematography set-up there is!

If you can help me out, then it would be much appreciated.

Pooch

Originally posted by PoochJD
HI,

This afternoon, I went to my local arthouse cinema, and saw the very controversial French drama "Baise-Moi".

To cut a long story short, I found this film to be a searing indictment into the way sex and violence affect men and women, and the way in which sex and violence is portrayed as entertainment.

This film, in my opinion, is brilliant! It's brutal, shocking, distasteful and completely repugnant! There isn't much of a plot, and it is NOT in any way erotic! The sex, is shown in its most animalistic way possible, and is extremely nihilistic, to say the least, not to mention bordering on hardcore pornography. The violence is less repellant, but still shocking. Entertainment this is most definitely NOT!

Pooch

We live a pretty sick world, you say this is not entertainment but yet you watched it and outwardly supported such a film by going to see it.

Maybe if you'd ever suffered real sexual violence you wouldn't of found the film brilliant, maybe all the violence was portrayed against the woman as it normally is and so warms to your male ego.

Originally posted by AccursedDelphi


We live a pretty sick world, you say this is not entertainment but yet you watched it and outwardly supported such a film by going to see it.

Maybe if you'd ever suffered real sexual violence you wouldn't of found the film brilliant, maybe all the violence was portrayed against the woman as it normally is and so warms to your male ego.

The above quote is from the only female member of this forum who's constantly changing avatar comprises photographs of herself in her underwear.

Who's ego is she pandering to.

[captaineyecatch]

Dvdreview has a review of the disc here =
http://dvdreview.com/quickpeek/collect/614.shtml
The disc has got eng subs but picture is pretty poor.
Futureent.com have got the disc for £13.99

[PoochJD]

AccursedDelphi.

You said: "We live a pretty sick world, you say this is not entertainment but yet you watched it and outwardly supported such a film by going to see it."

1) The film isn't meant to entertain! If you've read about the film, or seen it, and had an ounce of intelligence, you may know this! The film is a semi-autobiographical documentary/drama made by two women, one an ex-porn actress, and the other a famous French authoress.

The film deals with how women cope with sexual abuse, and its after-effects. The film is not your standard rape/revenge movie, that panders to the male ego, as the two female leads are shown as very powerful women, in control of what they do AT ALL times. The two women, kill men AND women, without any discrimination of any kind. Again, if you'd seen or read anything on this film, you may know this! :mad:

You then said: "Maybe if you'd ever suffered real sexual violence you wouldn't of found the film brilliant, maybe all the violence was portrayed against the woman as it normally is and so warms to your male ego."

2) You're right about the sexual violence thing. If I was ever a victim of male rape, or child abuse, then I may think differently. However, I am neither of those, so it would be unjust and unfair for me to presume that this film WOULD offend all women.

I don't condone rape or violence against women. I don't condone rape or violence against men, either! You have presumed to know me, and presumed very, very inaccurately! Next time, you may be wiser, to not pre-judge people so quickly.

The screening I attended yesterday, also held a discussion panel afterwards. The audience was 60% male, 40% female. The panel comprised of four women, one man, including a lady who works for the company distributing the film in the UK.

I only asked a simple question. I'm sorry if you have been raped or sexually abused, and you found my positive review of the film to be offensive or degrading to women. The fact that the film is in French, and is not easy viewing will hopefully deter some people from seeing it. It does verge on the border of hardcore pornography, which should give you an idea of how extreme this film actually is. However, don't presume that this is just another sex and violence film, that is out to degrade women. Most of the women in the audience, actually felt that it showed women in a positive position, even if the characters were not positive role models for audiences to follow.

There are far worse films that exist, that do more damage to violence against women, than "Baise-Moi" does. Just chekc out almost any western film; almost any James Bond or Arnold Schwarzenegger film, where the women are purely trophies for the hero to attain, or numerous other Hollywood action/adventure/thriller films.

Pooch

[encaser]

I seem to recall Nige and Steff on Vidz reviewed this which led me to it. I saw it last year and also remember it being more a Euro-tripper cum art house excuse for, often, the less discriminating younger/idiot to gape a view. It is both HC pornographic in its erect members etc. and violent with sexual crimes, gun blasts and the like, but a bit thin in strength or use of topic. As is often the case in many films which aim for the victim becoming heroine, they instead spiral into portraying the victim as the classic victim turns perpertrator to the nth degree; in which the audience feels less and less for them.
I did like the low fi muddied way it was shot and end the though; in it's panning out to same s*** another day ongoing reality on the characters face, instead of an obvious shoot out/cop out finale.

As for the dvd Poochie boy, can't help you there - that's entertainment!!!!

