View Full Version : Blu-Ray for £220
mgillespie
04-05-2006, 12:34 PM
Lots of rumours that PS3 price will be announced this week, and it will be $US499
That's £270.
If that's true, it will obliterate the £500 HD-DVD players..
(Prices ammended 12/10/2006, now the Sony pricing is not longer a rumour).
danvitale
04-05-2006, 12:47 PM
Queue Wayne's World Monkeys/Flying out of butt quote..
Matt Horne
04-05-2006, 12:54 PM
Just like the PS2 blows out the Arcam/Denon/pioneer dvd players....
Lots of rumours that PS3 price will be announced this week, and it will be $US399
That's £220.
If that's true, it will obliterate the £500 HD-DVD players..
That will only be £220 if you bring buy one in the USA & pay in $, that way you can safely say you paid $399/£220.00.
Otherwise, they'll do what they normally do & match £ or $-IE $399=£399. :thumbsdow
How much in $ was the XBOX 360 when they were released in the USA as a comparison?
[Edit]-They are (and must have been at launch as there have been no price cuts since) $399 (plus tax) in the USA, & £280 in the UK for the Premium bundle:http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=999947300050001&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat66900050001&id=pcmprd47500050001
According to Travelex, $399=£202, so why is the console £280 here? :rolleyes:
It's nice to do $ to £ comparisons, unfortunately they don't always work out in a black & white fashion.
But using the same logic if the PS3 launches at $399 then is "should" be £280 or so in the UK....
The_Wierd
04-05-2006, 1:06 PM
I'll betcha it isn't $399, and even if it is that usually translates into £399. I reckon it'll actually be $499 if the rumours about the cost of hardware are to be believed. Also since HD-DVD standalones cost around $500, then Sony can probably get away with a similar price for a next-gen console which also plays BR discs.
AFSTER
04-05-2006, 1:14 PM
Just like the PS2 blows out the Arcam/Denon/pioneer dvd players....
Well said
shaithis
04-05-2006, 1:16 PM
As we have been saying for a while now....
How good is the playback going to be?
If a BD player costs $999 and a PS3 costs $399, who is going to buy the stand-alone player if the PS3s playback is good?
And if no-one buys the stand-alone player, how are they going to recoup their R&D costs.
It doesn't add up. Either the PS3 is going to be pricey ($599 anyone?) or its playback is going to be noticably inferior to the first gen BluRay players.
mheaford
04-05-2006, 2:17 PM
[Edit]-They are (and must have been at launch as there have been no price cuts since) $399 (plus tax) in the USA, & £280 in the UK for the Premium bundle:http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=999947300050001&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat66900050001&id=pcmprd47500050001
According to Travelex, $399=£202, so why is the console £280 here? :rolleyes:
It's nice to do $ to £ comparisons, unfortunately they don't always work out in a black & white fashion.
That exchange rate is not really right, if you turned up to Travelex with $400 dollars to change back to sterling they will give you £201 but as we all know you are getting ripped off converting that way. If you enter into their converter £201 and convert it $ it comes out at $357.
If you todays tourist rate of about 1.78 (from the Travelex site) then $399 comes out at £225 and add that VAT as $399 is the tax exclusive price in the USA it comes to £264.
I think Microsoft are fair in their pricing of the 360 as no company is ever going to base their price in the UK on an exchange rate of 1.78 as history shows that is a pretty high rate. If the rate dropped below 1.67, using the same maths as above then we would actually be paying less than the USA based on the before tax price.
jameslindsey
04-05-2006, 2:46 PM
£-$ conversions for kit dont generally work as the US market is roughly the same size as Europe as a whole - economies of scale. Adding in the extra costs of producing multiple language packaging & manuals as well as different power plugs and the higher cost of marketing in the UK, US kit will always be cheaper I'm afraid.
Whilst the PS3 is going to be an interesting prospect, certainly a winner as a gaming platform, how many people played CDs on their PS1 or DVDs on their PS2? It will possibly create sales with a few people experimenting with the odd BR disc once they have a PS3 but I dont think the artifically low (funded by games prices) price of consoles will eat into standalone player sales.
That exchange rate is not really right, if you turned up to Travelex with $400 dollars to change back to sterling they will give you £201 but as we all know you are getting ripped off converting that way. If you enter into their converter £201 and convert it $ it comes out at $357.
If you todays tourist rate of about 1.78 (from the Travelex site) then $399 comes out at £225 and add that VAT as $399 is the tax exclusive price in the USA it comes to £264.
I think Microsoft are fair in their pricing of the 360 as no company is ever going to base their price in the UK on an exchange rate of 1.78 as history shows that is a pretty high rate. If the rate dropped below 1.67, using the same maths as above then we would actually be paying less than the USA based on the before tax price.
Where will the PS3 be manufactured/assembled ? If it's outside the EU there will also be some form of duty in addition to VAT.
AVI
$700
499pounds
my fellows oh yes indeedy
Noggin1980
04-05-2006, 3:10 PM
Lots of rumours that PS3 price will be announced this week, and it will be $US399
That's £220.
If that's true, it will obliterate the £500 HD-DVD players..
HD-DVD's are not 500 pounds. They are $499 currently. I'd expect to pay less than 300 pounds when the player is released here in November most likely.
There is also no way we will get the PS3 at 220 pounds here if the console launches this year as promised.
tryingtimes
04-05-2006, 3:10 PM
Firstly, the mass public wont go out and buy a PS3 without needing/wanting games.
Secondly, as people have pointed out - it's going to be up against all the sony Blueray players and will be making a loss, so it's going to cost them a lot of money if it's much cheaper and performs as well - it wont.
Thirdly HD-DVD is $499 so it's only $100 cheaper and there will definitely be $399 players around by the time of the PS3 launch.
Will PS3 be a factor in the success of BD? YES!
Will PS3's $399 price mean an end to HD-DVD? NO!
HD-DVD's are not 500 pounds. They are $499 currently. I'd expect to pay less than 300 pounds when the player is released here in November most likely.
There is also no way we will get the PS3 at 220 pounds here if the console launches this year as promised.
Think about this. £220 minus VAT = £187 less retailer discount (say 30%) =£144 ! That's assuming there's no other duty. How much will this cost Sony !
AVI
Noggin1980
04-05-2006, 3:40 PM
Think about this. £220 minus VAT = £187 less retailer discount (say 30%) =£144 ! That's assuming there's no other duty. How much will this cost Sony !
AVI
Exactly, if we get the PS3 in Britain in November at 299 pounds we can concider ourselves very very lucky imo. No chance of it being 220 here.
Though I think the retailers make a very small profit on console hardware at launch time. I doubt they will be making 40+ pounds on each console, its one of the reasons they are so keen on bundles.
Think about it : matsushita are going to be over the moon with their blu-ray players priced at $1200 competing with partner Sony's subsidised loss making blu-ray capable PS3 at $299.
Not going to happen people.... $700 and thats with sony still making a huge loss on each unit.
Of course this is assuming we ever see blu-ray released with its much vaunted 50Gb dual layer capacity (which no-one has seen yet) and that's before we get into whether they can manage it at prices that compete with hd-dvd.
Would be somewhat ironic if blu-ray finally launches with only 25gb single layer capacity after criticising hd-dvd for only providing 30Gb in a dual layer format.
And then microsoft launch the hd-dvd addon for the 360 for $200 ,(admittedly this does have the heady tang of vaporware atached to it) and the 200gb hard drive for downloading hidef ppv movies to the 360.
Lots on zantac being delivered to sony I hear.
Noggin1980
04-05-2006, 3:53 PM
(admittedly this does have the heady tang of vaporware atached to it)
why Vaporware, we are surposed to be hearing alot more about the HD-DVD add on in less than a week.
why Vaporware, we are surposed to be hearing alot more about the HD-DVD add on in less than a week.
Until we see it , until its functional , until we know what it will cost...its vapourware...a bit like the PS3:grin:
tryingtimes
04-05-2006, 3:55 PM
wow $700 is a lot Keith - it's basically out of the reach of any teanager's christmas - I don't know how much of the market is now <17 years old, but I find it hard to see it launching for more than $399
Noggin1980
04-05-2006, 4:04 PM
Until we see it , until its functional , until we know what it will cost...its vapourware...a bit like the PS3:grin:
Thats not really the way I view the term vaporware. There is a very high chance that both the PS3 and HD-DVD add on for the 360 will exist and thus arn't vaporware.
I guess if MS don't show the HD-DVD add on at E3 as they have said they will then there is probably cause for concern and a there is a chance it could be vaporware. But since we are 4 days from E3 it doesn't seem like a good time to be calling it that.
Kutaragi has already said its going to be pricey and not competative with the other consoles as its"more". $700 might be pushing it a bit admittedly.
