View Full Version : Pioneer Blu Ray Writer!
volvofan
28-05-2006, 10:36 PM
:grin: :cool: :).Very expensive maybe of interest,http://www.play.com/Electronics/Electronics/-/542/700/-/1027692/Pioneer_BDR_101A_Blu_ray_Disc_DVD_Internal_Writer/Product.html?searchtype=genre.I'm waiting for one that supports DVD-RAM,probably Panny.
:grin: :cool: :).Very expensive maybe of interest,http://www.play.com/Electronics/Electronics/-/542/700/-/1027692/Pioneer_BDR_101A_Blu_ray_Disc_DVD_Internal_Writer/Product.html?searchtype=genre.I'm waiting for one that supports DVD-RAM,probably Panny.
Is this really compatible with BD movies ? What happens if/when BD movies appear on 50Gb DL disc ?
AVI
Sorry but that is such a total ripp off!
600 just for a drive?
Come on!, you can get the PS3 for less and its a full player as well as a console!
richard plumb
29-05-2006, 8:58 AM
Sorry but that is such a total ripp off!
600 just for a drive?
Come on!, you can get the PS3 for less and its a full player as well as a console!
how much were the first pioneer DVD burners when they came out? I remember they were a pretty penny
Nic Rhodes
29-05-2006, 9:02 AM
No difference to the Samsung BD drive at similar money, all these drives get released at this level first. Now ask the price of the discs!!
how much were the first pioneer DVD burners when they came out? I remember they were a pretty penny
I paid £3000 (yes three grand) for one for my office. It was a very cheap (yes really) way of preparing masters for duplication back in late nineties.
volvofan
29-05-2006, 10:02 AM
Early adopters will always pay the premium for these kind of products if they need/want them.I recall paying £15 for a 4.7Gb DVD-RAM disc about 4 years ago not overly concerned over media costs in the long term.I,ve no intention of buying Blu Ray at the present and no intention of buying HD-DVD at all but at least the option is there.I will wait until HDCP issues etc for commmercial Blu Ray discs are sorted then buy/upgrade my pc to acommodate a Blu Ray writer once the inevitable teething troubles have been ironed out.PS3 is a fair way off as yet but will be an option for replay purposes only,Pioneer drive can record now.I cant help feeling that both Blu Ray and HD-DVD should have launched with writers/recorders available instead of players only.:).Ps some other bits of info.http://www.play.com/Search.aspx?searchtype=ELEC&searchstring=blu+ray&page=search&pa=search&go.x=54&go.y=6.http://gryphonit.securewebstore.co.uk/INU_products/INU_ProdDetailsL2.ASP?ref=53207287&stkrefre=53207287&Err=0#x53207287.
telford_mike
29-05-2006, 10:26 PM
When the first CD burners came out I paid £5000 for a unit (actually we bought 2!). Blank discs were £30. No problems with piracy in those days - it was much cheaper to buy the real thing!
Yes fair enough, but how can they justify these prices when you can get a DVD burner for pennies?
Not enough space for ya? Then try a Hard Disk Drive which can store hundreds of gigabytes for a fraction of the cost.
If they want these new formats to succede then they have to stop ripping us off. They cant justify these prices when there are alternatives available at a fraction of the cost.
When DVD-R or even CD-R came out there werent any real alternatives so its understandable. But these days...
How do they expect 2 sepparate formats to do well when they are asking so much for a single drive?
If things keep up like this most people will just stick to DVD and Hard disk drives.
Krobar
30-05-2006, 7:29 AM
Prices will fall and in fact that is quite a cheap price for a first gen burner. Business will buy, likely for tamper proof backups that are faster and more reliable than tape.
The Medical industry took up DVD-Ram early but I think that is because they are most concerned with durability of the media and so Blu-ray may not be suitable. When writeable DVD was released, you could buy hard disks of a large size, the situations is not that different now. I still have a 4.5Gb DVD-Ram drive that cost me £350 (Has been very reliable and well supported though).
Noggin1980
30-05-2006, 9:35 AM
I agree with AML.
I don't think many business’s will buy at this price, Even the price of the discs cost considerably more per Gb than a 300Gb hardrive then you have to add on the 600 initial outlay.
Yes CD and DVD writers sold well despite the initial price but that doesn't mean that these will too. For most Situations DVDs are fine and for large backups there are hardrives. I think HD-DVD and Blu-ray capacities are stuck in the middle for backups. They aren’t large enough for backing up a hardrive so the extra capacity is only useful for a few applications.
Such extra capacity is always good but not at this price premium. Buy a hardrive.
