PS3 vs HD player now

[bluesilver]

would it be best to wait for the PS3 or get a HD player now?

[shaithis]

lol the million dollar question.

I am sure there are a lot of execs in some of the worlds top electronic manufacturers who would also like to know ;)

[Crisp_Rapper]

judging by the dvd playback of the ps2 i'd avoid the ps3 for watching blu ray movies.

they could astound the world though, but i doubt it.

[T800]

Get one now, sell it on Ebay if the PS3 is better.

[SuperSaiyan4]

Didnt know you could get a HD-DVD player I know you can get a blu-ray one which is around $1000 isnt it??

[Dutch]

No Blu-ray players are out until May. Two Toshiba HD DVD players have been released - only in Japan so far.

Steve

[Tojal City]

My opinion? Just wait. It will be cheaper, there will be multi-drive players (Blue Ray and HD-DVD) or a clear winner, and you will not take risk of having an obsolete player.

[John Clark]

You might not even see Blu-ray players until late june or July, since Samsung delayed their player.

[mgillespie]

Wait for PS3, it's gonna be the mutts nuts, and be half the cost of dedicated Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players for some time to come, with the bonus of being a state of the art entertainment centre, games console.

[matt_p]

Wait for PS3, it's gonna be the mutts nuts, and be half the cost of dedicated Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players for some time to come, with the bonus of being a state of the art entertainment centre, games console.

Well the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player is being launched in USA at $499 this month, and that equates to about £285. You reckon the PS3 will come out at £140? ;)

[BadAss]

I'm getting the PS3 for my six year old for Christmas so I'll wait to see what the BD quality is like before I spend anymore money. If the PS3 playback is good then I'll buy another PS3 for GT5 and BD for my PJ.:smashin:

[BadAss]

Well the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player is being launched in USA at $499 this month, and that equates to about £285. You reckon the PS3 will come out at £140? ;)

I'll be mighty suprised if the Tosiba HD-DVD player is any less than £400.

[matt_p]

I'll be mighty suprised if the Tosiba HD-DVD player is any less than £400.

I think that Toshiba will be extra keen to get as much out of their time/cost advantage over blu-ray as they can and will place the price closer to £300 in the UK.

Time will tell!

[SAH]

Well the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player is being launched in USA at $499 this month, and that equates to about £285. You reckon the PS3 will come out at £140? ;)


So is there actually a date for HD-DVD/Blu-Ray to be launched in the UK?

Have any UK retailers started taking pre-orders/listing HD-DVD/Blu-Ray titles?

[Drew2]

No Blu-ray players are out until May. Two Toshiba HD DVD players have been released - only in Japan so far.

Steve

Blu-ray players have been out in Japan for over 4yrs - this isn't new technology!
Why do people think the PS3 will be a poor BR player when Sony have been developing them for the past 5yrs, HD only came into existence early last year.
Panasonic and Sharp have also been producing BR HDD recorders for the past 2 yrs - you can safely bet that their 1st 'stand alone' BR player will be 'bug' free too!

HD-DVD discs in Japan are 25 GBP - When BR discs go into mass production for movies and games they will be cheaper than this... a blank BR costs about 10 GBP just now.

[DanielTS]

Blu-ray players have been out in Japan for over 4yrs - this isn't new technology!
Why do people think the PS3 will be a poor BR player when Sony have been developing them for the past 5yrs, HD only came into existence early last year.
Panasonic and Sharp have also been producing BR HDD recorders for the past 2 yrs - you can safely bet that their 1st 'stand alone' BR player will be 'bug' free too!

HD-DVD discs in Japan are 25 GBP - When BR discs go into mass production for movies and games they will be cheaper than this... a blank BR costs about 10 GBP just now.
Prerecorded movies are stored on BD-ROM.
BD-ROM (disc), BD-J (interactivity), BD+, BD ROM-Mark, AACS (protection) in Blu-ray (prerecorded movies) player are new.
Blu-ray players that have been out in Japan for over 4yrs can't play these following Blu-ray titles :
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29769511&sid=7ab4377521aaff856d9c31280c64416a

[JamesL]

So is there actually a date for HD-DVD/Blu-Ray to be launched in the UK?
For hardware yes. Toshiba UK is informing people that the HD-X1 will be released in November (no news on the HD-XA1 yet though :( ). Pioneer UK has informed it's 'The Works' dealers that it is planning to release the BDP-HD1 (http://www.avland.co.uk/pioneer/bdphd1/bdp-hd1.htm) around September/October. And Sony of course has announced the PS3 for November. As for software though....well I wouldn't hold your breath. At least with HD DVD you should be able to import US titles. Region coding prevents that on BluRay though...