"Whether consumers think a product is expensive or cheap all depends on the balance between its appeal and price," he said. "Our ideal [for the PS3] is for consumers to think to themselves, 'OK, I'll work more hours and buy it.' We want people to feel that they want it, no matter what."
That doesn't sound like anything that's goign to compete price wise with the 360.
I doubt it will be under $400 and I bet you have to buy another $100 worth of peripherals to make it worthwhile ( PS2 anyone?)
And at the risk of coming across like some 360 fan-boy , I have numerous friends who work in the games industry and work with PS3 dev kits who say the difference between the consoles capabilities ( PS3 vs 360) is spit.
And you just know Sony is not going to have anything as slick as Live.
The relevance of all this , those that do buy the PS3 will not primarily be doing it for the blu-ray capability and on console terms it has to compete with the 360 which will offer little if anything in the way of inferior performance will be significantly cheaper and already has a respectable market cachet on its own terms.
So the secret weapon in the blu-ray camp might very well turn out to be a damp squib with regard to number of sales , and possibly more importantly the number of buyers that actually make use of the blu-ray capability .
But since we are 4 days from E3 it doesn't seem like a good time to be calling it that.
Why ? I'd put money on the hd-dvd add-on either not being present in any shape or form or being a non-functional mock up thats not even confirmed as the finished article.
You make it sound like I should be worried if any of my comments are proven wrong...who cares we are all hypothesizing here.
matt_p
04-05-2006, 4:25 PM
wow $700 is a lot Keith - it's basically out of the reach of any teanager's christmas - I don't know how much of the market is now <17 years old, but I find it hard to see it launching for more than $399
I don't think Sony are really aiming at the teen market any more. So many of the PS3's features are geared around BluRay this, 1080p that... they're clearly aiming for the minted 20-somethings with lots of money and no kids.
How many PS3s are going to be plugged into a 14" Matsui in a 12 year old's bedroom? Not many I'd guess. I agree with Keith, as regards the price. It is going to be pricey indeed.
tryingtimes
04-05-2006, 4:27 PM
I've just started an E3 predictions thread in the gaming forum. Add yours and see who's right in just a few days :grin:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338728
Mattk84
04-05-2006, 4:31 PM
The strongest rumour I heard was that the ps3 will cost £340.
Sony are gonna lose one hell of a lot of money per console sold.
Evil Engineer
04-05-2006, 7:00 PM
Can anyone see a pattern here?
Playstation1: Launch price= £299
Playstation2: Launch price= £299
Playstation3: Launch price= £.....
Sony will stick to what they know.
It doesn't matter how much the components inside the PS3 cost. The only thing that matters is how much money Sony are prepared to loose.
And Sony have made an allowance for the gaming division to loose 100 Billion Yen in the coming financial year.
That's roughly £500 million ,people!
Link:http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/HD29Dh03.html
Nic Rhodes
05-05-2006, 6:19 AM
I would be amazed if Sony got the PS3 to market in the UK less than £300. I'm thinking £350 most likely and if we are unlucky £400.
Re HD DVD pricing, I expect to see launch players at something nearer £450 to £500 here in the UK, if you are expecting any of these toys at £200, then people are deluding themselves.
and yes, HD DVD drive for 360 and PS3 are still vaporware.
danvitale
05-05-2006, 7:17 AM
One thing to remember is that aparently the Cell chip yield from each wafer is "awful" according to reports, this may mean that unless they manage to get more chips per fabrication cycle, there will be less units available at launch.
This in turn will mean that the PS3 will likely be packaged with a ton of games and an extra controller to maximise profit-per-unit costs for any shop that aquires any console stock for launch.
Personally, I'd say £299 to £349 for a standalone package launch price, but I think we will be seeing packages with three games + controller plus the console for around £475 to £525 come november.
50,000 to 70,000 yen is what im hearing, with the xbox360 getting a price drop (at least in japan) to 30,000, to try and claw some market share.
pez
richard plumb
05-05-2006, 8:21 AM
if (big if) PS3 is $399, I'd expect it to be £299 over here. Although Sony these days prices in Euros, so we might end up with an odd amount. Eg 399 Euro/£279
As for comments about its playback quality, well one levelling factor is that for bluray playback (as opposed to DVD playback) its an all digital path. So the quality (or lack of) of the video DACs etc aren't important.
A lot of the cost of bluray players initially will be because they'll be like early HD DVD players. Lots of expensive chips in. Well the PS3 will already have lots of expensive chips in, so thats 'free' - and actually subsidised by Sony so PS3 being cheaper than a standalone player isn't a surprise.
I'd say that technically there is nothing stopping PS3 being a good bluray player - and if you are buying one anyway, you might as well hold off on bluray until you see/read how it manages.
richard plumb
05-05-2006, 8:24 AM
Kutaragi has already said its going to be pricey and not competative with the other consoles as its"more". $700 might be pushing it a bit admittedly.
"Whether consumers think a product is expensive or cheap all depends on the balance between its appeal and price," he said. "Our ideal [for the PS3] is for consumers to think to themselves, 'OK, I'll work more hours and buy it.' We want people to feel that they want it, no matter what."
That doesn't sound like anything that's goign to compete price wise with the 360. .
smoke and mirrors. They did the same thing with PSP.
'Ooh, its so fantastic, and the screen is so amazing, its a really expensive bit of kit'.
- cue internet forums lighting up with speculation of $500+ pricetags.
then when its announced at $249 everyone suddently thinks its amazing value for money.
tryingtimes
05-05-2006, 8:26 AM
Yep I agree Richard (although it'll be $399 ;)). But everyone will see that as reasonable now, which is perfect for them.
Lets face it it will sell out for the first 6 months.
Nic Rhodes
05-05-2006, 8:27 AM
But it isn't the DACs and those other chips that held the other consoles back in the DVD replay. They did the basics wrong at the MPEG decoding stage and then made a mess of the deinterlacing. Luckily the latter may have been largely eliminated but the MPEG ? still exists. It was never about the power of the hips but what they did that mattered.
spikerules
05-05-2006, 8:28 AM
people always forget that we get screwed here in the UK. If its $399, then it'll likely be £399.
Noggin1980
05-05-2006, 8:40 AM
people always forget that we get screwed here in the UK. If its $399, then i'll likely be £399.
Things do generally cost more here but dispite how often people say that we pay the same price in pounds and as they do in dollars it only happens rarely.
tryingtimes
05-05-2006, 8:43 AM
I wouldn't say it was rare in general, but it certainly is with very price-sensitive items like consoles.
spikerules
05-05-2006, 8:48 AM
Things do generally cost more here but dispite how often people say that we pay the same price in pounds and as they do in dollars it only happens rarely.
With consoles it seems to always happen like for like $ for £, which IMHO isn't on in most cases!
richard plumb
05-05-2006, 8:54 AM
not these days. Since the Euro came in its become more like $1=€1, and then £s are converted from Euros
We've actually had some OK prices recently compared to the olden days.
Noggin1980
05-05-2006, 9:10 AM
With consoles it seems to always happen like for like $ for £, which IMHO isn't on in most cases!
The last 3 games machines were the 360, PSP and DS right?
360 - $499
- £279
PSP - $249.99 (according to wikipedia)
- £149.99 (according to wikipedia)
DS - $149.99
- ££99.99
The Xbox did launch at the same price in dollars and pounds but within a couple of months knocked £100 pounds off the launch price and thus stoping the $ and £ price being the same. Not exactly ideal by MS but to be fair to them anyone who brought at the launch price was given 2 games and a controller to make up for it.
So maybe we did used to get screwed by console prices, but with the internet being so prevelent now with everyone knowing what everyone else is paying I think its something that only happens rarely now.
I just checked amazon.co.uk vs amazon.com and checked the price of 2 random cds, games, books, dvds and peices of electrical equipment and not one 10 items had the same price in both $ and pounds. So I stand by the fact that its rare. We do seem to be hard done to when it comes to TV priceing though I think. Not only compared to the US but also to europe.
spikerules
05-05-2006, 9:31 AM
The last 3 games machines were the 360, PSP and DS right?
360 - $499
- £279
PSP - $249.99 (according to wikipedia)
- £149.99 (according to wikipedia)
DS - $149.99
- ££99.99
The Xbox did launch at the same price in dollars and pounds but within a couple of months knocked £100 pounds off the launch price and thus stoping the $ and £ price being the same. Not exactly ideal by MS but to be fair to them anyone who brought at the launch price was given 2 games and a controller to make up for it.
So maybe we did used to get screwed by console prices, but with the internet being so prevelent now with everyone knowing what everyone else is paying I think its something that only happens rarely now.
I just checked amazon.co.uk vs amazon.com and checked the price of 2 random cds, games, books, dvds and peices of electrical equipment and not one 10 items had the same price in both $ and pounds. So I stand by the fact that its rare. We do seem to be hard done to when it comes to TV priceing though I think. Not only compared to the US but also to europe.