300GB Hardrive - 22p per GB - No initial outlay
4.7GB DVD - 3.8p per GB - +25 Pounds initial outlay
8.5GB DVD - 24p per GB - +25 pounds initial outlay (6 x more expensive than the single layer DVD's and consequentially, very few people buy them, there is hardly any choice in dual layer DVD's compared to single layer DVDs. I feel this is a similar situation to Blu-ray/HD-DVD recordable media.
25GB Bluray - 72p per GB - +640 pounds initial outlay
50GB Bluray - 86p per GB - +640 pounds initial outlay (potentially more, this recorder doesn't seem to support dual layer)
So if you have a terabyte total to store you could use
4 x 300GB hardrive - 264 pounds - Cheap, easy and practical
212 x 4.7GB DVD - 63 pounds - Very cheap but 212 discs not very practical
117 x 8.5GB DVD - 265 - same price as the hardrives but not practical.
40 x 25GB Blu-ray - 1366 pounds - Ouch to the price, more practical than DVD but still less practical than the hardrives.
20 x 50GB Blu-ray - 1506 pounds - Very Ouch to the price, more practical still although still less than the hardrive imo.
If you need the hardrives to be portable than external hardrives increase the price to 38p per GB and the total cost to 456 pounds. (actually just noticed a 1000GB external drive for 373 pounds, will have slightly less than 1TB capacity when formatted though, that’s why I did the comparison with 1.2TB hardrive space) That’s going to be just as portable as 40 Blu-ray discs though and work on any computer when the blu-ray discs will only work on computers with a blu-ray drive.
Sorry if I made any mistakes that was just a quick comparison using scan, ebuyer and play.com
Sure prices will come down but at the moment I just can't see why you would buy a blu-ray burner.
richard plumb
30-05-2006, 9:51 AM
I imagine there were similar posts when DVD burners first came out. They 'only' offered 7 times the storage of existing CD burners, so why bother - just burn over a few CDs.
But they still took off.
Of course many on here won't buy one for that price, but they'll be £100 in a year or so
Nic Rhodes
30-05-2006, 9:53 AM
I made a similar comparison for storing HD material. I bought 300Gb drives and back up with DVDs.
Noggin1980
30-05-2006, 10:00 AM
I imagine there were similar posts when DVD burners first came out. They 'only' offered 7 times the storage of existing CD burners, so why bother - just burn over a few CDs.
But they still took off.
Of course many on here won't buy one for that price, but they'll be £100 in a year or so
But the fact the hardly anyone uses dual layer DVDs to back up over single layer DVD's shows that people won't start useing blu-ray discs untill the price is competative. There is twice the capacity but the 6 x cost means that they are only really used for movies.
Do you think that people are going to be willing to pay 22 times the cost of a DVD for 10 times the storage? plus a 620 pounds more inital outlay than DVD.
DVD's took off relativly quickly because there are lots of times when you need the extra capacity over a CD, the only time you need the extra capacity of a Blu-ray disc over a DVD is for HD movies and if you need to store them then use a hardrive.
I'd be surprised if the prices don't drop dramatically with at least one of the formats and that HD-DVD/Blu-ray will probably become a great way to back up. But it simply isn't now. For the vast vast majority of people there is no reason to buy a blu-ray burner now.
Even if Blu Ray and HD DVD take off most people will still preffer HDDs since they are cheap, easy to use and can store much more than even a dual layer Blu Ray.
Not to mention that they are re-writable.
To make back ups, DVD-Rs are more than enough for the average user. Its not easy to fill up a 4gb disk with stuff from your HDD.
I mean come on, what kind of stuff do people want to back up anyway?
Word documents, pictures.. thats about it.
For that, even a CDR is enough. Its only Xvids and other video that might benefit from the larger HD DVD and Blu Ray.
But how much larger is HD DVD? only 5gb larger than a dual layer DVD-R.
For back up storage I only see Blu Ray appealing to anyone.
Dont get me wrong, both HD DVD and Blu Ray are great in terms of HD playback for movies, but I dont see them taking off in terms of storage.
I don't think many business’s will buy at this price,
Business will pay.
They have done so for the past few years with anothe Blue Laser technology called UDO.
See here - http://www.plasmon.com/udo/index.html
Those things are more expensive than any bluray or hddvd product ive yet seen.
pez
Noggin1980
30-05-2006, 1:46 PM
Business will pay.
They have done so for the past few years with anothe Blue Laser technology called UDO.
See here - http://www.plasmon.com/udo/index.html
Those things are more expensive than any bluray or hddvd product ive yet seen.
pez
Fair enough sure some will but I stand by the fact that not many will untill the price comes down, the few companys that need to backup on optical media and for some reason hardrives dispite being much cheaper don't suit them already have a solution in place as you have shown.
There is no priceing on their site to compare with but this blu-ray recorder will need to be significantly cheaper for companies that have TB's of backed up data to change over. Blu-ray will need to demonstrate that it is at least as reliable as their current solution (which has a caddy) to convince them to change. It seems that the UDO product you linked too is all about secure and reliable storage, will blu-ray provide that? we will have to wait and see if the blu-ray coating is as good as the companies say.
