View Full Version : Aspect ratio of new (EP1,2,3) Starwars DVD's
Rob100
29-08-2006, 12:21 PM
This has probably been covered before, but I can't find where...
I keep reading that the "new" versions are "copies/transfers" of the laser discs (which I happen to own the last "pre-lucas-tinkering" NTSC versions of).
So am I right in thinking the DVD's are going to be 2.35:1 formatted for a 4:3 display? Or are they 2.35:1 anamorphic letterboxed 16:9?
Still trying to decide if I should get these. Like so many others I hate some of the things Lucas did in the 97 and 04 releases and prefer the originals, but the PQ of the laser discs is so soft/grainy and lacking defenition I can't bring myself to watch them on my PJ.
Thanks,
Rob.
Rob100
29-08-2006, 12:23 PM
I mean EP4,5,6... what a div!
Can a mod please edit the title so everyone doesn't think I'm stupid!
That's what you get for rushing a post when you should be working :eek:
Rob.
Indiana Jones
29-08-2006, 12:36 PM
They are 2:35.1 non-anamorphic widescreen which means black bars all round unless you zoom in but that would just make it look worse.
The Digitalbits ran a piece last week about Lucasfilm's intentions for the 30th anniversary of Star Wars next year and they seem to be sure from their connections that a boxset of all 6 films is on the way with a CGI Yoda in EP1 and various tweaks to EP1,2,3. They didn't rule out something happening to the original versions of 4,5,6 either. With the disks coming out next month only available for a short period, it seems like next year's release could include proper versions of the originals.
Rob100
29-08-2006, 4:41 PM
They are 2:35.1 non-anamorphic widescreen which means black bars all round unless you zoom in but that would just make it look worse.
Right, so 2.35:1 formatted for 4:3 playback, the same as the laserdics. If that's the case I don't think GL will be getting my money this time.
Rob.
Indiana Jones
29-08-2006, 5:12 PM
That is the case and is the reason why many on here decided not to buy them.
Mine should turn up in the next few days, I'll let you know if they look better than the laserdiscs on a PJ.
Jaymzee
30-08-2006, 12:10 PM
Non anamorphic eh george? not as daft as those shirts you wear are you??
I can see it now, for the 30th aniversary.. George in flannel shirt..
"<s******>well, you know, we released Episodes 4-6 in thier original state on dvd in 2006, and afterwards (pffffft) we though.. WE could really tidy them up...." (Rick McCallum can be heard laughing off screen rubbing his hands)
.... I'm waiting till the 30th aniversary to see what we get, my existing Laserdisc dvd's will do me till then...Yar!
CrazyHorse
30-08-2006, 1:13 PM
Mine should turn up in the next few days, I'll let you know if they look better than the laserdiscs on a PJ.
Have you ordered the R1 NTSC or R2 PAL versions?
They are 2:35.1 non-anamorphic widescreen which means black bars all round unless you zoom in but that would just make it look worse.
dvd compare says they're anamorphic:confused:
why are they not anamorphic with a 2004 release, a major release at that?:confused:
CrazyHorse
30-08-2006, 2:01 PM
dvd compare says they're anamorphic:confused:
why are they not anamorphic with a 2004 release, a major release at that?:confused:
They only refer to the previous release of the SE Trilogy box set. The new individual releases will contain the same anamorphic transfers of the SE's contained in the box set plus non-anamorphic versions of the original, unaltered versions of the films on the second disc.
Have you ordered the R1 NTSC or R2 PAL versions?
R1 NTSC
Scott Wallace
30-08-2006, 3:33 PM
Right, so 2.35:1 formatted for 4:3 playback, the same as the laserdics. If that's the case I don't think GL will be getting my money this time.
Rob.
I'm not a transfer expert or an accountant at a telecine facility, but does it cost more money to do an anamorphic transfer compared to a letterboxed 4:3 transfer? This decision is despicable. However, before everyone calls George uber greedy, consider that LOTR is coming out with yet another edition of all three movies. So that's one theatrical version first, then the extended editions months later, now another edition with only the promise of new bonus material. Peter Jackson is making George Lucas look like a philanthropist.
I'm not a transfer expert or an accountant at a telecine facility, but does it cost more money to do an anamorphic transfer compared to a letterboxed 4:3 transfer? This decision is despicable. However, before everyone calls George uber greedy, consider that LOTR is coming out with yet another edition of all three movies. So that's one theatrical version first, then the extended editions months later, now another edition with only the promise of new bonus material. Peter Jackson is making George Lucas look like a philanthropist.
I don't think it's Peter Jacksons decision to release another LOTR DVD.
