Toshiba HD A1 cpu lag?

[n00b]

Just got my Tosh HD A1 today and haven't had a chance to watch a full movie. I did, however, put the Serenity HD-DVD in and watched about 1 min, i noticed a sort of lag where the film is not entirely smooth. I have noticed a similar thing before when playing hd ts files through my pc to the tv. Streaming the pc through my xbox360 fixed this issue.
Has anyone else seen this issue? The picture is amazing but i immediately noticed some jaggies and along with the lag problem makes me not want to watch the entire film

[The Nightfly]

I've seen what I think you are referring to, it's judder caused by playing a 24Hz source at 60Hz. Serentity was the first HD disk I saw and spotted it quite quickly. Normal R1 DVDs suffer from a similar problem but with HD-DVD looking so clean perhaps the judder tends to be more noticeable.

I normally use a video processor to play R1 sources at 48Hz to avoid the judder. This results in a silky smooth playback but to get the same result with the Toshiba A1 (which outputs 1080i at 60Hz only) is going to require a scaler that can handle inverse telecine of HD sources. My DVDO VP30 can't do that.

I seem to be very sensitive to motion artifacts like judder which can drive me crazy, others appear less so. Impressive though the HD-A1 is (and it is jawdropping), I think the judder thing might keep me away until I can put a solution in place that avoids it.

Allan

[Avi]

Originally Posted by Allan Probin

I've seen what I think you are referring to, it's judder caused by playing a 24Hz source at 60Hz. Serentity was the first HD disk I saw and spotted it quite quickly. Normal R1 DVDs suffer from a similar problem but with HD-DVD looking so clean perhaps the judder tends to be more noticeable.

I normally use a video processor to play R1 sources at 48Hz to avoid the judder. This results in a silky smooth playback but to get the same result with the Toshiba A1 (which outputs 1080i at 60Hz only) is going to require a scaler that can handle inverse telecine of HD sources. My DVDO VP30 can't do that.

I seem to be very sensitive to motion artifacts like judder which can drive me crazy, others appear less so. Impressive though the HD-A1 is (and it is jawdropping), I think the judder thing might keep me away until I can put a solution in place that avoids it.

Allan

I have the A1 and can see a slight "judder" on certain scenes in TLS. I also have a Lumagen HPD and the is noticable with the Lumagen in or out of the setup. The HPD does inverse telecine on HD but does not reduce the effect. Any other ideas ??

AVI

[n00b]

Thanks Allan, that explains it because the pc must have the same problem - obviously the xbox360 is acting as a scaler and solving the issue. Hmmm now to get my hands on a scaler...
Out of interest will the uk version of the film be 24Hz also? I guess i'm saying will UK HD-DVD's fix this or is it a player issue?

Avi are all the disks you have displaying this judder?

[Avi]

Originally Posted by n00b

Thanks Allan, that explains it because the pc must have the same problem - obviously the xbox360 is acting as a scaler and solving the issue. Hmmm now to get my hands on a scaler...
Out of interest will the uk version of the film be 24Hz also? I guess i'm saying will UK HD-DVD's fix this or is it a player issue?

Avi are all the disks you have displaying this judder?

Most likely euro HD-DVD will be 25fps. No I only notice it on certain scenes in TLS.

AVI

[The Nightfly]

n00b, the plot thickens. I wouldn't rush out and buy a scaler just yet, Avi's Lumagen should sort this out if it was telecine judder but it appears to be there still.

Avi - what output frequency are you sending to your display when running the Tosh through the Lumagen? Also, what display is it and are you using component or HDMI?

Allan

[Avi]

Originally Posted by Allan Probin

n00b, the plot thickens. I wouldn't rush out and buy a scaler just yet, Avi's Lumagen should sort this out if it was telecine judder but it appears to be there still.

Avi - what output frequency are you sending to your display when running the Tosh through the Lumagen? Also, what display is it and are you using component or HDMI?

Allan

Lumagen set to output at 1360x768p 59.94hz. The display is a Fujitsu P50XHA40US via HDMI.

AVI

[The Nightfly]

Avi - that could be your problem right there. You need to set your Lumagen to 48Hz output for inverse telecine to work correctly. The idea is that the Lumagen reconstructs the original 24Hz progressive frames from the 60Hz interlaced signal and then does a simple doubling of the 24Hz to 48Hz.

The next problem is that not too many devices accept and display 48Hz natively via a digital input. Many will perform a frame-rate conversion to 60Hz, undoing all the good work done by the scaler and re-introducing judder. Any one know if the Fuji can display 48Hz natively via HDMI?

