View Full Version : Yet another bump in the blu-ray road
klacey
16-05-2006, 8:34 PM
Sony/mgm have today said there second wave of discs is to be put back another month, not a good start for blu-ray at all.
spikerules
16-05-2006, 8:47 PM
Sony/mgm have today said there second wave of discs is to be put back another month, not a good start for blu-ray at all.
I would rather have delayed titles than rushed to stores rubbish tbh... if Sony have delayed the discs I expect they have a very good reason.
klacey
16-05-2006, 8:54 PM
I would rather have delayed titles than rushed to stores rubbish tbh... if Sony have delayed the discs I expect they have a very good reason.
Oh i dont doubt they have a good reason, just saying they are not have a good time of it at the moment, which is a shame as i want a blu-ray player too.
dino2021
16-05-2006, 9:14 PM
I guess the reports of the failure rate and the difficulty in manufacturing are true, last time I read up on it blu ray were suffering 50% more failures than HD DVD, has this changed does any one know??
I guess if both camps have made progress it could still be at 50%, unless Blu ray has made more progress than HD DVD, but with this news who knows?
http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/16/sony-throws-party-for-vaios-fakes-blu-ray-demo/
Like I said before , I've heard rumours blu-ray dual layer discs ...have yet to be seen in a functional state.
Dunno about the rumours, but that Sony Vaio claims to play dual layer! So, we've got the drives, but no discs. Interesting.
http://www.cepro.com/news/industry/10851.html
Anyone else getting suspicious yet?
Why start pressing single layer releases if you only have to wait to October to press dual?
25Gb single sided blu-ray against 30Gb dual layer hd-dvd. What happened to the superior storage capacity? 25Gb mpeg2vs 30Gb VC1....I'd take a wild stab in the dark as to which one will have superior quality.
I really wish they hadn't split the market... no one has the consumer's interests at heart.
Consumers? I can't be classified as a consumer, but I can't see how this helps me either! It's a very poor 'marketing opportunity', I've often got to make a choice for my less informed customers, how am I going to face them if I get it wrong?
How long till we get a press release along the lines of ...
"We decided 25Gb single layer was good enough for 1080p as dual layer discs were prohibitively expensive for what is to most consumers a hardly appreciable improvement in quality"
or
"we decided it made more economic sense to release two disc sets with the film on one and the extras on another"
Then try and seperate the supposed advantages of blu-ray over hd-dvd.
What a mess. This is what annoys me about blu-ray , it was all about trying to hijack the market away from an already working solution , screw the consumers and what they want lets give them something they don't need , that doesn't even work yet and big it up with capacity numbers. And we can probably make it more expensive both in the hardware and software stakes and let's get industry backing so we can strongarm the consumer into the more expensive format....
....or will the consumers just all walk away confused and disgusted and tell us to stuff both hidef disc formats .
rant over
Rant away, my friend. Why they can't behave like grown ups I have no idea. I'm sure they are both guilty of throwing the toys out of the pram. Surely one of them is going to take a big hit on this, and it's at best a 50/50 chance, looked at objectively. I wouldn't like to bet my business on those odds.
So the early adopters are supposed to run out and spend $1000 on a player and then anxiously wonder if the first releases that are likely all single layer and mpeg2 look inferior to the guy with the $500 player and the slightly cheaper format which for the time being actually has more capacity and uses a superior codec.
Someone just tell them to stop please.
klacey
17-05-2006, 11:32 AM
Just wonder how many companies who support blu-ray will get impatient and turn there backs on them and start supporting hd dvd.:devil:
Toshiba and its supporters should try and take full advantage of this, start releasing more material.
Packetfront
17-05-2006, 11:51 AM
Who cares if BD gets postponed, the studios is backing up BD all the way and is not in a hurry as they beleive BD is the format for HDTV.
To be honest if you should buy either format you should go for BD as you will never know if and when HD-DVD will get more studio support.
Sony got plenty of power and owns several of the largest studios in the world, how big is the chance Sony would give up and say we will release on HD-DVD also, not a chance in a million.
Like the movie, 5th Element, Sony exclusive, will never show up on HD-DVD.
Only solution to this mess is if both formats merge, i think that day will come they will merge both format to a completely new format which will be incompatible with both BD and HD-DVD.
That to say it would be sad for all present HD-DVD owners.
Toshiba can't release more material, they are stuck with 33% of the studio support among Universal already supports both format so it leaves Toshiba and it's HD-DVD with only 26% of the studios supporting it.
Just count all HD-DVD movies that will be released under 2006, it's not many at all.
This thing will take a loooooooooong time to settle before average Joe thinks it's a good time to buy into this new media.
How long till we get a press release along the lines of ...