Not having SW cleaned up and anamorphic is rubbish but like you said we aren't getting lots of multiple releases of SW like we are others.
dvdactive have some clips, the first two look ok, the comparison looks rubbish.
I'm not a transfer expert or an accountant at a telecine facility, but does it cost more money to do an anamorphic transfer compared to a letterboxed 4:3 transfer?
I think what Lucas has done is even worse than that. He didn't make a new transfer (either anamorphic or non-anamorphic) at all, just resused the transfer they had made for the LD.
CrazyHorse
30-08-2006, 5:45 PM
I think what Lucas has done is even worse than that. He didn't make a new transfer (either anamorphic or non-anamorphic) at all, just resused the transfer they had made for the LD.
And from what I've read the LD transfers are heavily filtered using Digital Noise Reduction making the pic soft and lacking in detail.
Received my copies of the original StarWars DVDs today. Region 1 NTSC.
I can confirm that the original theatrical versions are NOT anamorphically enhanced.
Only looked through Episode IV so far, but here are my findings.
I own the original versions on Laserdisc in the form of the Definitive Collection boxset and it does appear they've been taken from the same print. I would say that the DVD versions look ever so slightly sharper.
Due to the non-anamorphic issue when viewing scenes with subtitles (han solo and greedo at mos-eisley) part of the text is cut off, unless of you course your TV lets you move the image up the screen so you can see the second line of text.
I also noticed some jaggies on some scenes, don't know if this due to any interlacing issues or whether it's unique to the NTSC versions. I don't have the PAL versions to compare.
As regards to sound it's just a vanilla dolby 2.0 surround mix, it does the job and is at least faithful to how it must have sounded back in the 70s.
I would assume it's the same audio track as the Laserdiscs as the 5.1 mix didn't come along until the first release of the digitally remastered versions on Laserdisc. I also own these on LD but haven't compared them to the DVDs yet. My real interest in these DVDs was the theatrical cut as I don't subscribe to George Lucas' tampering. (It's been nice to see Han shoot first again.)
Anyway, no doubt these DVDs will be the subject of debate and George Lucas bashing for sometime, until the inevitable release on HD-DVD or BluRay.
Does IV have "Episode IV" at the start of the scroll ?
Does IV have "Episode IV" at the start of the scroll ?
Nope, there's no New Hope either.
You just get StarWars, then the scrolling text.
Just checked out the Remastered version, dramatically improved sound and picture over the theatrical version.
Indiana Jones
31-08-2006, 7:27 PM
Just checked out the Remastered version, dramatically improved sound and picture over the theatrical version.
Not really surprising as they are the same discs that were released 2 years ago which look great, apart from the colour mistakes.
Rob100
31-08-2006, 7:49 PM
I would say that the DVD versions look ever so slightly sharper.
Oh dear that's very disappointing... The lasers look poor on my 78" wide screen even after some processing (DScaler noise filter and sharpen) by the HTPC via a Sweetspot, so unless there was a big difference in PQ I definately won't be investing in these discs.
quarry2006
31-08-2006, 8:02 PM
Cheers, Petey. You've allayed any doubts I might have had about my decision not to buy them. Undoubtedly, more could have been done regarding these original films but knowing how much Lucas didn't want them released anyway, it sounds like they've done the very 'leastest' proving (if proof were needed) Lucas's assertion that he didn't feel the originals fit to be carried into the 21st century.
Oh dear that's very disappointing... The lasers look poor on my 78" wide screen even after some processing (DScaler noise filter and sharpen) by the HTPC via a Sweetspot, so unless there was a big difference in PQ I definately won't be investing in these discs.
There is a difference, it's just not very big. If you've got the LD versions, I'ed save yourself some money. Maybe try a rental when the Region 2 versions are released, at least you could satisfy any curiosity you may have. (Assuming blockbuster get them for rental)
Cheers, Petey. You've allayed any doubts I might have had about my decision not to buy them. Undoubtedly, more could have been done regarding these original films but knowing how much Lucas didn't want them released anyway, it sounds like they've done the very 'leastest' proving (if proof were needed) Lucas's assertion that he didn't feel the originals fit to be carried into the 21st century.
If it weren't for the originals George Lucas wouldn't have anything to tamper with anyway. I've lost all respect for George Lucas over his digital tampering, as I'm sure many others have aswell. Not that it makes any difference to him as his oversized wallet swells with every DVD release. What gets me, is that I still buy them, I'm to blame. :(
Scott Wallace
01-09-2006, 1:53 AM
There is a difference, it's just not very big. If you've got the LD versions, I'ed save yourself some money. Maybe try a rental when the Region 2 versions are released, at least you could satisfy any curiosity you may have. (Assuming blockbuster get them for rental)
If it weren't for the originals George Lucas wouldn't have anything to tamper with anyway. I've lost all respect for George Lucas over his digital tampering, as I'm sure many others have aswell. Not that it makes any difference to him as his oversized wallet swells with every DVD release. What gets me, is that I still buy them, I'm to blame. :(
I agree completely that the tampering has been overall, bad, bad, bad. Why do we need in...