[SuperSaiyan4]

I'm getting the PS3 for my six year old for Christmas so I'll wait to see what the BD quality is like before I spend anymore money. If the PS3 playback is good then I'll buy another PS3 for GT5 and BD for my PJ.:smashin:

Buying a PS3 for a 6yo is like buying a Ferrari for an 18yo kid.

The PS3 is said to be a PC Hybrid and not so much of a games machine - probably true since its GPU is nowhere as powerful as the Xbox 360 Custom ATi GPU :grin:

[SuperSaiyan4]

Blu-ray players have been out in Japan for over 4yrs - this isn't new technology!
Why do people think the PS3 will be a poor BR player when Sony have been developing them for the past 5yrs, HD only came into existence early last year.
Panasonic and Sharp have also been producing BR HDD recorders for the past 2 yrs - you can safely bet that their 1st 'stand alone' BR player will be 'bug' free too!

HD-DVD discs in Japan are 25 GBP - When BR discs go into mass production for movies and games they will be cheaper than this... a blank BR costs about 10 GBP just now.

You want to back up that brave statement of Japan having blu-ray for the past 5yrs? I find that very hard to believe.

[Max Payne]

There I thinking that I would be favouring HD DVD - but Kill Bill is on Blu Ray......will have to get both now.

Anyone think that we will end up with both?

PS3 (Blu Ray) and xbox360 (HD DVD) in the living rooms of most homes?

[shaithis]

The PS3 is said to be a PC Hybrid and not so much of a games machine - probably true since its GPU is nowhere as powerful as the Xbox 360 Custom ATi GPU :grin:

The XBox WAS a PC. The XBox360, while not being x86 compatible and not having a HDD by standard, is still pretty damn close to being a PC.

The PS3 on paper looks to be the one that is most removed from PC architechture IMO.

[Drew2]

You want to back up that brave statement of Japan having blu-ray for the past 5yrs? I find that very hard to believe.
over 4yrs
Can't find the original BD player and can't remember it's code No' but this one goes back too 2003;

http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/BD/

Hope that will do!! But it was more to prove a point that BR was an already established technology whether it can read BR-ROM or not. HDDVD is only over one year old, I wrote a post about Hitachi & Toshiba developing this technology.
So to say that the PS3 will not be up to the job just sounds 'bonkers' too me as I have seen BR for several years and can only presume that the PS will be equal or surpass what they have already achieved.

[bluesilver]

thanks for all the responses.
Seems like the problem is
(a) no-one knows if the ps3 will be as good as a BR or HD player or not, which is understandable considering it's not out yet.
and
(b) the problem is, depending on what format wins, or in the short term brings out the most attractive titles, we won't know what player to get at all for a very long time as we've no idea how long this format war will last.

Buggernuts.

[BenchyUK]

For hardware yes. Toshiba UK is informing people that the HD-X1 will be released in November (no news on the HD-XA1 yet though :( ). Pioneer UK has informed it's 'The Works' dealers that it is planning to release the BDP-HD1 (http://www.avland.co.uk/pioneer/bdphd1/bdp-hd1.htm) around September/October. And Sony of course has announced the PS3 for November. As for software though....well I wouldn't hold your breath. At least with HD DVD you should be able to import US titles. Region coding prevents that on BluRay though...

So HD-DVD won't have region Coding and will be cheaper to develop and purchase. Seems like a no brainer compared to Blue-Ray on what people should choose. Is he extra space that Blue-Ray discs has hold even needed? Isn't what HD-DVD can hols not enough?

Are people even considering Blue-Ray simply because some films will be on Blue-Ray and some on HD-DVD?

[shaithis]

Some people feel the storage space is a winner.

I am not one of them :)

But then I feel both are doomed, if only they had joined together and made a common standard....bloody Sony :suicide:

[Dutch]

Blu-ray players have been out in Japan for over 4yrs - this isn't new technology!


