PAL Speed-up

[CrispyXUK]

So, when HD/BD is released over here will they be 50hz like previous formats? or will they leave them at 60hz?

[NicolasB]

So, when HD/BD is released over here will they be 50hz like previous formats? or will they leave them at 60hz?50.

[CrispyXUK]

Oh ***, looks like I'm importing all my discs this time, what a stupid idea

[gareth_lewis2]

Depends. 720p was and still is in international terms regarded as being in the 60hz domain. ONLY in the UK are manufacturers allowed to offer 50hz. So like I said. It depends. All decent LCD panels, not the cheap as chips variety will offer 720p at 60hz. So if you start seeing lots of BD and HDDVD discs at 50hz you can thank everyone who shops at Tescos and Sainsburys.

[Rob.Screene]

One thing to note is that US (60Hz) films have 3-2 pulldown judder. 50Hz film releases don't.

I know you can get rid of it with a good HD video processor that can do 1080i film detection and 48 or 72Hz film locked output, but they are fairly rare.

The 50Hz releases expected here (with 4% speed-up) will just need the normal 2-2 weave to get to 25fps, therefore no judder even on modest displays.

I really noticed the difference going from watching the Lost PAL (50Hz) DVD's to some episodes off HDTV 720p/60, for me the 3-2 repetition judder really detracts from the smooth experience of 24fps or 25fps playback.

Rob.

[richard plumb]

Now that we won't have PAL/NTSC, is it possible that some US consumers may prefer European players with 25/50Hz output to get a smoother playback?

Or do you think displays and sources will quickly adjust to demand and have some kind of 24/48/72Hz compatibility?

[Rob.Screene]

HQV motion compensated de-interlacing and 24/48/72Hz film lock on mid-range players, ooh the thought of that makes me giddy! Maybe two years time?

Although 4% audio speedup bugs me, 3-2 pulldown judder bugs me more. I don't see many us buyers importing though, as it probably triples the local cost with international shipping.

I remember wondering why my PAL Laserdiscs looked fluid during scene pans where the US NTSC imports didn't.

Rob.

[NicolasB]

Now that we won't have PAL/NTSC, is it possible that some US consumers may prefer European players with 25/50Hz output to get a smoother playback?

Or do you think displays and sources will quickly adjust to demand and have some kind of 24/48/72Hz compatibility?There's no question that 24/28/72 Hz displays with a deinterlacer capable of correct 3:2 pulldown is the best way to go, but how long it will be before it is common for displays to be able to do this is anybody's guess. There will be less demand for it in the UK where most material is 50Hz, so we'll probably get it later than everyone else.

[richard plumb]

do you think there might be demand in the US to get 50Hz capable sets like we have?

[Rob.Screene]

I bet many US sets are already 50Hz capable. I think these are pretty much global products, no?

Rob.

[lunddal]

There's no question that 24/28/72 Hz displays with a deinterlacer capable of correct 3:2 pulldown is the best way to go, but how long it will be before it is common for displays to be able to do this is anybody's guess.

Isn't this what Pioneer's PureCinema is all about?

[Quickbeam]

I don't think anyone knows for sure how European discs will be encoded. Broadcast HD is 50Hz because it makes sense to use SD compatible frame/field rates. The HD Ready standard supports 50 and 60Hz, so there is no technical reason to encode 24fps features at 25fps on European discs. (There are actually a few 60Hz UK region 2 DVDs, such as Sex and the City Season 1.)

It goes without saying that however they are encoded, it won't please everyone. My own preference is for 24p on the disc, but I'm probably in the minority here.

[CrispyXUK]

It amazes me that they didn't think that 24/48 playback should be the standard to be honest, are there any DVD players that output 24 fps? I can do it with my HTPC and it works lovely

[NicolasB]

The HD Ready standard supports 50 and 60Hz, so there is no technical reason to encode 24fps features at 25fps on European discs. :rotfl:

The several million TV sets that aren't "HD Ready" are the reason. BluRay and HD-DVD are trying to become the standard for all discs, not merely high-definition. And the average punter doesn't understand anything about HD anyway. He wants to be able to play BluRay movies on his PS3 and plug it into a regular television to do it. Unless the PS3 (and all other hi-def players) are capable of producing downscaled output that displays happily on a standard-definition TV, it will be a PR disaster.

[Quickbeam]

Let me take your :rotfl: and raise you a further :suicide: .

There are plenty of non-HD Ready TVs in the UK - and many of them only accept 60Hz HD signals! As for the PS3 and standard def output, one word: PAL60. The PS2 does it, so why not the PS3?

I really don't want to start a flame war on this because it is not worth arguing about. European discs probably will be 25fps, not for the reasons you stated, but because 50Hz is the broadcast TV standard and because some people may complain that the blue laser version of their favourite US TV show is somehow different from the broadcast version. I don't think it's the right decision, but it's the likely one.

[shaithis]

The problem with using PAL60 is playing a disc that was designed for 25/50 operation will look like crap.

[Quickbeam]

The problem with using PAL60 is playing a disc that was designed for 25/50 operation will look like crap.

Yes - but no one was suggesting doing this.

Another point with regard to 60Hz HD is that the XBox 360's HDTV output is 60Hz only. Furthermore, while some games have a 50Hz SD output some are PAL60 only. What do you have to say to that, NicholasB? Is the XBox 360 irrelevant? Damn, I said I didn't want to start a flame and here I am contributing to one.:rolleyes:

None of this particularly relevant to the encoded frame rate on the discs anyway. There are plenty of people who insist that 25fps is far superior to 24fps with 3:2 pulldown, and the content providers for European discs may well agree. I will be surprised as anyone if 24p becomes the European standard.

[Krobar]

Speedup and the chipmunk effect really p*sses me off. I cant see any judder outputting NTSC or PAL at 60Hz on my Lumagen, alot of projectors convert everything to 60Hz anyway. The most important thing is storing Film and Video in its original format be that 24fps/25/50hz/60hz, you cant properly fix things if the disc has been messed up bit video processing will get better and better and people will appreciate having no speedup or picture issues in the long run.