"We decided 25Gb single layer was good enough for 1080p as dual layer discs were prohibitively expensive for what is to most consumers a hardly appreciable improvement in quality"
or
"we decided it made more economic sense to release two disc sets with the film on one and the extras on another"
Then try and seperate the supposed advantages of blu-ray over hd-dvd.
What a mess. This is what annoys me about blu-ray , it was all about trying to hijack the market away from an already working solution , screw the consumers and what they want lets give them something they don't need , that doesn't even work yet and big it up with capacity numbers. And we can probably make it more expensive both in the hardware and software stakes and let's get industry backing so we can strongarm the consumer into the more expensive format....
....or will the consumers just all walk away confused and disgusted and tell us to stuff both hidef disc formats .
rant over
One of the considerations between the two formats is the cost of a title. Most of the HD-DVD I've bought cost me around $18-$22 which doesn't seem too bad considering the PQ on 30gb media in VC1. Some suggested BD titles would be more expensive in general but the initial releases look similar to HD-DVD. Is this because they use 25gb media? Will there be any difference in cost to Joe P if/when they move to 50gb media? I'm trying not to be too cynical.
I guess we can speculate about how MPEG2 on a 25Gb will look but we won't know for certain until we can watch them and draw comparison to HD-DVD.
AVI
Packetfront
17-05-2006, 11:55 AM
I've often got to make a choice for my less informed customers, how am I going to face them if I get it wrong?
Easy, you confront your customers and take your slap as a real man should do. ;)
Timbo21
17-05-2006, 12:01 PM
Just wonder how many companies who support blu-ray will get impatient and turn there backs on them and start supporting hd dvd.:devil:
Toshiba and its supporters should try and take full advantage of this, start releasing more material.
It's human nature for anyone to want to be on the winning side, and if HD DVD is doing well & Blu-ray is stalling then hopefully the studios will relent & either go with HD-DVD, or release on both. At first I was a definite supporter of Blu-ray, but I like the sound of HD-DVD using mpeg4 over the old mpeg2 of Blu-ray, & I also like what M$ are doing with the format in terms of internet interactivity. Blu-ray sounds like some dodgy outmoded 50's sci-fi film thingy :god:. Reminds me of laser-disc. HD-DVD sounds modern & quite simply tells you what it is: an update on DVD. Let's face it we used to imagine a future of lasers & rays, but it was just a sort of silly dream of the future. With the name Blu-ray Sony have tapped into this silly outdated vision, & I believe that's what their product will become.
Q.What's HD-DVD?
A.It's Hi definition DVD. Nice simple answer :thumbsup: .
Q.What's Blu-ray?
A. It's a new format that plays Hi Definition using a blue laser rather than a red one used for normal DVD, but it looks like DVD. Let's face it the average person not into av will just be :confused: :confused:
Noggin1980
17-05-2006, 12:06 PM
Just count all HD-DVD movies that will be released under 2006, it's not many at all.
There is currently more announced HD-DVD titles than Blu-ray titles. Blu-ray certainly has the studio support advantage on paper but HD-DVD has many other advantages the most significant being its half the price.
Siamese Cat
17-05-2006, 5:27 PM
It is impossible for anyone to know which of these two systems are more likely to succeed, they each have things for and against them but the factors that will lead to one dominating the other aren't known. How will price compare a year or two down the line, which will have most films available, will there be a significant performance advantage of one over another, which has the best marketing team. We can have opinions on these things but no one knows the answers or even if these are the most important questions. What we do know though is that when people are faced with an uncallable decision the most likely outcome is that they avoid having to make it. I.E. They'll buy neither. When faced with an impossible decision peole will only put their money down one way or another when the pressure to do so or the rewards are so large that they have to or really want to.
The Bluray/HD DVD 'war' is being likened to the VHS and Beta war of 25 years ago but in reality neither have anything like the advantage over the status quo that vcrs had. Then, if you didn't buy a vcr, you were stuck with just a few channels, buying either tape system gave you the ability to timeshift and watch rental tapes. A massive advantage over the status quo that justified the risk of the wrong decision. You just had to have one. That's not the case now. Now if you choose to opt out of the war you still have ordinary DVD (and a DVD player the cost of a Bluray player can make it look sensational) and, of course, you can get Hi Def from Sky or Telewest at a reasonable price and at no risk of buying the 'wrong' system. The differences between now and then are simply enormous.
If I had to bet my money would be on both systems going the way of SACD and...what's the other one called...? oh yes... DVD Audio
A plague on both their houses. They deserve to fail.
Now if you choose to opt out of the war you still have ordinary DVD (and a DVD player the cost of a Bluray player can make it look sensational)
A DVD player called the Toshiba HD-A1 can make DVD's look sensational for half the cost of current BD players. Plus it can play those HD-DVD things as well :devil: Really it upscales DVD very well and is a good as the Denon 2910/3910 in the PQ department
AVI
A plague on both their houses. They deserve to fail.