No, that Sony Blu-ray recorder that came out 3 years ago won't be able to play the new BD-ROM standard discs as they can only handle Mpeg2 - not Mpeg4 or VC1 or any of the new HD sound codecs either.

Steve

[Drew2]

But then I feel both are doomed, if only they had joined together and made a common standard....bloody Sony

Just in case you didn't know,

When Sony developed Betamax all those years ago they kept the patent & licence.
Since then they learned their lesson and this time -

They extended the licence to ANY company, so Panasonic & Sharp both happily accepted.

Hitachi & Toshiba "Spat out the dummy" and developed the 'format' war this time, not because they HAD too but because they WANTED to do! and now people want to back them under the belief that they came up with an 'alternative' rather than they wanted to reap the rewards 'single' handedly. I don't see anyone 'boycotting' Philips!! Who BTW invent most things and own CD technology that we all love. If you argue the point that HDDVD is cheaper then that is only because BR has to reduce it's production by THAT proportional amount.

So Please everyone get of this 'bantering' horse - we and I mean ALL of us deserve the very best, this has been already developed and joining someone elses self serving profit making bandwagon doesn't do any of us any good - OK, some one needs to make the profit and as long as they develop a future 'sustainable' technology we should all back it! It is for our benefit after all and not their bank accounts!!

Just my "Two Yen Worth":devil:

[Drew2]

No, that Sony Blu-ray recorder that came out 3 years ago won't be able to play the new BD-ROM standard discs as they can only handle Mpeg2 - not Mpeg4 or VC1 or any of the new HD sound codecs either.

Steve

...and I NEVER said they would! Just that HD has been out there and others have caused the delay for all to enjoy...

[BadAss]

Some people feel the storage space is a winner.

I am not one of them :)

But then I feel both are doomed, if only they had joined together and made a common standard....bloody Sony :suicide:

BD is the common standard if you ask all the manufacturers building BD players. Its only whaen you ask the odd man out, bloody Toshiba thats tries to say different.

If people wait, they will eventualy see all films come out on BD. Its only odd man out, bloody Universal thats stalling on that one.

These threads got to make you laugh.;)

[Zeddy]

IF both standards make it to the high street, and stand on their own merits, what are the chances that big title movies will eventually appear in both formats, albeit with a time lag between the two?

It would seem that an agreement between interested parties could push title sales up by a decent amount... ...but will it happen :confused:

[BadAss]

I hope people understand the short comings of getting a HD-DVD player. Before making a decision, take a look at Sony/MGM/Columbia back catalogue and see if their are any films their you might want to buy because none of them will every see the light of day on HD-DVD.

[ianh64]

I know I started a poll and put my preference as HD-DVD (because of DVD-A support), but I've got at least 6 ways of playing DVD's back (PS2, DVD/RW, HQ DVD/CD player, various PC's) and I don't honestly feel that, when the price is at a level that many people will start being interested in the technology, that they will be particularly bothered about having different units to play different discs - assuming the players come down in size to allow you to get two units simultaneously in the living room.

[JamesL]

I hope people understand the short comings of getting a HD-DVD player. Before making a decision, take a look at Sony/MGM/Columbia back catalogue and see if their are any films their you might want to buy because none of them will every see the light of day on HD-DVD.
Ditto for HD DVD and Universal. Microsoft has considerable influence over Universal (via it's links with NBC) hence the reason the studio hasn't declared for dual format support. Microsoft has a major stake in HD DVD - it uses their own interactive layer and also serves to weaken arch-rival Java's support of BluRay.

There are also a number of what might be called 'secondary' studios - such as HBO - which are also HD DVD exclusive. And studio support of both formats doesn't necessary mean equal support: Warner's HD DVD lineup is alot more impressive than the handful of announced BluRay titles despite promises to the contary. Ultimately though - apart from Universal and Sony - the majority of the studios will go with whichever way the wind blows.

[shaithis]

I hope people understand the short comings of getting a HD-DVD player. Before making a decision, take a look at Sony/MGM/Columbia back catalogue and see if their are any films their you might want to buy because none of them will every see the light of day on HD-DVD.

Rubbish. How can anyone say that? You (like everyone else) have no idea who (if anyone) will be a winner in this format war.

If HD-DVD becomes a clear winner, then Sony/MGM/Columbia WILL release their films on that format, they would be stupid not to.