You might want to try component as well. I seem to remember a bit of a fiasco a year or so ago with many plasma's not accepting 50Hz digitally but were fine via analog. Might be a similar situation with 48Hz.

Fortunatly I've got a display that will sync to and display a digital 48Hz signal without frame-rate conversion, its a H79 projector. I just don't have a scaler that handles HD inverse telecine. However I'm very interested to know if the judder issue can be cleaned up with a HD capable scaler.

Allan

[Avi]

Originally Posted by Allan Probin

Avi - that could be your problem right there. You need to set your Lumagen to 48Hz output for inverse telecine to work correctly. The idea is that the Lumagen reconstructs the original 24Hz progressive frames from the 60Hz interlaced signal and then does a simple doubling of the 24Hz to 48Hz.

The next problem is that not too many devices accept and display 48Hz natively via a digital input. Many will perform a frame-rate conversion to 60Hz, undoing all the good work done by the scaler and re-introducing judder. Any one know if the Fuji can display 48Hz natively via HDMI?

You might want to try component as well. I seem to remember a bit of a fiasco a year or so ago with many plasma's not accepting 50Hz digitally but were fine via analog. Might be a similar situation with 48Hz.

Fortunatly I've got a display that will sync to and display a digital 48Hz signal without frame-rate conversion, its a H79 projector. I just don't have a scaler that handles HD inverse telecine. However I'm very interested to know if the judder issue can be cleaned up with a HD capable scaler.

Allan

Allan

Thanks. The Lumagen HPD doesn't have component out as stanard so I'm limited to digital. The Fuji has a setting within the precision > progressive menu for 24 frame mode. The manual say "this function enables the optimized display of movies with 24 frames/second signals". I'll have a play with this and the 48hz output.

AVI

[Avi]

Originally Posted by n00b

Just got my Tosh HD A1 today and haven't had a chance to watch a full movie. I did, however, put the Serenity HD-DVD in and watched about 1 min, i noticed a sort of lag where the film is not entirely smooth. I have noticed a similar thing before when playing hd ts files through my pc to the tv. Streaming the pc through my xbox360 fixed this issue.
Has anyone else seen this issue? The picture is amazing but i immediately noticed some jaggies and along with the lag problem makes me not want to watch the entire film

n00b

Just something I've noticed that may help. Set the picture mode in the player setup to "film" as opposed to "Auto". I suspect this forces the detection mode and keeps it locked whereas auto may flip between film/video.

AVI

AVI

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Just a quick thing to clarify some points.

You do not have to set Lumagen to output 48Hz for inverse telecine to work. You do need to set it to 48Hz if you wish to avoid motion artefacts that are in the 60Hz source material (put there due to the telecine process of turning 24 frames per second film in to 60 fields per second video) as Allan mentioned.

HDP has a DVI-I output. This has analogue output pins. If you want to get component video out of the scaler you can using a suitably terminated cable or adaptor and by re-configuring it as per the instruction manul.

Of course, there are very few display devices that will work with 48Hz sources without trying to frc them back to something else, adding judder on the way. I played with Serenity and a ProHDP and the Tosh today and found 48Hz, 1080p in to a VPL100PJ looked pretty good

Gordon

[The Nightfly]

48Hz, 1080p in to a VPL100PJ looked pretty good

- I bet it did.

thanks Gordon.

[damo_in_sale]

Will 72Hz output from the Lumagen not help?

Originally Posted by Gordon @ Convergent AV

Just a quick thing to clarify some points.

You do not have to set Lumagen to output 48Hz for inverse telecine to work. You do need to set it to 48Hz if you wish to avoid motion artefacts that are in the 60Hz source material (put there due to the telecine process of turning 24 frames per second film in to 60 fields per second video) as Allan mentioned.

HDP has a DVI-I output. This has analogue output pins. If you want to get component video out of the scaler you can using a suitably terminated cable or adaptor and by re-configuring it as per the instruction manul.

Of course, there are very few display devices that will work with 48Hz sources without trying to frc them back to something else, adding judder on the way. I played with Serenity and a ProHDP and the Tosh today and found 48Hz, 1080p in to a VPL100PJ looked pretty good

Gordon

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Damo: 72Hz, 48Hz, 96Hz, 120 Hz...al multiples of 24...however most fixed pixel displays want to work at none of these reolutions. If it's not a video refresh of 50 or 60Hz they presume it's PC and that there is no moving image so they refresh at whatever they feel is appropriate.

The older Pioneers want 70Hz...not 72....Sony VPL10/11/12HT want 56Hz....both will result in motion artefacts

Gordon

[n00b]

ok i got around to watching serenity and only really noticed this issue at the start. glad i watched it, average film but amazing picture quality!! (odd aspect ratio though).