Well this is good news then! So if the US get PS3 for $399 we should get it for £200:thumbsup:
tryingtimes
05-05-2006, 9:38 AM
Yes, I'm starting to think Mr.D is right - If Xbox360 really is $499, then the PS3 could easily be $599.
mgillespie
06-05-2006, 12:11 PM
Yes, I'm starting to think Mr.D is right - If Xbox360 really is $499, then the PS3 could easily be $599.
Mr D sounds like a Xbox fanboy. Whilst £220 is unrealistic, £299 is more realistic. Over £400, forget about it,it would be commercial suicide, and Sony know this.
Whilst PS3 has Blu-Ray, most consumers will not appreciate this when comparing XBox360 vs PS3 pricing.
You can bet that MS will drop XBox360 price in Nov to spoil Sony's party (£199??).. Sony may be able to get £100/$100 more for their console, perhaps a bit more but that's about it.
This is why I think the $299/£299/299Euro price is a reality, as by then XBox360 will be £199/$199/199Eu
Mr D sounds like a Xbox fanboy.
Really now thats surprising considering I've owned just about every console under the sun since the atari 800.
Noggin1980
06-05-2006, 3:17 PM
This is why I think the $299/£299/299Euro price is a reality, as by then XBox360 will be £199/$199/199Eu
The xbox 360 is currently $400 and 279 pounds. There is no way they will halve its price in November in the states to $199 while only knocking 79 pounds of the UK price.
299 pounds would be the number I would go with if I had to bet on a PS3 price but it definatly won't be $299. Thats $100 cheaper than the 360 at launch.
The PS3 would be discustingly overpriced in this country if we end up paying the same in pounds as they do in dollars. I can't see any way at all it will happen.
Can anyone see a pattern here?
Playstation1: Launch price= £299
Playstation2: Launch price= £299
Playstation3: Launch price= £.....
Sony will stick to what they know.
It doesn't matter how much the components inside the PS3 cost. The only thing that matters is how much money Sony are prepared to loose.
And Sony have made an allowance for the gaming division to loose 100 Billion Yen in the coming financial year.
That's roughly £500 million ,people!
Link:http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/HD29Dh03.html
There is one main thing wrong with your pricing presumption, dvd players were already selling for $300 in walmart and had been around for 3 years, blue ray is currenly not due until june (been delayed to then last week), the technology is still not final, blue ray players will be retailing for $1000
sony are on a tightrope trying to keep the blueray partners on side that wont want to be priced out of the market by the ps3, if sony get it wrong i could see mass defections to hd-dvd by various manufacturers
Cloysterpeteuk
07-05-2006, 6:48 AM
It's so obvious that it's going to be £299 as Sony simply can't afford to sell it any higher, the high price of the components will sting Sony in the short term until they drop but just how much do you think poor market share/penetration would hurt them in the long term if they attempt to go with a £300+ price tag, they would lose so much market share to the Xbox that it will seriously damage the success of the PS3 and therefore is not financially viable to do launch at such a high cost.
Remember an over £300 price is a huge barrier most parents simply won't be willing to break, they will see a over £300 tag and end up buying a 360!
richard plumb
07-05-2006, 8:55 AM
agree with you Cloysterpeteuk
The only variable IMO is the pricing of Xbox 360. Sony are reasonably happy with 'premium' pricing, and have shown that over the years. But there is a limit to that, and if MS drop the price of the Xbox 360 they need to be ready for that.
for that reason I'd expect PS3 to match the US Xbox360 premium pack price
tryingtimes
07-05-2006, 9:01 AM
I wouldn't be surprised at all if neither Sony nor Nintendo announced prices until a month before launch.
Evil Engineer
07-05-2006, 11:30 AM
There is one main thing wrong with your pricing presumption, dvd players were already selling for $300 in walmart and had been around for 3 years, blue ray is currenly not due until june (been delayed to then last week), the technology is still not final, blue ray players will be retailing for $1000
sony are on a tightrope trying to keep the blueray partners on side that wont want to be priced out of the market by the ps3, if sony get it wrong i could see mass defections to hd-dvd by various manufacturers
I don't see how the cost of DVD players back in 2000 had any bearing on the PS2 launch price and I don't see how the cost of stand alone Bluray players will have any effect on Sony's present day strategy.
All the other Bluray hardware manufacturers have known about PS3 for a long time and none of them would have needed a crystal ball to work out that PS3 would be significantly cheaper than their stand alone players.
It makes very little difference if PS3 is £300 or £400. It will still be half the price of the average stand alone Bluray player even at the higher price.
However, it will make a massive difference to Sony's strategy of getting Bluray in as many homes as possible in the hope that they will start buying the discs.
richard plumb
07-05-2006, 11:55 AM
how many HDDVD manufacturers are p***ed off about Toshiba launching at $500? thats not a practical price, and Toshiba are only doing it in an attempt to get marketshare fast, and early. If your argument held up, they wouldn't be doing that as it would upset the other HDDVD manufacturers.
astirling
07-05-2006, 12:54 PM
What's the advantage in Toshiba gaining market share? I can see the point of consoles selling at a loss as they make the money back on games and in 'Live' subscriptions. Do Toshiba get a cut of every movie sold?
tryingtimes
07-05-2006, 12:56 PM
Personally I think the other BRD manaufacturers have a lot to gain with PS3 being cheap and popular, but probably not at launch.
Same for tosh - they're making a loss and it will eventually do the other HD-DVD companies good.
Evil Engineer
07-05-2006, 2:35 PM
What's the advantage in Toshiba gaining market share? I can see the point of consoles selling at a loss as they make the money back on games and in 'Live' subscriptions. Do Toshiba get a cut of every movie sold?
Toshiba hold most of the patents on HD-DVD. They will get a royalty from every single disc and player carrying the HD-DVD logo that gets sold.
If HD-DVD wins then Toshsiba stand to make a lot of money over the next ten years and the same goes for Sony with their Bluray patents.
This is why both sides are prepared to heavily subsidise their early hardware to win the war.
Sony and Philips made most of the royalty money from CDs but effectively lost out to Toshiba when the DVD standard was agreed. Sony want to get these royalties back with Bluray while Toshiba want to continue the current status quo with HD-DVD.
Neither side backed down during their brief talks last year and neither side will back down now. Too much money at stake.
beardtm
07-05-2006, 11:57 PM
Lots of rumours that PS3 price will be announced this week, and it will be $US399
That's £220.
If that's true, it will obliterate the £500 HD-DVD players..
Just like the ps2 obliterates my £40 asda pacific dvd player? :P
From what i remember PS2 has a crappy dvd player, with green screen over RGB.
I very much doubt the Blu Ray player in PS3 will be of any decent quality.
And i very much doubt PS3 will be making an appearance at anything under £400.
I don't see how the cost of DVD players back in 2000 had any bearing on the PS2 launch price and I don't see how the cost of stand alone Bluray players will have any effect on Sony's present day strategy.
erm the dvd player cost the same as a ps2 in 2000, no reason to desuede joe blogs movie watcher to buy a dvd player which gives sony an instant profit instead of a $100 loss on the sale of a ps2 as a dvd player
present day
joe bloggs movie watcher buys a $399 ps3 which gives an instant $200, probably more loss for sony instead of buying an $800 player which gives an instant profit
:rolleyes:
business isnt about "instant".
pez
Noggin1980
08-05-2006, 8:29 AM
Personally I think the other BRD manaufacturers have a lot to gain with PS3 being cheap and popular, but probably not at launch.
Same for tosh - they're making a loss and it will eventually do the other HD-DVD companies good.
If the PS3 is going to be the same price as the 360 is now then I think they will announce the price over the coming week at E3, maybe even today (its the sony conferance at about midnight our time). This will keep the people who are on the edge of buying a 360 waiting to see what the PS3 can do for the same price.
If the PS3 is going to be $499 or higher then I don't think Sony will announce it for quite some time. It doesn't do them any good for people to know for sure that they will be more expensive. All it will do is encourage 360 sales.
Evil Engineer
08-05-2006, 9:47 AM
erm the dvd player cost the same as a ps2 in 2000, no reason to desuede joe blogs movie watcher to buy a dvd player which gives sony an instant profit instead of a $100 loss on the sale of a ps2 as a dvd player
present day
joe bloggs movie watcher buys a $399 ps3 which gives an instant $200, probably more loss for sony instead of buying an $800 player which gives an instant profit
:rolleyes:
Are you seriously suggesting that PS3 will launch at the same price as stand alone Bluray players????? :rotfl:
I would have thought this was fairly obvious, but PS3 is a games console. It has to launch at a price that hardcore gamers are prepared to pay. That means that the absolute top price is £400 so no matter what happens the PS3 will be half the price of the stand alone players.
Everybody knows this. Sony knows it and all the other Bluray manufacturers know it as well.