You sound like someone who is desperate for Sony to win and are trying to influence the early-adopters who could potentially decide the outcome.

[NicolasB]

Rubbish. How can anyone say that? You (like everyone else) have no idea who (if anyone) will be a winner in this format war.

If HD-DVD becomes a clear winner, then Sony/MGM/Columbia WILL release their films on that format, they would be stupid not to.But if they don't release their films on HD-DVD to begin with, how will HD-DVD ever become a clear winner? We're rapidly heading for a situation where all films are released on BluRay, but only half are released on HD-DVD. There's no way HD-DVD will become dominant if that's what happens.

[shaithis]

It all depends on what films get released and if people buy them.....

I know many people will resist the regional encoding on BluRay, plus HD-DVD will be out first and the US population will almost certainly go out and buy it without a second-thought, espeically as the majority of US HDTVs are component and not HDMI.

If BluRay fails to take off in a reasonable amount of time and HD-DVD sells a lot of players, these companies will not sit idly-by and stick to a format that isn't making them money.

[BadAss]

Rubbish. How can anyone say that? You (like everyone else) have no idea who (if anyone) will be a winner in this format war.

If HD-DVD becomes a clear winner, then Sony/MGM/Columbia WILL release their films on that format, they would be stupid not to.

You sound like someone who is desperate for Sony to win and are trying to influence the early-adopters who could potentially decide the outcome.

I'm sorry if you dont agree with my opinions...but lets take a reality check and get some facts. Why would companies as large as Sony, Pioneer, Samsung, Panasonic, Sharp and others, LG etc pump millions into BD only to turn round and say well 'Oh well HD-DVD came out first lets bin BD and spend another six months developing a HD-DVD player.'

Do you think manufacturers are that short sighted, or fickle?

I'm not telling people how to spend their money just pointing out what they will be missing if they buy into a format with 2 players to pick from and around 40% studio support.

As they say the coice is yours.

[JamesL]

lets take a reality check and get some facts. Why would companies as large as Sony, Pioneer, Samsung, Panasonic, Sharp and others, LG etc pump millions into BD only to turn round and say well 'Oh well HD-DVD came out first lets bin BD and spend another six months developing a HD-DVD player.'

Do you think manufacturers are that short sighted, or fickle?
Ironically if we look at the DVD Recordable market then that is precisely what happened. A breakaway group developed the 'plus' standard for no other reason than to get a big chunk of licensing revenue. And whilst the Japanese giants all supported the 'minus' format they were soon forced into adding 'plus' support to their players/recorders.

But if they don't release their films on HD-DVD to begin with, how will HD-DVD ever become a clear winner? We're rapidly heading for a situation where all films are released on BluRay, but only half are released on HD-DVD
We are not, unfortunately, heading towards a situation anything like that. Warner's BluRay and HD DVD releases are not 'equal'. Neither are Paramounts. Ergo there will be a significant number of films from so-called 'neutral' studios that will actually be one format only. The precedent we have seen from the high def audio market also supports this.

What does make me laugh though - and clearly highlights how complex the whole situation has become - is the fact that the world's first commercially available HD DVD title was a "BluRay exclusive" Sony picture: Resident Evil...

[BadAss]

LOL, and you can buy that from?

[shaithis]

I beleive Res Evil comes free when you buy the Tosh HD-DVD player in Japan.....either that or its a launch title over there as every review and post from japan regarding HD-DVD all seem to demo Resident Evil.

EDIT: Just checked and the Tosh ships with HD-DVD releases of Resident Evil and Jellyfish free. This completely and utterly nullifies the statement you made:

Before making a decision, take a look at Sony/MGM/Columbia back catalogue and see if their are any films their you might want to buy because none of them will every see the light of day on HD-DVD.

So, HD-DVD or BluRay? ;)

[matt_p]

I beleive Res Evil comes free when you buy the Tosh HD-DVD player in Japan.....either that or its a launch title over there as every review and post from japan regarding HD-DVD all seem to demo Resident Evil.

Yep, the HD-DVD players come bundled with Resident Evil (called Biohazard over there) and a Japanese movie called Moonlight Jellyfish.

[JamesL]

This completely and utterly nullifies the statement you made
Indeed. And goes to show that the whole issue of film rights is far more complicated than just saying Film A is owned by Company B and therefore will be on Format C. Too many people are just looking at which studios support which formats rather than looking deeper. The situation is more complex than people think...