Episode IV:
-CG Ben homestead
-CG New creatures in Mos Eisley entrance
-CG character in cantina that is completely out of place with other models
-Nonsensical creatures wandering in front of camera as stormtroopers stop Luke's speeder
-Han & Greedo. Nuff said.
Episode V:
-Why in the world did they change--right after Vader beats Luke--Vader's line from "Bring my shuttle" to "Alert my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival"!?! It is lame, lame, lame!!!
-On the heels of that, we get a needless sequence of Vader's shuttle arriving, Vader debarking, and a cast-off shot obviously from VI complete with Moff Jerjerrod greeting him
Episode VI:
-Dance number in Jabba's palace. terrible.
-Hayden ghost. Why then isn't Ben young, or Yoda?
These are just off the top of my head. In each case, a bit of the magic is lost from the originals IMO.
Cheers...........Scott W.
CrazyHorse
01-09-2006, 6:11 AM
I agree completely that the tampering has been overall, bad, bad, bad. Why do we need in...
Episode IV:
-CG Ben homestead
-CG New creatures in Mos Eisley entrance
-CG character in cantina that is completely out of place with other models
-Nonsensical creatures wandering in front of camera as stormtroopers stop Luke's speeder
-Han & Greedo. Nuff said.
Episode V:
-Why in the world did they change--right after Vader beats Luke--Vader's line from "Bring my shuttle" to "Alert my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival"!?! It is lame, lame, lame!!!
-On the heels of that, we get a needless sequence of Vader's shuttle arriving, Vader debarking, and a cast-off shot obviously from VI complete with Moff Jerjerrod greeting him
Episode VI:
-Dance number in Jabba's palace. terrible.
-Hayden ghost. Why then isn't Ben young, or Yoda?
These are just off the top of my head. In each case, a bit of the magic is lost from the originals IMO.
Cheers...........Scott W.
I couldn't agree more, particularly the change of Vader's "Bring my shuttle" line in Empire! A superbly edited, paced and scored sequence is reduced to clunky unnecessary exposition! George, step away from your Avid and digital toys and get ye back to film school me-lad!!!
aprout
01-09-2006, 10:54 AM
I agree completely that the tampering has been overall, bad, bad, bad. Why do we need in...
Episode VI:
-Hayden ghost. Why then isn't Ben young, or Yoda?
Cheers...........Scott W.
I think the official word from Lucas was that young Hayden's there because he's how he looked before he turned to the dark side.
I wouldn't have such a problem with his inclusion in that shot if he didn't look so damned evil with that grin on his slappable face.
:)
StarWars.com (http://www.starwars.com/episode-iv/release/video/f20060825/index.html) have a good comparison of the 1977 to 1997/2004 versions highlighting all the changes made. 122 comparisons in total :eek: . There is a huge difference in quality between the 2 images compared. I wonder if this image quality difference is the same as the difference between the old and new versions on DVD??
inzaman
01-09-2006, 12:37 PM
The image problem is frustrating, i really want the original versions on DVD, although i dont mind the altered versions but its just a few of the changes that annoy me; especially the song at the end of ROTJ, Greedo shooting first, all the creatures at Mos Eisley etc. If rental companies are renting these out then i might give them a try to see if i can live with the pq first.
I think that now the SE's have been out some people hate it, love it or like only certain parts of it.
I Prefer the Death Star attack in IV but hate the stupid added cgi aliens through out and Han shooting first
I can't think of any changes in V that I don't like.
The song in Jabba's palace needs dropping altogether it adds to an already bloated first act.
I much prefer the new ROTJ ending (Ewok song etc), not bothered about Hayden at the end, although people new to the series seem to prefer it.
Knyght_byte
01-09-2006, 4:55 PM
i'm sure i asked this before but i might be going mad...heh
i have an 86in 16:9 ratio screen being fed from a Infocus 7205 projector....
how will it look assuming i just have the PJ set to native input (in other words it displays how the player sends it)
A, B, or C? or something else....lol
CrazyHorse
01-09-2006, 5:53 PM
'b'
inzaman
01-09-2006, 6:07 PM
If you change the player to 16:9 then it should look like A.
The Starwars.com comparison is a real eye opener imo.