The PS3 is aimed at gamers who Sony hopes can be pursuaded to by Bluray discs. The stand alone players are aimed at CE early adoptors and home cinema fanatics.
These are two totally different markets. The type of person who pays £800+ for a video disc player will not be interested in a games console.
shaithis
08-05-2006, 10:07 AM
The PS3 is aimed at gamers who Sony hopes can be pursuaded to by Bluray discs. The stand alone players are aimed at CE early adoptors and home cinema fanatics.
These are two totally different markets. The type of person who pays £800+ for a video disc player will not be interested in a games console.
So, you also think that the PS3s BD-playback will suck compared to stand-alone players?
danvitale
08-05-2006, 10:47 AM
It may suck, but the players will be out there for the consumer. And thats why theres more movie maker backing.
The PS3 BluRay playback will be in people's homes.. and thats what new media launches require.
I don't follow the console scene very closely, but could there be a PS3 "basic", and a PS3 "deluxe", one without Bluray and one with? Is it necessary to have Bluray for the next crop of shoot-em-ups?
tryingtimes
08-05-2006, 4:01 PM
Is it necessary to have Bluray for the next crop of shoot-em-ups?
They're certainly using it as a competitive advantage in marketing material, so I'm guessing that it's likely to be just one version.
ChrisAllenFiz
08-05-2006, 4:05 PM
Sony has said that PS3 games will come on Blu-Ray only, so there won`t be two versions. What`s interesting me is how they are going to produce a BR drive that will play CDs for the PS2 backward compatability when their own BR player released in June won`t play CDs.
tryingtimes
08-05-2006, 4:10 PM
their own BR player released in June won`t play CDs.
I didn't know that - can you point us to a link?
BR player released in June won`t play CDs.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/-/-/-/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=hav_bluraydiscsub&ProductSKU=BDPS1
June ?? Target availability on or about August 15th
AVI
What`s interesting me is how they are going to produce a BR drive that will play CDs for the PS2 backward compatability when their own BR player released in June won`t play CDs.
confusing statement.
the ps2 disks are dvds arent they? the players will read those as ive read they incorporate red lasers alongside the blue lasers.
pez
WelshBluebird
08-05-2006, 5:28 PM
confusing statement.
the ps2 disks are dvds arent they? the players will read those as ive read they incorporate red lasers alongside the blue lasers.
pez
not all PS2 games are on dvd - most of the very early ones, and even still some of the newer ones, are on cd.
ChrisAllenFiz
08-05-2006, 10:25 PM
Also PS1 games are supposed to be compatible, which are on Cds. I`m just confused as to how that will work. AFAIK cds aren`t supported by blu-ray because it makes the mechanism even more expensive. So how come sony can add this to the 400 quid PS3 but not the 600 quid stand alone player?
BadAss
09-05-2006, 12:12 AM
Although this is not a requirement of the Blu-ray Disc format, it is very likely that all Blu-ray Disc products will play their DVD and CD counterpart formats. Compare this to the ability of today's DVD players to play CDs. Most companies have developed laser components and pickup units being able to read CD, DVD and BD.
spikerules
09-05-2006, 1:54 AM
seems like its going to be £410 for the 60GB version:( Thats changing euros for pounds via curreny converter, so it might be less than expected? But as it stands 600 euros = £410!
But if you just want a cheap BR player why wouldn't you pick up the 20gb model for £340?
Do you need HDMI for BR playback?
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/060509a.pdf
spikerules
09-05-2006, 6:21 AM
But if you just want a cheap BR player why wouldn't you pick up the 20gb model for £340?
Because you wont be able to use the £320 version... no HDMI!
tryingtimes
09-05-2006, 8:52 AM
I'm stunned that they're doing a version without
HDMI, WiFi, 1080p? As well as no wireless controllers!
Rumors of no movie playback on the $499 version too!
From the conference, PS3 production looks very directionless and stumbling.
I can't believe that they were using a non-game GT HD to promote it first - they constantly had to make excuses for it, and the long footage just became boring - I'm absolutely stunned!
The Wii-ripoff controller functions too - what can I say - it'll probably outsell all the others anyway :(
jon smith
09-05-2006, 9:03 AM
I'm shocked at this (even though I know I shouldn't be). Perhaps Sven is in charge at Sony too...
I'm stunned that they're doing a version without
HDMI, WiFi, 1080p? As well as no wireless controllers!
Rumors of no movie playback on the $499 version too!
From the conference, PS3 production looks very directionless and stumbling.
I can't believe that they were using a non-game GT HD to promote it first - they constantly had to make excuses for it, and the long footage just became boring - I'm absolutely stunned!
The Wii-ripoff controller functions too - what can I say - it'll probably outsell all the others anyway :(
Where did this info come from?
I suspect there are major problems getting the dual layer blu-ray format to work reliably for reasonable cost and possibly might force sony to reconsider full blu-ray compatability for the intial release date.
Could be the cut-down version is Sony's way of getting the PS3 out without waiting for the actual blu-ray video format to get ratified. Essentially the drive being little different from the blu-ray ram burners currently available.
tryingtimes
09-05-2006, 9:16 AM
Where did this info come from?
Apparently translated from this sony press release, although I can't quite see all the details
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/060509a.pdf
IGN are reporting it as fact.
ChrisAllenFiz
09-05-2006, 9:52 AM
Apparently translated from this sony press release, although I can't quite see all the details
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/060509a.pdf
IGN are reporting it as fact.
I have seen the English version of that press release, and it quite clearly states one HDMI port on the premium model, and none on the basic. Also missing is the WIFI and memory card functions from the basic package.
tryingtimes
09-05-2006, 9:57 AM
It just sounds stupid to me - exactly what they were criticising MS for doing.
Especially as these things can't be added - at least with 360, anything missing can be bought later, when needed.
I wouldn't be surprised if the public reaction to this will cause a rethink.
Mike_CA
09-05-2006, 9:58 AM
You should be able to read this one.
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/060509ae.pdf
http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/060509be.pdf
[QUOTE=Evil Engineer]Can anyone see a pattern here?
Playstation1: Launch price= £299
Playstation2: Launch price= £299
Playstation3: Launch price= £.....
Sony will stick to what they know.
Well looks like they didn't :suicide:
I'm stunned that they're doing a version without
HDMI, WiFi, 1080p? As well as no wireless controllers!
Rumors of no movie playback on the $499 version too!
From the conference, PS3 production looks very directionless and stumbling.
I can't believe that they were using a non-game GT HD to promote it first - they constantly had to make excuses for it, and the long footage just became boring - I'm absolutely stunned!
The Wii-ripoff controller functions too - what can I say - it'll probably outsell all the others anyway :(
The spec sheet show 1080p for both versions.
klacey
09-05-2006, 4:51 PM
I read on AVS, someone had timed how long it takes the blu-ray player to load a disc, can you believe it took 3 minutes. Makes hd dvds 40sec ish not sound so bad.
you can output 1080p over component although i'm not entirely convinced that a games consoles analogue output stage will make a very good job of it , however you are stuffed for blu-ray if/when they switch on the copy protection as it will only output via hdmi.
Its rare to find 1080p capable displays as it stands, ones that accept it over component are going to be even rarer I suspect.
I'm dubious about the cut own PS3 actually outputting 1080p ...they are probably just paraphrasing that the console hand handle 1080p content.
matt_p
09-05-2006, 4:56 PM
The spec sheet show 1080p for both versions.
I think 1080p is technically possible over component - but I haven't heard of any TVs that will accept 1080p over component.
You also need HDMI to allow for the copy protection that blu ray movies will have (sooner or later). Over component, your lovely 1080p movies will be downscaled to 480p :(
Sony - what have you done :eek: ??? The Blu-Ray / HD-DVD race is, if anything, way in HD-DVD's favour now. Especially if MS can get the xbox 360 HD-DVD add on at a reasonable price.
mattym
09-05-2006, 4:59 PM
im slightly confused by this, so the PS3 will play brdvd but output componant only on the basic system, and HDMI on the CarlosFandango model? how does that affect johnny punter?
im slightly confused by this, so the PS3 will play brdvd but output componant only on the basic system, and HDMI on the CarlosFandango model? how does that affect johnny punter?
It's likely that you will have issues with hi def output due to copy protection requirement on the basic system. Not just with BD but also trying to upscale standard DVD. Also the PQ is likely to be inferior over component compared to HDMI. The the lack of HDMI may also affect the sound formats that can be output. It also seems the basic system isn't upgradable at a latter stage unlike the Xbox HD DVD add-on.
AVI
colinb07958
09-05-2006, 7:32 PM
Hope this helps with prices slightly
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4752895.stm
robo989
09-05-2006, 8:05 PM
Think about this. £220 minus VAT = £187 less retailer discount (say 30%) =£144 ! That's assuming there's no other duty. How much will this cost Sony !