Where HD DVD will benefit is from the fact it is multi-region. A HD DVD should be able to play a disc from Japan or Europe or America (assuming the playes support 50Hz and 60Hz - a fact I'm sure the UK variants will). A BluRay will be region limited and thus even if the title is available in a different country you will still need a second player. :(

[turk3y]

Hello btw, first post :)

this seems to have gone off track to a br / hddvd thread.

As per the original topic surly the question is whether a software based player (ps3) is likly to offer superior quality to a hardware based player of a diferent format?

As noted the ps2 played dvds but did not set the world alight with its quality, and I feel the same will be said for the ps3, after all sony are using it as a trojan horse to get the userbase up. They will also wish to sell their overpriced regular blur ray players with which they care about quality.

This is just my newb opinion, but i cant see sony going all out on the ps3 as a br player, it is just to shift units and get a foot hold. Even as a poor br player ists going to look a hell of alot beter than dvd and they know it.

Lets face it, of your into br and most people here are, just pre order it anyway. Give it a week and check it out, if you like it keep it, and if you dont sell it at twice the price on ebay due to the chrismas shortage rush ;)

[AgentCool]

But if they don't release their films on HD-DVD to begin with, how will HD-DVD ever become a clear winner? We're rapidly heading for a situation where all films are released on BluRay, but only half are released on HD-DVD. There's no way HD-DVD will become dominant if that's what happens.

There are many HD-DVD titles that aren't going to be released on Blu-Ray. All of Universal's catalogue for instance and they have big films like King Kong and Gladiator. Just because certain studios aren't going to release on HD-DVD doesn't mean they never will. For example, there were a number of studios who refused to release their movies onto DVD until around 2 or 3 years after the players were released.

If a clear winner is declared then all studios will develop discs for it and as far as I'm concerned, HD-DVD looks like the better choice for the consumer primarily due to its significantly lower price.

[silkyandy x]

I beleive Res Evil comes free when you buy the Tosh HD-DVD player in Japan.....either that or its a launch title over there as every review and post from japan regarding HD-DVD all seem to demo Resident Evil.

EDIT: Just checked and the Tosh ships with HD-DVD releases of Resident Evil and Jellyfish free. This completely and utterly nullifies the statement you made:



So, HD-DVD or BluRay? ;)

Exactly, Of course they would release there content on the winner of the war, Did they release there films on VHS after losing ouit in the last 'battle'?

[Games Guru]

Depending on how the movie downloads route goes and if we can get decent quality HD movie downloads for a reasonable price (sub £5) I will probably just buy a large external hard drive and stream the films through my xbox 360.

[MartinImber]

Everyone is still forgetting the companies.

Sony Pioneer and Matsush-ita vs Toshiba

Toshiba is not as big as the three main BR players.

TBH most people will buy whatever is inside a Sony, Pioneer or Panasonic box

[shaithis]

As long as the hardware is decent, anyone who buys for the make of the player, rather then the content it delivers, is a bit silly IMO.

Surely content (and technical features) will be more important then brand for most people?

[Kopacabana]

I think that this time round, Sony have been much more savvy.

Originally, the PS2 was meant to be the defining machine in the gaming world. OK, it sold and the software sold, but the system was rushed and the final specs were some way short of the original specs.

They lost a bit of kudos on this and my feeling is that there is no way they will make the same mistake twice. Plus, the delay in Blu-Ray means that the entire system can be refined and honed.

They could have rushed out a PS2.5 to compete with the XBox360 but they hung back to make sure the PS3 is right.

They want a machine that will not only sell well but will give them 1st place in the respect stakes.

Will BR be better on a dedicated player or on the PS3? Of course, I don't know but history has told us that playback will probably be better on a dedicated player.

That said, as we all know there is a vast number of dedicated DVD players on the market covering the whole range of playback quality from unwatchable to outstanding.

My personal thoughts are that the PS3 BR output will be good to very good. Given it's other attributes, in my book, it will give better value as it will probably be several £100s cheaper than the 'very good' BR players whrn it comes out.

Remember that the PS3 is predominantly a GAMES CONSOLE. If you wanna play games get it. If not then don't.

:smashin:

[beetle]

There I thinking that I would be favouring HD DVD - but Kill Bill is on Blu Ray......will have to get both now.

