The best upgrade i`ve bought cost £16!

[Neal W]

Firstly a big hello to everyone and also a huge thanks to James for helping me out with my projector

My entry in to the world of crt PJ`s started with a Sony VPH1040-QM Super Bright, then a Nec 6pg and now a Marquee 9501lc. The 9501 has now got new green and blue tube, the red only doing minimal hours with no wear to be seen wasnt changed but has got a red c element now. Recently got a crystalio and philips 963 SDI`d player as a film source and use my x360 for HD games (yes, i know the x360 is a sin in the eyes of many but its fun! and i already know i should grow up). Really need to sort the HD film source out as i have seen HD on my PJ and its amazing, but im not quite there yet.

The only problem with my picture is that i felt it was lacking black detail. Had the PJ setup in day time with black out blinds that aren`t 100% effective but the feeling was that at night the picture would improve, (also my tubes aren`t past the majic 500 hrs so would need to have another cal` etc when truely settled in. However, after watching a particularily naff (dark) disk i became interested in trying to get more black detail so fiddled with some setting up to the point of G2`s, but in the end decided that the original settings are best (not surpirising as James set it up).

After chatting to james about the issue he suggested trying something out. So i purchased 6x1.5m of black fabric for £16 and some drawing pins. Then i fitted it to the ceiling last night covering up the white ceiling from the projector to the screen, the screen case (white) and also the side of a fire place near the screen which is also white. (the screen is already on a dark blue wall).
After letting the projector warm up for a bit, then sat down to have a look at what i thought wasn`t really going to make any difference. Instantly however i could see the difference, picture brighter(black level), appeared to be more colour and increased white output. After a while fiddled with my settings and have now run with 5 points less contrast. Brightness hasnt really changed but i had been pushing brightness before and now no need.

Now looking at my set up and how its changed, it was reflection from ceiling and the near by fire place that was killing my image. Now im running lower contrast which means less work by the PJ, for spending £16 pounds! awesome. Also can`t remember seeing white walls or ceiling in any of the cinema i`ve been too , funny that

Truth of the matter however is that it isnt really suitable for most people to run material on their ceiling the whole time, (my beloved has commented already). My way around this is to knock up a roller blind kit that will extend from the screen to hook fixings near the PJ, will update on how it goes.

I`m sure most people already know about this trick but I can't recommend this cheap tip highly enough even if its to try just for fun, if you're considering a dedicated room in the future or have one it has to be something to think about.

(did try to search on previous posts for this subject but couldn`t find anything easily, sorry if its a repeat)

[sbowler]

Its very common for a dedicated HT room to be painted in a dark color, and this is well know to improve black levels on front projection systems. Also a way of increasing perceived black levels is to add a 2inch black velvet boarder around your screen if it hasnt one already.

[Neal W]

the screen i have does have a border and is set on a blue wall, not great quality though. plan to have a dedicated room one day but that envolves a upgrade on the house, will get a suitable screen then and walls and ceiling will be as dark as i dare

[cosaw]

Hi Neal and welcome,

You raise a very valid point and an appropriate one given the recent discussion of budget CRT cinemas in another thread. The important point for people on a budget is to make your money count! Like you say £16 can make a big difference.

I'd really love to paint my whole room black as I know it would really improve my pic. Unfortunately a no go area. I've got a large roll of black felt I bought ages ago - maybe I'll finally put it to the use it was intended for.

My idea for best effect (which I've discussed before) and to make the felt go as far as possible is to make "blinkers". I'd get some light weight pannels and cover them with the black felt and then crop the image with the panels coming out at and appropriate angle and distance of around a meter from the screen. These panels could be hung from the ceiling and removed when not in use.

In my house we rarely have more than 3 viewers and so the panels could be angled in to form a pyramid pointing to the viewers thus improving the prevention of light scatter to other in room surfaces even further. Making the scatter pattern small would mean less in room surfaces could reflect back to the screen and wash out your blacks. This could effectively make a little go a long way in a large room. For one centralised viewer you could really angle the panels in (or out nearest the screen whichever is easier). See picture below.



The other option is black curatains all round the room walls but they're a bit more objectionable for some.

I think this is one area where most CRTers without a dedicated room could get vast improvements for little money. Getting the basics right is not expensive but boy does it improve your pic!

Obviously I'd patent this technology: EMBHIHLVS - Enhanced Modulated Black Hole Inverse Horn Loaded Viewing System. No light can escape except where intended.

[tommo2]

My screen is a wall painted matt black and the screen area painted white. The walls and ceiling are white.
I was thinking of painting the ceiling and walls dark red???

[cosaw]

I was thinking of painting the ceiling and walls dark red???

Suppose it would be a compromise but I'd be slightly worried about a paint colour skewing onscreen colours. At least with black white or a shade of grey your colour gamut won't get shifted.