Dunno about you guys, but thats the most stupid comment I've read on a forum for a long time.
1. £220 is the price ALREADY without VAT, so you add on 17.5% not take it away! :eek:
2. Retailers don't do 30% discounts, infact they don't do ANY discount, look at ALL consoles released in recent years and you will see this.
Have you seen an xbox 360 premium for less than £270-ish, maybe a tenner less but no way more than that.
...Besides its been announced the PS3 will cost $499 for the cheapest version, so its all rubbish anyway.
We will pay AT LEAST £399.99 at launch.
robo989
09-05-2006, 8:08 PM
Just read the link mate...
The console will come in two versions starting at $499 in the US and 499 euros (£341) in Europe.
So add on VAT to that ( 0.175 x 341 = £60)
£400 it is then.
colinb07958
09-05-2006, 8:09 PM
I think it will be approx £350 for basic model 20GB and probably £450 for 60GB version.
robo989
09-05-2006, 8:09 PM
Looks like I'm the idiot, I misread your post :god:
didn't realise you were talking about the cost to sony.
:oops: sorry
Lawrenzini
09-05-2006, 8:15 PM
Looks like I'm the idiot, I misread your post :god:
didn't realise you were talking about the cost to sony.
:oops: sorry
It's like raaain on your wedding daaaayyy...
Dunno about you guys, but thats the most stupid comment I've read on a forum for a long time.
1. £220 is the price ALREADY without VAT, so you add on 17.5% not take it away! :eek:
2. Retailers don't do 30% discounts, infact they don't do ANY discount, look at ALL consoles released in recent years and you will see this.
Have you seen an xbox 360 premium for less than £270-ish, maybe a tenner less but no way more than that.
...Besides its been announced the PS3 will cost $499 for the cheapest version, so its all rubbish anyway.
We will pay AT LEAST £399.99 at launch.
Maybe you should try reading it in context:suicide: . The point being made is that there was no way IMO that the unit would have a UK street price of £220. Hence taking off VAT and retailer margin (30% is not discount to Joe public) to show what Sony would be left with.
AVI
Edit
Thanks - easily done !!!
Just read the link mate...
So add on VAT to that ( 0.175 x 341 = £60)
£400 it is then.
I'm pretty sure the Euro price included taxes, not sure about the US/Japan.
dsanders_sco
10-05-2006, 8:03 AM
It doesn't seem that anyone has picked up yet that the cheapest version of the console isn't planned to have HDMI/HDCP. So there will be no cheap blue-ray player. The premium version will be around £425 (according to Sony UK) and will be the only player with HDMI/HDCP.
I think Sony have shot themselves in the foot.
danvitale
10-05-2006, 8:14 AM
I agree with you. Sony are not doing themselves any favours by releasing a BluRay player without the ability to display movie playback in a way that gives it justice.
If I was them I'd seriously consider scrapping the cheaper model and lowering the premium model price to around £400.
It doesn't seem that anyone has picked up yet that the cheapest version of the console isn't planned to have HDMI/HDCP.
Lots of discussion on this both here and in the PS3/PS2 forum.
BadAss
10-05-2006, 10:51 AM
I think Sony have shot themselves in the foot.
I don't think so, Sony could sell these machines ten times over this christmas if they had enough units to go around. Sony knows it can sell the same amount at a high price then slowly drop the price as sales drop.
With two models I think Sony is hedging its bets and wants to see just how much interest there is for BD players in the real world. It wont take much for Sony to stop selling the 20g version and replace it with the 60g for the same price, it just wants to see which way sales will go.
shaithis
10-05-2006, 11:00 AM
They might also stop making the 60 gb version if sales are weak......which I think they will be.
I see the PS3 and the XBox360 releases being mirror-images of each other...
EVERYONE wanted a premium 360 not a core, the opposite will almost certainly hold true for the PS3 for at least the first year.
tryingtimes
10-05-2006, 11:17 AM
I completely disagree - I think everyone will NOT want to potentially miss out on any features and will find the extra cash. Again the early adopters will be able to afford it.
paulm187
10-05-2006, 11:22 AM
Lots of rumours that PS3 price will be announced this week, and it will be $US399
That's £220.
If that's true, it will obliterate the £500 HD-DVD players..
No HDMI in the cheap version :rotfl: Yes it really is going to obliterate the HD-DVD players. This also means forget about 1080p and if you have buy HDCP protected content forget about playing it.
With two models I think Sony is hedging its bets and wants to see just how much interest there is for BD players in the real world. It wont take much for Sony to stop selling the 20g version and replace it with the 60g for the same price, it just wants to see which way sales will go.
If the blu-ray release gets pushed back even further (I'm convinced they are having major problems with perfecting the dual layer tech) I half suspect Sony to release the cheapo PS3 initially with the more expensive fully blu-ray capable version following as and when blu-ray gets completed.
I'm convinced the blu-ray problems are what has forced Sony into creating the two versions. You could get away with a blu-ray drive that only handles single layer for the games on the PS3 and these drives would be little different from the non-video blu-ray drives currently available. If the machine is not marketed as being a blu-ray video player you can concentrate on selling a games console again.
I could understand the cost incentive of creatng two pricing options if there was more than $100 difference in price , similar to that PVR version of the PS2 that was released in Japan at more than twice the price of the PS2 but for $100 difference you might as well create one machine and sell it for $50 less than the top priced one. Any significant profit loss as a result is going to be compensated for by the streamlined market and less alienated , confused customers.
Sony are not taking this approach because they want to , its because they have to release this way to safeguard the PS3 release from any further complications arising from blu-ray. That's my theory anyway.
tryingtimes
10-05-2006, 11:25 AM
You could be right - When's the first BR player expected then - is it now September?
shaithis
10-05-2006, 11:28 AM
I completely disagree - I think everyone will NOT want to potentially miss out on any features and will find the extra cash. Again the early adopters will be able to afford it.
The way I see it is that MOST Playstation owners will be either fairly young or clueless about HD.
Neither of these groups of people will see the neccessity to buy the more expensive version.
Of course its all pure speculation but I will be very surprised if the expensive model comes anywhere near the cheaper model in sales.
They might also stop making the 60 gb version if sales are weak......which I think they will be.
I see the PS3 and the XBox360 releases being mirror-images of each other...
EVERYONE wanted a premium 360 not a core, the opposite will almost certainly hold true for the PS3 for at least the first year.
Totally disagree, the majority will want the Premium bundle, and for the 20-30 somethings that will be early adopters £400 is reasonable for the product on offer.
You'll not be able to get your hands on a PS3 for the first 6 months.
Also just read an interview with Harrison that says the functionality of both versions will be identicale, so who knows.
Also just read an interview with Harrison that says the functionality of both versions will be identicale, so who knows.
Apart from the lack of hdmi of course .
And 40Gb of hd space.
And the wireless.
And the memory card.
Obviously has a strange concept of "identical functionality".
Which begs the question...if they are identical why bother with two versions in the first place:rolleyes:
tryingtimes
11-05-2006, 1:57 PM
yes - 40GB doesn't cost $100.
He probably means in terms of gameplay. Unless they've already done a u-turn.
Apart from the lack of hdmi of course .
And 40Gb of hd space.
And the wireless.
And the memory card.
Obviously has a strange concept of "identical functionality".
Which begs the question...if they are identical why bother with two versions in the first place:rolleyes:
Well...............it is a budget model, hardly going to be an identical piece of kit is it!
Point is, you want to play PS3 games, either will do, go online, same thing, BR playback, let's wait and see.
Honestly, I don't know what people expected.
I read earlier in this thread that 'most' people expected a £299 price tag, well, from what I recall, 1 out of 10 expected £299, the majority £399, and the sceptics £500+.
Why two then?
I'll tell you why because blu-ray is having problems , Sony wasn't prepared to risk further delaying the release of the PS3 but couldn't back out from under the blu-ray banner after all the hype they laid out concerning the PS3 as a cheap blu-ray platform. So they decide to create two models , one that handles blu-ray video one that doesn't and uses a non-dual layer capable drive in the cheapo.
They don't want to admit that this is the reason for the cheapo model so they stick an extra 40gb on the premium model to seemingly give it a bit more justification for premium status and pull the wireless and hdmi from the cheapo model as lets face it if the blu-ray drive isn't going to be much cop as a player you don't need the hdmi and the wireless isn''t a necessity anyway and you don't need to compete with the Xbox360 on these terms as you can always use a USB solution for wireless at a later date , and its still got bluetooth.
You know you can now release the cheapo model without waiting for blu-ray video to sort itself out without admitting that that's the reason for the two tiered price structure and without letting on that blu-ray still has some problems to overcome.
That's my theory.
WelshBluebird
11-05-2006, 3:42 PM
Why two then?