Anyone think that we will end up with both?

PS3 (Blu Ray) and xbox360 (HD DVD) in the living rooms of most homes?

I understand that Samsung intend to produce a DVD that will be capable of playing both formats...very clever but will this require a 2 man delivery ?

[roguejackal]

Have just read through the posts in this section and it seems that oppinions are divided on the better system,

The better system on specs etc would be blu-ray but I think the first shot in the foot is them being region coded, the 2nd could be if HD players are available by any decent legnth of time ahead of blu-ray,

I also see X-box360 quoted as HD, it is for games but not for DVD , though I believe microsoft has announced that could change, so was that just bad planning ,because they rushed the 360 out to get a foothold ahead of ps3 or a money grabbing exercise, dont get me wrong I have a 360 on a LCD with 7.1 surround sound system but after all the excitemant im not blown away by it , the only thing that is really good about it is X-box live, the live network for sony ps2 has never took off in Europe in the same way (another shot in the foot) but the track record for Sony and there games consoles for the last 2 (PS1 & PS2) has pretty much blown the opposition away in sales regardless of specs, also the ps2 could be counted as the main reason for the dvd explosion mainstream.

My main point(im getting there) is that if the PS3 is anywhere as successful as the ps1 or ps2 there will be a Blu-ray player in living rooms at first but bedrooms all around the world , it wont matter if its a mediocre player it will be better than dvd,it will only matter to the few people like me and you on these forums around the world who strive for the best quality possible or can afford, so if the PS3 is successful, I can only see one winner.

[mgillespie]

Well the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player is being launched in USA at $499 this month, and that equates to about £285. You reckon the PS3 will come out at £140? ;)

HaHa, you think you will be able to buy a HD-DVD player for £285? You really have been suckered in by HD-DVD desperate marketing campaign.

HD-DVD is doomed, the day it was dropped as a standard fit in the XBox360. I attended a Microsoft seminar a few days ago, Blu-Ray got several mentions, HD-DVD not a single wisper, and this is from a HD-DVD partner!!!

Perhaps you may be able to buy a HD-DVD for £285 when it's in the obsolete bargain bin at Richer Sounds...

[BadAss]

What are people with HD-DVD players going to do when films come out from companies such as Sony, Fox and Disney who are all BD exclusive? They will be opting out of buying films like, Star Wars, SpiderMan, X-Men, Alien, Aliens....

[The Atheist]

Just out of curiosity, do people intend to by films they already own again once they are on Blu-Ray/HD-DVD? Personally i feel it will take a couple of years before either format becomes truely mainstream as most people are currently very happy with normal DVD - and the thought of forking out yet more money to replace movies they already own will put people off at first.

The key factor will be the extent of new releases that are Blu-Ray/HD-DVD exclusive as to pave the way for making normal DVD obsolete!

Don't get me wrong, i am looking forward to the Blu-ray revolution - particularly with regard to the PS3 - but the new formats are limited by the amount of consumers who actually have HD-ready screens - which isn't that many at the moment!! Someone mentioned early adopters defining the overll winner out of the 2 formats, this is not true as they only make up a small fraction of consumers. It is the less adventurous consumers that will eventually decide the winner.

[BenchyUK]

I will only be buying major releases that i kike on HD-DVD and BlueRay like the 12 disc Starw Wars box set or SAW. most dvd's i will be buying will be in Standard definition as a) the player will upscale them and they will look brilliant anyway and b) it means i can still get my 3 for £20 at HMV

[Games Guru]

What are people with HD-DVD players going to do when films come out from companies such as Sony, Fox and Disney who are all BD exclusive? They will be opting out of buying films like, Star Wars
No real loss then! :grin:

[BadAss]

No real loss then! :grin:

Come on Games Guru, you know you don't mean it. How can any man resist Princess Leia in her slave outfit at 1080p?;)

[john200856]

I have a Denon DVD 3910 do I buy the top of the range Denon DVD or do I hang on till BR +HD players come out?

[BadAss]

I have a Denon DVD 3910 do I buy the top of the range Denon DVD or do I hang on till BR +HD players come out?

Definately wait. Denon hasn't come off the fence yet as far as HD is concerned but if you have a HD ready display it won't hurt to be patient.