Set it to 16:9 zoom and it will fill the screen at the correct aspect ratio.
gasman1
05-09-2006, 10:53 AM
Im surprised nobody has mentioned Han stepping on Jabbas tail, that bit irritates the hell out of me, a very shoddy workaround if you ask me.
unique
05-09-2006, 12:51 PM
I'm not a transfer expert or an accountant at a telecine facility, but does it cost more money to do an anamorphic transfer compared to a letterboxed 4:3 transfer? This decision is despicable. However, before everyone calls George uber greedy, consider that LOTR is coming out with yet another edition of all three movies. So that's one theatrical version first, then the extended editions months later, now another edition with only the promise of new bonus material. Peter Jackson is making George Lucas look like a philanthropist.
thats not the issue. it was because lucas didn't want to spend anymore money making a new transfer, which he would have spent money on to clean up and remove dust and hair specs and other print damage from 30 year old celluloid. apparently the process for doing this is pretty expensive. i won't go into the argument of the cost of that VS how much money he would/could/will make on the dvd/hddvd/bluray sales, but there you go
they have just taken a master that is relatively easy to port to dvd without spending much money on it. i suppose they could have done a basic telecine job anamorphicly and not clean it up, but it's arguable as to which would look better. they may have already done this and thats why they picked the non anamorphic master
Geoff_D
05-09-2006, 10:22 PM
It's a shame that new anamorphic transfers weren't created, but these aged laserdisc masters were derived from the best-quality elements at the time (1985 'archival' interpositives) and it's these same elements that would have to be used for new transfers of the old editions.
Perhaps the 'powers that be' had a look at the '85 IPs and were not happy with the quality, as unique said, and instead decided to go with what they already had, anamorphic be damned. Or LFL simply went for the cheapest option possible from the beginning, given that Lucas has a strong dislike of the original versions of the films.
I'd like to see properly restored anamorphic versions of the originals - if only for posterity and not out of some pathological fanboy allegiance. I'd rather watch the Special Editions, but that still doesn't mean that the originals should be wiped from history.
I agree Geoff. The special editions are fine for me. I didn't notice a lot of the subtle changes (like Han shooting first), but I would like to see the originals versions at their best possible quality (no beefed up 5.1, just as they were presented in the cinema).
PJTX100
06-09-2006, 1:59 PM
i'm sure i asked this before but i might be going mad...heh
i have an 86in 16:9 ratio screen being fed from a Infocus 7205 projector....
how will it look assuming i just have the PJ set to native input (in other words it displays how the player sends it)
A, B, or C? or something else....lol
a
beecee
06-09-2006, 2:39 PM
as its non anamorphic, the subtitles (when greedo is speeking to han) will be cropped off the bottom, unless you can move the image up the screen, at least on a 16:9 display..
but the subtitles should be in the image portion of the film as it would have been in the cinema.
Rob100
06-09-2006, 3:15 PM
a
Only if zoomed, otherwise B.
shortround
06-09-2006, 4:53 PM
A is a stretched version of B, not a zoomed version. So I believe PJTX100 is correct.
Rob100
06-09-2006, 7:04 PM
Okay looking closer at the pics...
Assuming your screen is 16:9, the DVD player is set to 16:9 and is able to switch your display from 4:3 to 16:9 (for example by voltage on pin 8). Then I would expect it to look like "B" (the display in 4:3 mode).
Your right that if the screen was left in 16:9 it would like like "A". It should never look like "A" as this seems to have an aspect ratio of about 3.5:1 :eek:
"B" is the only one which seems to have approx the right AR.
Depending on your equipment you might be able to zoom to full width, leaving borders top and bottom. However this will cause probs with subs as previously mentioned.
Bossk128
07-09-2006, 8:34 AM
This may be a silly question, but is there any rumour of 4-6 trilogy being released consisting of:
- THX remastered pic quality and remastered 5.1 DDEX sound
- anamorphic transfer
- original scenes
I mean, releasing the 'original' films for the fanboys (thats me btw!) but what can only be described as deliberately having inferior picture quality is a rubbish idea. In fact, I'd ideally like to have both original scenes and CG scenes (here I mean Jabba, Greedo shooting 1st, Hayden C. as Anakins ghost) available as seamless branching.
Oh, wait a minute- that's two releases on one disc. Best charge £30 for it.
Kieron
07-09-2006, 4:06 PM
Nope, there's no New Hope either.
You just get StarWars, then the scrolling text.
Just checked out the Remastered version, dramatically improved sound and picture over the theatrical version.
The only good thing about this release. I remember for years telling people that the Episode IV line was added after the cinema release from '77 - nobody believed me...