I'll tell you why because blu-ray is having problems , Sony wasn't prepared to risk further delaying the release of the PS3 but couldn't back out from under the blu-ray banner after all the hype they laid out concerning the PS3 as a cheap blu-ray platform. So they decide to create two models , one that handles blu-ray video one that doesn't and uses a non-dual layer capable drive in the cheapo.
They don't want to admit that this is the reason for the cheapo model so they stick an extra 40gb on the premium model to seemingly give it a bit more justification for premium status and pull the wireless and hdmi from the cheapo model as lets face it if the blu-ray drive isn't going to be much cop as a player you don't need the hdmi and the wireless isn''t a necessity anyway and you don't need to compete with the Xbox360 on these terms as you can always use a USB solution for wireless at a later date , and its still got bluetooth.
You know you can now release the cheapo model without waiting for blu-ray video to sort itself out without admitting that that's the reason for the two tiered price structure and without letting on that blu-ray still has some problems to overcome.
That's my theory.
:confused:
you do know the cheaper version (without HDMI) will still be able to playback Bluray Video? Just not at full resolution. (and that depends on how long it takes for ICT to be used)
And tbh, even though the PS2 was a crap DVD player, you can't really say what the PS3's Bluray playback is gonna be like until you see it. It may well be crap, but as far as you (or any of us) know, it may not be crap.
Granted - its hard to see why sony would inlcude brilliant BR playback in something which is much cheaper than their own (or the other) bluray players, but still, we can't really say, until we are shown.
crystalgipsy
11-05-2006, 4:07 PM
As a matter of interest what TV's can take 1080p via component if there is any. I know component is capable of doing it but it seems most have only uptp 1080i like most HDMI.
shaithis
11-05-2006, 4:10 PM
I think most HD Ready sets will accept 1080p.
:confused:
you do know the cheaper version (without HDMI) will still be able to playback Bluray Video? Just not at full resolution. (and that depends on how long it takes for ICT to be used)
.
ICT 2011 apparently, even two years down the line combi players will be sub £200.
Point me to where it categorically confirms the cheapo PS3 will play blu-ray video.
Point me to where it says categorically that ICT will not be used until 2011.
crystalgipsy
11-05-2006, 4:32 PM
I think most HD Ready sets will accept 1080p.
Actually they dont all accept 1080p, athe ones that do tend to via HDMI that is whay I am asking which ones can take 1080p via component as it is a rarer thing.
Its probably all academic anyway as most PS3 games so far are only 720p.
matt_p
11-05-2006, 4:35 PM
you do know the cheaper version (without HDMI) will still be able to playback Bluray Video? Just not at full resolution.
So why bother? Why buy the blu-ray disc at £20 when you can buy the dvd at £12 (or less)? They'll both be displayed at the same resolution, so the pic difference would be negligible at best.
The whole point of blu-ray (and HD-DVD) is the added resolution.
Point me to where it categorically confirms the cheapo PS3 will play blu-ray video.
Point me to where it says categorically that ICT will not be used until 2011.
Point me to where it says the 360 HD-DVD drive will have an HDMI port.
pez
Point me to where it says the 360 HD-DVD drive will have an HDMI port.
pez
Sorry you misunderstand if you want a fanboy tit for tat rant go somewhere else , we are discussing the PS3.
the low cost model is a non HDMI enabled high definition player, as is the 360 and its hd-dvd add on.
both will output hidef signals over component, so wheres the issue?
pez
It has yet to be confirmed whether or not the xbox360 hd-dvd add on will support hdmi in any way : either from the unit itself or via an hdmi cable on the 360 itself. All we've seen are mockups
It has been confirmed that the cheapo PS3 does not have hdmi whilst the premium model does.
So far this thread has not dissolved into a fanboy rant from afficienados from either camp so let's try to keep it that way and stick to the known facts.
What I want to know is what sort of playback functionality the cheap PS3 offers if any as I suspectthat blu-ray is having trouble getting dual layer to work and the cheapo PS3 might have a single layer only drive similar to the blu-ray drives currently on the market. As you don't need dual layer for game discs and it stops the PS3 release being at the mercy of blu-ray video finalisation.
tryingtimes
11-05-2006, 5:10 PM
So are you suggesting that the top model will not be available at launch?
Or just that the main difference in price comes from the difference in the BR drives?
Nic Rhodes
11-05-2006, 5:12 PM
VERY very few devices can even accept 1080p though a few more are 1080p native!!
richard plumb
11-05-2006, 5:13 PM
Point me to where it categorically confirms the cheapo PS3 will play blu-ray video.
Point me to where it says categorically that ICT will not be used until 2011.
point me to where it says the cheapo player will *not * play bluray video. You may be right but until they say otherwise we have to assume identical functionality.
The only way your hypothesis would make sense is if the premium pack isn't available until later on, and sony remove video playback from the cheapo one. And I haven't seen any evidence of that
as for ICT?
sony, universal, paramount, disney, 20th century fox have no plans to use ICT (http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/13251)
ICT illegal in Japan until 2011 (http://tomshardware.co.uk/2005/12/19/aacs_10_negotiations_make_progress/page2.html)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4760553.stm
I read that as HD over component for blu ray movies.
Nic Rhodes
11-05-2006, 5:56 PM
The Sony price seems to be a bit different form £220!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4760553.stm
I read that as HD over component for blu ray movies.
I see zero mention of blu-ray capabilities in that article. Almost carefully , no mention of blu-ray.
As I've said everything I've mentioned is just a theory but certain things stand.
No-one has seen dual layer blu-ray and there have been rumours that this was proving problematic. And I stress rumours.
Why are Sony not singing the praises of the cheapo PS3 as being perfectly adequate for blu-ray? Considering all the hype it was getting regarding this feature a year ago.
Why the difference in hdmi ? There are sub 50quid players with hdmi how much of a saving can it represent to Sony. Surely pulling out the dac for the analogue stage and leaving the hdmi would have been more of a saving if they were that desperate to cost cut.
What does an extra 40gb get you from a media centre point of view....zip...but its cheap to highlight as justification for the higher priced version.
What does sony gain from being able to put out a version of the PS3 that doesn't necessarily rely on being compatable with blu-ray video discs prior to its release?
And if you wanted to disguise those intentions how do you do it ? Claim to be offering the consumer a choice . Claim to be saving them money.
Considering the loss that the PS3 will be sold at why not just put out one machine ( the premium ) and split the difference in cost (put it out for $50 less) and not have to worry about two production lines and the associated costs. Unless of course said machine would have to rely on as yet unfinalised and non-working technology.
And bear in mind that admitting blu-ray was having problems would potentially prove catastrophic considering the rival format is already available.
Supposition ? Absolutely.
Find me bona fide clarification that the cheapo model PS3 will play blu-ray video discs. All discs that don't engage ICT of course.
So are you suggesting that the top model will not be available at launch?
Or just that the main difference in price comes from the difference in the BR drives?
If they don't get dual layer blu-ray functional to ensure production before the release date ...yes I believe the premium will not be available.
Even if they manage it in due course you might well find the premium demands a premium price and is very thin on the ground. The cheapo version being sony wanting to get their next console in the shops regardless without furtehr delay from blu-ray and associated errosion of its standing in the marketplace by microsoft and nintendo.
ok, lets stick to the known facts.
theres a bluray drive in the non hdmi equipped ps3.
isnt that all we know at present?
pez
jon smith
12-05-2006, 7:04 AM
Any chance of getting the title changed now we know the price?
ok, lets stick to the known facts.
theres a bluray drive in the non hdmi equipped ps3.
isnt that all we know at present?
pez
Indeed but that doesn't necessarily mean it will play blu-ray video discs.
mgillespie
12-05-2006, 8:44 AM
Any chance of getting the title changed now we know the price?
I have edited my original post, fro £220 to £270. But only the body text has changed, not the topic. Perhaps a Admin has to do this. If they want to, by al means modify it to read £270. (the current exchange rate of $499).
OK, so I may have been off by £50, in my original post, and the $499 model may only do component output from Blu-Ray, but both models represent awesome value for money.
Personally, I'm gonna get the real deal, $599 (£320) model.
These prices are of course, assuming that the EU does not slap import taxes and the like ontop.
Even if the top end model turns out to be £399 after fake conversion rates and taxes, it still a great buy... Putting my name down as soon as I find somewhere reputable taking orders...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4760553.stm
I read that as HD over component for blu ray movies.
not so sure.
it says in one bit:
"Some people might be interested in the PS3 primarily and exclusively as a games system, whereas other users might look at it as a multimedia hub in the home, which is games and music and movies and other digital content."
does that mean if your only gonna play games buy the cheap one if you want games and music and movies buy the expensive one?
i hope not.:thumbsdow
looking at the quote by Phil Harrison why does he use the words 'primarily' as in 'mostly used for' implying that it will play the films etc,but then (reading between the lines abit)say if you are gonna use it for that buy the expensive version.
wish they would just say!!