[1080 jawbreaker]

well considering the PS2 was the shittiest DVD Player i ever seen i'll be steering clear of $ony's over hyped blunder-ray gaming machine :)

[BadAss]

well considering the PS2 was the shittiest DVD Player i ever seen i'll be steering clear of $ony's over hyped blunder-ray gaming machine :)

Your choice. So what player will you be watching 1080 movies on?

[1080 jawbreaker]

im waiting for a PC playback option

[musicman1999]

here in canada,i was told at our local sony store not to expect blue ray players from sony until november at the earliest.I plan to wait until this mess is all sorted out before i get involved.Just to many questions about both formats.

bill

[Games Guru]

im waiting for a PC playback option
If MS are supporting HDDVD you can bet your arse they will go out of their way to make blu-ray incompatible, especially with vista.

[WelshBluebird]

If MS are supporting HDDVD you can bet your arse they will go out of their way to make blu-ray incompatible, especially with vista.

I wouldn't be suprised if they did try, but tbh, I don't see how they can. Their already under fire from the EU (for bundling things with Windows), so if they do block blu-ray drives in vista, IMHO, they'd be creating more trouble than it's worth in terms of even more fines from the EU.

[Welsh Whirlwind]

People reading this thread I think everyones forgetting who will ultimately decide the format winner, not Universal, not Paramount, not Sony.. but the largest industry in the world, yes you guessed it THE PORN INDUSTRY.

Whatever this sector decides to adopt will be the CLEAR WINNER no question. And I must say some of the bigger companies ie. Private/Playboy seem to be leaning towards BLU RAY, why? ..Because of the larger storage capacity. The Industry seems to be getting quite excited about the possibility of putting multiple films/interactive features on 1 disc.
So with this in mind along with the powerhouse that is Sony together with PS3.... I think we have a winner, but heh? who knows!?

[mattym]

Dell and HP are backing BR, so if microsoft decide to make Vista hate BR, they will be having the 2 largest PC manufacturers getting the hump with them..do they really want that?

[BenchyUK]

Even though i want to go for a HD-DVD player because it's cheaper and everything else which makes it seem like a better deal, i just have a feeling that Blue-Ray make take it and win the format war due to the PS3 forcing Blue-Ray and the sheer mumber of companies and corporations that are backing it compared to HD-DVD

I saw also that it's up to the Porn industry to decide and they seem to want to go for Blue-Ray which isn't good news for HD-DVD. Everyone i know considers HD-DVD as DVD 1.5 and Blue-Ray being next step up and like DVD 2

I just want to know what will happen to films like Star Wars which is being released on HD-DVD if they format was to fail

[deniewibly]

I think that the PS3 will be a pretty decent vehicle for playing back Blu-Ray discs as Sony really will want to show off this technology to the masses. However, it can't possibly be as good as a standalone player purely because of the noise of the unit. The PS3 (like the XBox360) will run very hot and will need some serious cooling. I couldn't watch a movie on my XBox360, the constant whirring of the fans would be soooooo annoying in quiet parts of the movie.

Anyone know if Sony have an estimated UK date for their standalone player?

D

[Games Guru]

I imagine the PS3 being rubbish, in terms of BR playback, probably because the PS2 was so poor at dvd playback.

TBH the main thing that is putting me off the PS3 is the blu-ray player. It has ramped up the cost of the unit considerably, and it is a huge gamble, what if HD-DVD wins? :eek:

If I buy a new player I will wait 18 months for a hybrid and then just buy the films I like, whether they happen to be on HDDVD or BR.

[Games Guru]

I wouldn't be suprised if they did try, but tbh, I don't see how they can. Their already under fire from the EU (for bundling things with Windows), so if they do block blu-ray drives in vista, IMHO, they'd be creating more trouble than it's worth in terms of even more fines from the EU.
MS would try anything mate. Even if it meant HDDVD got a 6 month headstart in PCs would mean a large established HDDVD base of users.

The could at least whack BR off the windows compatible drivers list, and that alone would put off a lot of consumers, with that incompatible or unrecognisable driver pop-up.

[eternaldark]

I imagine the PS3 being rubbish, in terms of BR playback, probably because the PS2 was so poor at dvd playback.


Unlikely, Sony are putting everything into Blu-Ray and people are going to judge that std by the PS3's playback. So granted the playback wont be anywhere near a std alone play (and this hasn't been verified no-one knows what the playback will be like) but i think the playback will be fairly decent.