[rob_w]

pooch

http://www.moviesunlimited.com

they are a fantastic company thoough very pricey on p&p - stock this film definitely, not sure about ratios etc

definitely french with english subs..

also stock `dubious` anime etc..:-)

ROB

PoochJD you can justify anything if you want, if you had an ounce of intelligence you wouldn't bother watching such crap.

The movie’s sole purpose for existence is to show these women performing cruel and immoral acts. Those who have read social or political messages into the film are fooling themselves (and trying to placate their consciences for having watched it) and the critics who have compared it to ’Thelma & Louise’ did so purely due to lack of imagination. Yes, the film does present sex scenes, which are more realistic than those shown in American films, but that is no reason to publicize this pitiful film. The acting is terrible, the story hard to follow, and the ’special effects’ would make H.G. Lewis cringe. Those expecting to find ’Baise Moi’ challenging, thrilling, or titillating are in for a severe disappointment. The movie is never sexy, exciting, or engaging. Imagine the worst direct-to-video movie that you’ve ever seen, now double that, and you’ve got ’Baise Moi’.

[AsillyCow]

You can justify anything if you want by quoting an unnamed source as your argument.

Here is another critical appraisal to provide balance

What's most bold about the film is that in the 40 years since the French New Wave began, violence in films has reached new levels and "Baise Moi" brings depictions of sex up to speed with a frank, objective lens — not always pretty, but awfully real. Pleasantly, in one break from the tradition of the New Wave vanguard of Godard and Rivette, filmmakers Virginie Despentes and Ceralie Trinh Thi seem to understand the point of a cutting-room floor — "Baise Moi" is an intense — and highly manageable — 77 minutes.

Like Manu and Nadine's tendency to have sex or kill someone to escape from the realities they would rather not face, "Baise Moi" is itself an escape. There's not a whole lot to think about plotwise; the power is in experiencing this film as an event in time and perhaps film history. But as Nadine says, after having a lot of sex, "You don¹t think as much, and you sleep better."

[rob_w]

accursed delphi -

have you seen this film?


rob

[Dubbing Mixer]

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

Or in other words, we read into movies what we wish.

Our prejudices colour everything we see, read and hear. What tittillates one, disgusts another and is a moral lesson for a third.

I'll reserve judgement until I see it. IF I do.

Other films, over the years, have provoked similar reactions. Check out 'Streetwalker' if you will. Less extreme, I'm sure, but similarly ambivalent. Life is not black and white, but endless shades of grey.

[Rambo John J]

Baise Moi's available in both R and unrated versions in the US, both with subtitles, but neither widescreen (from what I've read).

[Xusia Of Delos]

Accursed Delphi, your avatar is a photo of a womans upper body (yours presumably?) with the statement "born to bounce" under it.

*** is that all about? Childish joke, or subtle criticism of the way society views women. Please do explain, I'm sure I'm not the only one intrigued.

With regard to "Base Moi", Pooch doesn't have to defend his opinions, particularly against such unwarranted hostility. He was merely stating a personal opinion. Why not try and respect that?

[PoochJD]

Hi Again,

Thanks to those of you who have bothered to respond to my question - r.e. the availablity of this film on DVD. To "Accursed Delphi", I really don't understand you.

On the one hand, you appear to be attacking me personally, for liking a controversial film, and on the other hand, you are taking quotes off of other websites - namely the Internet Movie Database, et al - and trying to justify that my liking this film is somehow wrong, immoral, and deeply sick.

As I've said before, I apologise if the fact that I liked this film, is offensive and/or upsetting to you. However, I do have to ask, just as others have, a) if you've actually seen this film at all, and b) the purpose of your photographic avatar?

If you haven't seen this film, which I genuinely suspect you haven't, then it is inappropriate for you to slate me on a film that you don't actually know about, on a first-hand basis, yourself. And your avatar, makes you appear to be a hypocrit at best, and an idiot to boot. The reason being, you are attacking me for enjoying a film which deals with sex and violence, yet you find offensive. And yet, your avatar is openly implying that you are "desperately wanting to be ogled at by men, as nothing more than a sex object".

Anyway, I've said enough on this. AccursedDelphi - think of me what you like, but you don't know me, or the way I think! Don't be so quick to judge others, unless you wish to be judged also!

Pooch

[Ian J]

Originally posted by PoochJD
your avatar is openly implying that you are "desperately wanting to be ogled at by men, as nothing more than a sex object".

Surely not :grin: :grin:

[NickBull]

The unrated version is not W/S, and PQ is poor. This adds to the film I believe. But people could find it annoying.

The film was made to provoke reaction, the director was a femal and she knew what she wanted to acheive and acheived it.

It is a slice of the seddier side of life, it is niot glorified and films like this definately have a place.

[Rambo John J]

The lead characters are played by genuine French porn actresses too.

[rob_w]

"The lead characters are played by genuine French porn actresses too."

must be good then ;-)