A bit of clarity would be a wonderful thing, but then what would we all talk about.
gavan
12-05-2006, 10:51 AM
not so sure.
it says in one bit:
"Some people might be interested in the PS3 primarily and exclusively as a games system, whereas other users might look at it as a multimedia hub in the home, which is games and music and movies and other digital content."
does that mean if your only gonna play games buy the cheap one if you want games and music and movies buy the expensive one?
i hope not.:thumbsdow
I reckon they're trying not to harm the market for expensive dedicated Blu-ray players whilst still making an affordable console for the mass market.
By cutting out HDMI on the 'cheap' PS3, they make it significantly less attractive as a BD player to the home cinema 'early adopter' market as well as saving a bit of cash on the manufacturing side.
Gav
Playstation is worth more to sony than just about any other facet of the company. I can't see them deliberately knobbling its capabilities on the off chance people would pay another measly 100bucks for the unhobbled version or fork out over a grand for a standalone player instead; thats a different market for a start. They might as well have put out an enabling remote blu-ray playback pack like microsoft did for the original xbox if they just wanted to squeaze a bit more money out of the punter.
The blu-ray capability was Sony's ace in the hole to flog more consoles AND get control over the next mainstream video format ( something they have never had). Why blow all that away for $100 dollars a unit and increased production complexity .
Unless they had no choice as delays in functional blu-ray video kept jeapordising the PS3 release.
slinkywonka
12-05-2006, 6:57 PM
http://www.ps3news.ca/05102006/09/ps3_bummer_499_model_missing_features
:rolleyes:
X3ELS
13-05-2006, 11:15 AM
Both versions of PS3 will play bluray video- the spec is identical just the "method of extracting the video" is different according to Sony.
JohnWH
13-05-2006, 11:43 AM
Where did you read/hear that? Its a very strange statement that could lead to the concluesion that the cheaper model is missing support for the newer codecs...
John.
X3ELS
13-05-2006, 11:45 AM
I have a very good contact who is a top level games producer, he is at E3 and i sent him an email asking him to ask the guys he is meeting with about PS3, that is the reply i got from him.:)
JohnWH
13-05-2006, 1:28 PM
Well it could explain why they're encoding all teh initial movies in MPEG2 i.e. the lower priced PS3 doesn't support any of the other codecs! Very sad if this is the case.
John.
Sojurn
13-05-2006, 3:11 PM
Both versions of PS3 will play bluray video- the spec is identical just the "method of extracting the video" is different according to Sony.
Aye that was said by Phil Harrison, And later on that same day a superior SONY executive clarfied that the cheap PS3 does not support HDMI.
http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=16942
basically the cheap PS3 you can watch blu-ray movies up to 1080i, but not 1080p, Providing that the industry doesn't enforce that copy protection which dictates HDMI for all HD.
I think if you were getting PS3 for the blu-ray movie factor, you would be wise to get the HDMI version. The cheaper PS3 is for the people who want a games console.
WelshBluebird
13-05-2006, 3:33 PM
Aye that was said by Phil Harrison, And later on that same day a superior SONY executive clarfied that the cheap PS3 does not support HDMI.
http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=16942
basically the cheap PS3 you can watch blu-ray movies up to 1080i, but not 1080p, Providing that the industry doesn't enforce that copy protection which dictates HDMI for all HD.
I think if you were getting PS3 for the blu-ray movie factor, you would be wise to get the HDMI version. The cheaper PS3 is for the people who want a games console.
you CAN get 1080p over component. So until the stuidos decide to use ICT, then you will be able to view bluray movies at 1080p using the cheaper PS3 over component.
from wikipedia (the only source I can find atm)
Component video is capable of producing signals such as 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p
There has still been no formal declaration of the PS3 cheapo's abilities to handle dual layer blu-ray video. All comments from sony executives have so far carefully avoided specific mention of the blu-ray capabilities of the cheaper PS3.
All they do is wax lyrical about the lack of hdmi not being a problem (although honestly it will be a problem if ICT starts getting used so I can't understand why they can categorically say that). They are also rather blaise about suggesting that people who want the blu-ray capability opt for the expensive version.
I'm very suspicous of the on-going delays to blu-ray's launch , I'm very suspicious as to the decision to release two models of the PS3.
richard plumb
13-05-2006, 6:17 PM
latest I heard from gamestation today (I preordered my PS3 today), was that they were only getting the 60GB version for the UK, no cheaper ones. Probably ****** to get you to preorder the expensive version, but who knows?
dabots
13-05-2006, 7:37 PM
Firstly, the mass public wont go out and buy a PS3 without needing/wanting games.
If it's the cheapest way of watching Blu-Ray then surely they will regardless of the picture quality or their interest in games? £20-£30 DVD players sell well today based on the fact that they're the cheapest players available.
If it's the cheapest way of watching Blu-Ray then surely they will regardless of the picture quality or their interest in games? £20-£30 DVD players sell well today based on the fact that they're the cheapest players available.
If they ain't interested in PQ or games why would they spend £300+ to watch movies they can see on a £20-£30 DVD player and that assumes they have a HD compatible display :suicide: £20-£30 DVD players sell because they are very, very cheap.
AVI
I agree, the sole reason for Blu ray, HD in general is the best PQ. If that is not your driver, why bother, when you can get a perfectly good DVD from Tescos for £25. My neighbour has just done that, and actually, on her 20" LG LCD, a 4:3 one, it makes naff all difference.
richard plumb
13-05-2006, 10:10 PM
Why is Bluray the search for the ultimate picture quality?
just as some people will have cheap HD ready sets because they are cheap, they may want to buy a cheap HD player. As long as it looks better than DVD (and its bound to) they'll be happy
lets not keep this thing for videophiles only. Every manufacturer in Europe is pushing HD ready really hard. they are pulling out of CRT manufacturing and selling (nice side effect that it keeps average selling prices up)
So they'll be telling everyone of the benefits of HD, and the general public will be told they'll need bluray/HDDVD to take advantage of their new HD ready set
DanielTS
13-05-2006, 10:22 PM
you CAN get 1080p over component. So until the stuidos decide to use ICT, then you will be able to view bluray movies at 1080p using the cheaper PS3 over component.
from wikipedia (the only source I can find atm)
AACS compliant player (HD DVD/Blu-ray) cannot output 1080p over component :
http://www.aacsla.com/support/
AACS Interim Adopter Agreement - Table A1 :
AACS Authorized Analog Outputs :
. 480i YUV, YPbPr or Y,R-Y,B-Y component
. 480p YUV, YPbPr or Y,R-Y,B-Y component
. 576i Component YUV, YPbPr and Y,RY,B-Y
. 576p YUV, YPbPr or Y,R-Y,B-Y component
. 720p YUV, YPbPr or Y,R-Y,B-Y component
. 1080i YUV, YPbPr or Y,R-Y,B-Y component
I can't see joe public buying into HD until the industry sorts itself out. Two formats...how childish...hopefully one of the two will win...big concern that it might only be bought by us techno whores and both fail....like SACD & DVD-A.
DVD was/is a success due to there being one format, providing better quality picture and compatibility with any type of tv. HD = two formats, better picture (if you're tv's big enough to see the difference and can wire it up properly) and has very limited compatibility. I really do want one of them to succeed....but it doesn't look good to me.
I won't buy a PS3 to watch blue-ray movies...can't see my neighbours who bought a PS2 for it's dvd playing ability going out and spending £400 on a PS3 for blue-ray either.
Why is Bluray the search for the ultimate picture quality?
just as some people will have cheap HD ready sets because they are cheap, they may want to buy a cheap HD player. As long as it looks better than DVD (and its bound to) they'll be happy
lets not keep this thing for videophiles only. Every manufacturer in Europe is pushing HD ready really hard. they are pulling out of CRT manufacturing and selling (nice side effect that it keeps average selling prices up)
So they'll be telling everyone of the benefits of HD, and the general public will be told they'll need bluray/HDDVD to take advantage of their new HD ready set
So are you saying PS3 will be the answer ?
AVI
m1ket
14-05-2006, 12:04 AM
I don't see how the cost of DVD players back in 2000 had any bearing on the PS2 launch price and I don't see how the cost of stand alone Bluray players will have any effect on Sony's present day strategy.
do you get it now ...:rolleyes:
latest I heard from gamestation today (I preordered my PS3 today), was that they were only getting the 60GB version for the UK, no cheaper ones. Probably ****** to get you to preorder the expensive version, but who knows?
Did you just put down a deposit (if so how much), or did you have to pay the full (expected) price?
Jimbo71
14-05-2006, 8:23 AM
Did you just put down a deposit (if so how much), or did you have to pay the full (expected) price?
Gamestation are asking for a £20 deposit if you go to one of their local stores. If you pre-order from their website, you will not have to pay anything until they send out the PS3.