I think the market for this player at this price is very small indeed, if we need there to be a big take up in order for prices to drop we are going to be in trouble. However its possible that these are more paper launches and they arn't too fussed about selling many players untill yeilds etc improve. Then prices will drop without large takeup.
Noggin1980
30-05-2006, 1:59 PM
I googled it the 30GB discs are about 12 pounds more expensive than the Blu-ray 25GB discs. There is no priceing yet on UDO's 60GB disc due this year.
If a company has say 10 computers with UDO drives and say 100 current UDO discs. It's going to cost about 8 grand to replace everything + the time it takes to do so. It's going to take alot of 12 pound savings on discs to make that back.
Meaning the only current market for this recorder at this price are starting buisness or ones that have only just realised they need optical media for backup and that for some reason vastly cheaper hardrives don't suit what they need. That is also completly dependent on Blu-ray being as reliable as the UDO solution which I'm highly sceptical off.
dejongj
01-06-2006, 6:48 AM
To make back ups, DVD-Rs are more than enough for the average user. Its not easy to fill up a 4gb disk with stuff from your HDD.
I mean come on, what kind of stuff do people want to back up anyway?
Word documents, pictures.. thats about it.
Hmm Don't agree with that at all. What about;
1. The footage from my Video Camera edited and without compression, 1 Tape equals 20Gb on normal SD resolution...
2. What about all those pictures from my 10Mp DSLR in RAW uncompressed format so you have a true digital negative
3. What about the shows that are being recorded from my HTPC, 1 hour barely fits on a single layer disc, 2 hours fills up a DL disc....And now the HDTV trials have started on Freeview I don't dare to imagine how much space that is taking up...
4. What about backing up my ipod....That's 60Gb on its own...Really don't want to rip all my CD's again! And I haven't even started talking about archiving that lot to put some new music and video on there....
5. An installation of a game easily takes up 4Gb on the local hard disk...So when doing a backup I'd like to include those as well so when doing a restore you don't spend hours finding all your original discs again....
And I could go on and on and on......
There is never enough space, the sooner anyone understands that rule the sooner these silly comments stop happening.....
I'm old enough to have seen memory jump up from 16Kb to 48Kb...WOW no one is ever going to fill that people were saying...Yeah right...And this discussion have been had thousands of times since.....History has proofen the statement wrong many a times, but feel free to believe your own opinion....
Noggin1980
01-06-2006, 10:06 AM
The answer to all of that is a hardrive and not blu-ray/hd-dvd (at the current price anyway) Make it 5 times cheaper then I'm sure we'd all love one.
I certainly agree you can never have enough space particularly if you use your PC as a media center. Certainly you need a couple of TB's if you plan to rip a large DVD collection to a computer.
Hardrive technology has just taken a jump and while its developed slowly over the past few years it just got fast again with the new perpendicular recording. The new 750GB drives from seagate are fantastic and the size will continue to scale quickly. They arn't at a great price per GB at the moment though, so I think multiple 300GB drives are probably still the best for a little while yet.
That said you can get 5 x 750GB (3.75TB) for the price it would cost you to buy a blu-ray burner and 1TB worth of discs.
This is only really the first generation of perpendicular hardrives. We will be seeing Terabyte and bigger drives very quickly. Maybe even before blu-ray/hd-dvd makes it to the UK.
Sillybilly
01-06-2006, 10:21 AM
. To make back ups, DVD-Rs are more than enough for the average user. Its not easy to fill up a 4gb disk with stuff from your HDD.
I mean come on, what kind of stuff do people want to back up anyway?
Word documents, pictures.. thats about it.
:confused: Errrrr...speak for yourself matey...
dejongj
01-06-2006, 11:27 PM
The answer to all of that is a hardrive and not blu-ray/hd-dvd (at the current price anyway) Make it 5 times cheaper then I'm sure we'd all love one.
Might very well be...But that wasn't the question :grin: My comments were against the joker who says a normal DVD-+R has got enough space to backup...Which if you use a HD it would be a 4Gb hard disk...And you are suggesting 5x750Gb hard disks...So I guess you are with me that a single DVD is not enough space.....
There is never enough space, the sooner anyone understands that rule the sooner these silly comments stop happening.....
I'm old enough to have seen memory jump up from 16Kb to 48Kb...WOW no one is ever going to fill that people were saying...Yeah right...And this discussion have been had thousands of times since.....History has proofen the statement wrong many a times, but feel free to believe your own opinion....
How true!!
I can remember people saying, "10mb!!! what am i going to do with a 10mb HDD"
How times have changed, you can never have enough HDD storage space!