Hear hear. As to support transerring alleigance, there are quite a number of firms sitting on the fence hardware wise, including a Japanese audio company who are part of the Toshiba family by marriage! It could paralyse the hardware makers, they are just not big/profitable enough to cope if they get it wrong. Not much of a problem for a film studio, just press some different discs really. I hear Pioneer have put back the release of their Blu ray machine, there's a firm too small to take risks, I'd bet that's what is happening there.
Siamese Cat
17-05-2006, 5:57 PM
That could be an interesting marketing strategy.....market them as DVD players that can play HD DVD!
Nic Rhodes
17-05-2006, 6:34 PM
Really it upscales DVD very well and is a good as the Denon 2910/3910 in the PQ department
AVI
That bad? :(
That could be an interesting marketing strategy.....market them as DVD players that can play HD DVD!
If we can make them multiregion on the dvd side and the euro players have no compatability issues with US discs then that rationale is working wonders for me.
That bad? :(
Well or should I say - almost as good (almost) as my 963 SDI via Lumagen HPD. It's that bad.
Sound any better ?
AVI
Nic Rhodes
17-05-2006, 6:49 PM
a bit ;)
cybersoga
17-05-2006, 6:55 PM
I was planning on getting a $1000 Sony blu-ray player to compliment my Toshiba HD-DVD player, but i've come to my senses and canceled the pre order for the 4 blu-ray discs I had with amazon. Looking at my dvd collection, most of them are Warner & Universal and there's enough HD-DVDs coming out this year to keep me entertained, so i'm putting off blu-ray at least until next year.
andyturner28
17-05-2006, 9:55 PM
I can't believe we are going through all this crap after the VHS v Beatamax war. Do these people ever learn.
I will probably be one of the early adopters so what happens if i go for HD DVD and 6 months later it becomes a dead format. It's just like when i bought a PSP instaed of a portable DVD player for watching films when i am travelling, only to find out a couple of weeks ago they are not making any more UMD's. AGHHHHHH!! I hate format wars.
Packetfront
17-05-2006, 11:16 PM
I hate format wars.
You always have a choice, many people can't resist their feelings and do not use their brain for logic descisions.
Of course, the best way is to stay out of this format war and wait what will happen, it doesn't hurt to wait either as things only get better with time when it comes to technology.
orrelljet
18-05-2006, 6:55 AM
Who cares if BD gets postponed, the studios is backing up BD all the way and is not in a hurry as they beleive BD is the format for HDTV.
To be honest if you should buy either format you should go for BD as you will never know if and when HD-DVD will get more studio support.
Sony got plenty of power and owns several of the largest studios in the world, how big is the chance Sony would give up and say we will release on HD-DVD also, not a chance in a million.
Like the movie, 5th Element, Sony exclusive, will never show up on HD-DVD.
Only solution to this mess is if both formats merge, i think that day will come they will merge both format to a completely new format which will be incompatible with both BD and HD-DVD.
That to say it would be sad for all present HD-DVD owners.
Toshiba can't release more material, they are stuck with 33% of the studio support among Universal already supports both format so it leaves Toshiba and it's HD-DVD with only 26% of the studios supporting it.
Just count all HD-DVD movies that will be released under 2006, it's not many at all.
This thing will take a loooooooooong time to settle before average Joe thinks it's a good time to buy into this new media.
Although I agree Sony are a major player in studioland, you can't argue with cold hard cash. If the gen. public start looking towards HD DVD, because of its cheaper players, cheaper media etc. then Sony will have no choice but to give in to peer pressure.
I firmly believe my Sony SLV-X9G VCR is one of the best consumer decks ever made, but can I get my old Betamax tapes to fit?
Krobar
18-05-2006, 7:56 AM
Like the movie, 5th Element, Sony exclusive, will never show up on HD-DVD.
Actually it is owned by Paramount in Japan so we might see a Japanese HD-DVD release.
all this talk of winning formats, but i dont think we'll see any kind of mass acceptance of either format until you can rent the disks in your local Global Video and Tan (yep, they have tanning beds too!).
pez
richard plumb
18-05-2006, 8:42 AM
I think MAW is right in saying its a toss-up as to who (if any) will fail and who will win.
Arguing 25GB single-layer Vs 30GB dual layer is nonsense IMO as you'd get a great MPEG4 movie on either.
Arguing 'new' MPEG4 Vs 'old' MPEG2 is also nonsense as MPEG2 is more mature and anyway its only one studio that has decided to use it for initial titles. It says nothing about what codecs are likely to be used on bluray discs. I'd expect the actual master on other studios discs to be the same on both formats (where a studio is releasing on both)
HDDVD is cheaper, bluray has more support. If only bluray was cheaper, or HDDVD had more support the prediction would be a little easier. But right now it really is guesswork.