Pre-ordering from your local Gamestation store may be the best option if you want one on launch day as I can imagine the website has taken 100's of pre-orders by now. :)
Gamestation are asking for a £20 deposit if you go to one of their local stores. If you pre-order from their website, you will not have to pay anything until they send out the PS3.
Pre-ordering from your local Gamestation store may be the best option if you want one on launch day as I can imagine the website has taken 100's of pre-orders by now. :)
I'll get down there this morning. :smashin:
Cheers.
I just rang my local one who said they weren;t taking pre orders until Monday....
He did confirm it would be £20.00 though. :thumbsup:
Which one did you pre order from (& when) richardplumb?
Jimbo71
14-05-2006, 8:49 AM
I just rang my local one who said they weren;t taking pre orders until Monday....
He did confirm it would be £20.00 though. :thumbsup:
Which one did you pre order from (& when) richardplumb?
Hi m8,
I have preordered from both DVD.co.uk, and Gamestation - both online. I got my pre-orders in on Thursday morning for DVD.co.uk and Friday morning for Gamestation. DVD.co.uk have already confirmed that I am the 18th customer on their pre-order list :thumbsup: I've asked Gamestation the same question, but they have not got back to me yet.
I did phone my local Gamestation branch in Swindon on Friday, and they also told be that there were no pre-orders untill Monday :thumbsdow
I know a couple of people on this forum who were told the same thing, but were advised that they were put on 'the list' in the meantime, until they pay their £20 tomorrow morning.
Might be worth popping down today and trying to get put on the list - and then just pay them the deposit tomorrow.
Also keep an eye on Play.com - I'm sure they will be taking pre-orders soon.
:)
Hi m8,
I have preordered from both DVD.co.uk, and Gamestation - both online. I got my pre-orders in on Thursday morning for DVD.co.uk and Friday morning for Gamestation. DVD.co.uk have already confirmed that I am the 18th customer on their pre-order list :thumbsup: I've asked Gamestation the same question, but they have not got back to me yet.
I did phone my local Gamestation branch in Swindon on Friday, and they also told be that there were no pre-orders untill Monday :thumbsdow
I know a couple of people on this forum who were told the same thing, but were advised that they were put on 'the list' in the meantime, until they pay their £20 tomorrow morning.
Might be worth popping down today and trying to get put on the list - and then just pay them the deposit tomorrow.
Also keep an eye on Play.com - I'm sure they will be taking pre-orders soon.
:)
Nice one, thanks for that. :thumbsup:
I see that both Gamestation & DVD.co.uk are asking for the full asking price on their websites.... :thumbsdow
Did you hand over £1000.000??? :eek: :eek: :eek:
Jimbo71
14-05-2006, 9:06 AM
Nice one, thanks for that. :thumbsup:
I see that both Gamestation & DVD.co.uk are asking for the full asking price on their websites.... :thumbsdow
Did you hand over £1000.000??? :eek: :eek: :eek:
nope, both sites will not charge you a penny until the PS3 is despatched :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
nope, both sites will not charge you a penny until the PS3 is despatched :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Nice one, thanks. :thumbsup:
What about this "1 per household" thing though?
Jimbo71
14-05-2006, 9:17 AM
Nice one, thanks. :thumbsup:
What about this "1 per household" thing though?
Yep, I've heard about that too. I have placed one order with my home address (Gamestation), and another with my parents address (DVD.co.uk). As luck would have it, my credit card has always been registered at my parents address (never got around to changing my address when I moved out years ago:eek: ), and I used my debit card for Gamestation - thus meaning that my preorders went through with 2 different addresses (without having to use a 'ship to different address' option). :smashin:
gandley
14-05-2006, 10:17 PM
PS3 can do up to 1080i over component for blu-ray movies max (due to AACS), and it will do 1080p for games if thats ever happens down the road.
(2+yrs according to sony) Also how good will the quality of the analog stage be? If they have cut costs, i doubt good quality components will be there. At least HDMI tames the need for quality dacs etc.
ICT is estimated to get going in two years OR AT A POINT WHEN PIRACY IS DEEMED AT AN UNACCEPTABLE LEVEL, problem is Warner Bros insist some of there more valuble 'IP' may well have ICT from the get go.
No doubt Sonys hands were forced due to the Shortage of HDMI chips and there just wont be enough, but it does cut down on the licensing costs. more so as you have to pay more for multiple HDMI ports.
The cheaper PS3 just acts as a stop gap until blu-ray players are cheap enough, or is usefull to those who dont give a dam about PS3 as a movie machine.
Some no doubt will accidently buy the wrong machine, but that happens.
Sony are making a bit of a pigs ear of this, but the issues with Blu-ray production are starting to filter out. Did anyone notice the articules going around that the GT HD tech demo was actually powered by a PC....dam and so many moaned at microsoft for doing a similar thing.
I still think PS3 will sale well though its not going to be a cheap entry to getting into Blu-ray movies. In fact one USA site has the sony BD player down as £799 to the UK deliverd (movityme IIRC so no extra charges from them). so £424 or £799 for a full fleded player??
the only question left is HOW WELL DOES THE PS3 PLAY BACK BLU-RAY MOVIES????
And as it has not been demoed yet, its either not ready or not great
BadAss
15-05-2006, 6:24 AM
Well put Gandley.:thumbsup:
Well, ICT hangs over us like the sword of Damocles, but all except Warner have said 'not yet', the YET bit being 'for the forseeable future'. Would warner go it alone? There is a huge installed base of HDTVs with no HDCP enabled port, up until 2 yrs ago, the XDE Pioneer was pretty much the only one in europe that meets the now HD ready standard. Implementing the ICT would be commercial suicide in my view. This is all particularly true in USA. I suppose they could single out Europe for the treatment, but would we all not just buy US discs then? After all, HD takes away the quality difference. I have not bought many R1 DVDs cos they look ghastly compared to most PAL versions, but once this is removed, surely the nicest package, ie extras, cost and ICT will govern where we purchase?
richard plumb
15-05-2006, 4:38 PM
I just rang my local one who said they weren;t taking pre orders until Monday....
He did confirm it would be £20.00 though. :thumbsup:
Which one did you pre order from (& when) richardplumb?
windsor Gamestation.
I put my name down on their pre-preorder list a few months back. They rang me on Saturday morning to say that open preorders in store would start next week, but those who had put their name down could come in from that Saturday.
gandley
16-05-2006, 12:46 AM
Well, ICT hangs over us like the sword of Damocles, but all except Warner have said 'not yet', the YET bit being 'for the forseeable future'. Would warner go it alone? There is a huge installed base of HDTVs with no HDCP enabled port, up until 2 yrs ago, the XDE Pioneer was pretty much the only one in europe that meets the now HD ready standard. Implementing the ICT would be commercial suicide in my view. This is all particularly true in USA. I suppose they could single out Europe for the treatment, but would we all not just buy US discs then? After all, HD takes away the quality difference. I have not bought many R1 DVDs cos they look ghastly compared to most PAL versions, but once this is removed, surely the nicest package, ie extras, cost and ICT will govern where we purchase?
Well in japan they cant force ICT until i think 2012 (there about anyway) as the law there forbids it, so i can kinda see why sony has no problems releasing a component only system there at this time. 2012 will probly see the PS4 no doubt.
I think ICT will be kicked-in in europe and north america when HDMI has attained over 50% market presence or as and when piracy is too wide spread.
Now that the XBOX360 add on has been confirmed as not having HDMI as well i think the studios may be a bit miffed at sony and microsoft.
Infact both Disney and Fox are evidently well miffed with sony for not including HDMI on the cheaper PS3 because of what this may mean for the longer term issues of ICT (even though they support no ICT at this time).
There are some interesting posts on AVS that suggest somthing bigger may be happening behind closed doors about the current state of ICT and even HDMI etc. There could be some big surprises ahead. Maybe....
Tejstar
16-05-2006, 11:39 AM
There are some interesting posts on AVS that suggest somthing bigger may be happening behind closed doors about the current state of ICT and even HDMI etc. There could be some big surprises ahead. Maybe....
Like what? Are they thinking of scrapping it?
richard plumb
16-05-2006, 1:26 PM
I think ICT will be kicked-in in europe and north america when HDMI has attained over 50% market presence or as and when piracy is too wide spread
I don't see how that will work. The longer they don't use ICT, the more people will have HDDVD/bluray using component and the less likely it is that they can just foist it on consumers.
Like what? Are they thinking of scrapping it?
It was never a good idea to start with. Best thing they could do is stop spending money on daft copy protection and sell the discs for less, put the pirates out of business. HDPC is looking more and more out on it's own, and the HDMI interface has not yet lived up to expectations. DVI did what it said on the tin from the off, HDMI is still being revised, and still not up to the job we'd all like it to do. And as Richard says, the longer they leave it, the harder it becomes to suddenly switch it all on, leaving a huge installed customer base with useless equipment.