Hopefully one day I'll have a dedicated room - no windows matt black all round. Carry a torch or you won't be able to get out once the film has finished - that sorta thing!!

[Mad Mr H]

Without question a black wall with screen on it is a massive advantage.

Total black out in the room is perfect but not always possible.

I have mentioned to many the use of black velvet or black material to cover speakers and reduce reflections within a room they are often tall and either side of a screen, and usually have a polished finish.......

[Mad Mr H]

Originally Posted by cosaw

For one centralised viewer you could really angle the panels in (or out nearest the screen whichever is easier).

It is best to decide on an angle which the light will NOT EVER reflect back to the seating position.

a very tight angle will allow reflections back to the viewing point.

I like this idea of the screen shield, then extend it out to the walls and hide the speakers behind it as well......

Obvioulsy I like to modify peoples designs

But the "EMBHIHLVS" is a great product.

THANK YOU (as the thanks button is currently not available due to a software issue!)

[cosaw]

THANK YOU (as the thanks button is currently not available due to a software issue!)

No problem, I like to think I'm at the cutting edge of pioneering new and inovative A/V solutions! I'd sell these "blinkers" at £500 a square foot - seems reasonable!

[Mad Mr H]

Please keep for sale threads in the correct place

I will ask if we can have a high profit sales area created for you

There are some others that might way to join you there.........

[cosaw]

I will ask if we can have a high profit sales area created for you

Thats more like it! Theres no doubt at that price you'll be paying for the highest quality materials of course! For a start the felt will be 100% cotton and only the mattest and blackest of blacks! I'll probably use 4mm hardboard for the actual panels and coat with a PVA solution (diluted with only the finest Manchester tap watter filtered and distilled) to keep the chemical smell in before I apply the felt.

EMBHIHLVS will be a high performance product. Tee hee.

[Mad Mr H]

WHY WHY WHY !!!

Did you go and put this silly idea in my head............


You guys know I cant resist these things.

(James has been forgiven for the Bryston Ideas, Roland for the 1209s Blending, Barco for the modifications)

But YOU!

[cosaw]

Bryston ideas?

Enlighten me please.

[Mad Mr H]

You dont know about the bryston ideas !!!!

James came round here and "told" me that the Sony 9000ES series I had did not do my speakers justice.......

Now there are a good amp/pre amp BUt the Brystons are better.............

14 days later and 3 x 7BST series and 2 x 7B SST were installed , he was right! I did know this but I was not sure about spending that kind of money, it was worth it, but you know when you think what you are doing is right but the value means you question what you are doing and is it really gonna be worth it........

I just needed a push in the right direction......


BUT.....lets keep this thread on track.........


The idea is excellent, the cost should to be low, the result very good, It would be good for people to post the fabric type, prices and where it was purchased from.

I have a black front wall, B&Q Dulux paint, I will try and look the name up......

I have deep red walls, BUT my ceiling does reflect a little, so I do think that I should paint that black as well.......

BUT a fabric finish might be better and reduce the reflections better.

I have given thoughts to velvet, felt, paint, speaker style acoustic cloth, cotton sheet,

There will always be a limit to what can be achieved and what still looks good in the room.

The idea of a retractable blind gives a dual purpose style & effect.

is there a plain velvet wall paper that anyone has found at a reasonable cost?

I looked at the self adhesive felts but never found large enough sizes to be viable.

[cosaw]

Joking aside on the cost - I feel these are inexpensive techniques which give alot of bang for the buck. Think I payed around £9 for a 1x10m roll of black felt.

Another light control idea that I came up with which is probably of most use to air coupled machines and dedicated 16:9 setups (not to say others haven't come up with the same idea - they probably have). I've noticed how much light escapes from the tubes/lenses which is neither associated with the active image or the raster. At the back of the lens (between the lens and the tube) I'm simply thinking of a matt black piece of thick paper cut appropriately to size with a trapezoidal window which would physically do you're blanking to 16:9 of the active image. Obviously you couldn't blank down to 2.35:1 in this way but even blanking to 16:9 is gonna cover a large part of your tube especially when you think that most tubes look closer to 1:1 than 4:3.

I've noticed that the blanking on Barcos will blank out the active image (or raster if its visible) but the blanking itself still appears to emmit light - its probably bounce round off the glass surfaces in the lens tube/assembly. Actually blanking off all reflective or pottentially emiting surfaces will cut down unneccesary light emissions at source. I noticed this effect because I have a large 4:3 screen on a light coloured wall - on parts of the screen and the wall I can actually see the full outline of the tube even with no raster showing and projecting a dark image. Maybe I'll do a prototype and see if I get noticeable results - I'm positve I will.

A side issue: Thereafter you wouldn't be able to do "full" 4:3 - you'd have to do 4:3 inside 16:9 but if you've gone for a 16:9 screen anyway then you're obviously already doing this or you don't watch any 4:3 anyway.

What do you think?