And as for the PS2 playback being rubbish, granted it was, but it was also responsible for bringing DVD to the masses.
Sony are counting on that happening again to make Blu-Ray the new STD

[reingam]

Very interesting thread here - I'm realitively new to all this but was recently talking to a guy RS and he reckons that new movies e.g. Star Wars III played on an upscaler (I have the Marantz DV7600) on a 42" screen will not look significantly better i.e. you would need a 55"+ screen to really reap the benefits of HD/Blu-Ray as a DVD format - looks like I'll have to invest in a bigger screen:thumbsup:

Also I haven't really been following SACD progress but I know that about a year ago it was hyped to be the next music revolution but it seems to have more or less rolled over and died. So if the regular joe schmoes don't go for HD/Blu Ray is there the chance that they could BOTH be going nowhere!!!????

[BenchyUK]

I admit that after watching Star Wars Episode 3 on my Denon 1920 and Panasonic 32'' LCD i was blown away by the pricture and though i was watching High Definition

If that is the case and the picture is not much better then i don't mind waiting for a format to win before i invest in a new player

[NackNack]

Your choice. So what player will you be watching 1080 movies on?
A HD-DVD player in 1080i?
If MS are supporting HDDVD you can bet your arse they will go out of their way to make blu-ray incompatible, especially with vista.
MS said they will support either format or both if they're both successful.

[GagHalfrunt]

Just out of curiosity, do people intend to by films they already own again once they are on Blu-Ray/HD-DVD?

I should imagine so, yes. A lot us of spent the money replacing laserdisc collections over time (as decent anamorphic versions came out on DVD) and I see this no different.

And yes, I still have my LD player for the odd film.

[spikerules]

Wait for BD players (e.g the PS3) and forget about HD-DVD. It will loose the war and you'll me stuck with a door stop.

[GagHalfrunt]

Wait for BD players (e.g the PS3) and forget about HD-DVD. It will loose the war and you'll me stuck with a door stop.

Sorry, I don't agree. We just don't know what format is going to win, anything else is pure speculation.

And remember from the Betamax story, the best doesn't always win.

[spikerules]

Sorry, I don't agree. We just don't know what format is going to win, anything else is pure speculation.

And remember from the Betamax story, the best doesn't always win.

Indeed we dont, I was injected a little sarcasm and humor into the thread;) Still, I hope BD wins:smashin:

[Packetfront]

Sorry, I don't agree. We just don't know what format is going to win, anything else is pure speculation.

And remember from the Betamax story, the best doesn't always win.

Problem is that Betamax was much much better than VHS.

This is not the case Bluray vs HD-DVD, they are almost equal and to some extent Bluray is not the winner here.

First of all Bluray isn't even released, there are still problems, earliest would be in the summer but don't be surprised if it takes another 6 months and then we are in 2007 at earliest, at that time HD-DVD been out for nearly 1 year and most people have HD-DVD at home who wanted to jump on to it.

It would not surprise me if Microsoft get the HD-DVD player out to it's X-BOX long before PS3 will ever be released.

This could be the doom year for Sony if they fail both Bluray and PS3 at the same time.

We will see but HD-DVD clearly got more advantages than Bluray as Bluray isn't even released yet....

[weyland-yutani]

i assume both formats will support playback of our SD dvds? i'll probably only buy new dvds that condense trilogies and tv series etc., for convinience and space saving. not really bothered about this "my toy's better than your toy" nonsense. all i want is hi-def at low-def prices:grin:

[NackNack]

Indeed we dont, I was injected a little sarcasm and humor into the thread;) Still, I hope BD wins:smashin:
Why?

[BadAss]

BD will win. Once Universal jumps on board and PS3 is finaly out and all the speculation is over, people will actually sit down and watch some movies. Those who have BD players will (eventualy!) have the choice of everything. Those who have HD-DVD players will be asking, why Sony/MGM, Fox, Disney don't relese their movies on HD-DVD? Then people like me will be saying well this was what I said would happen. Then it will be like what we had before, people with Betamax players buying into VHS, people with LD players buying into DVD, people with D-VHS buying into HD-DVD, people with HD-DVD buying into BD.

Lets get both formats out in the shops then start analysing sales across 2007 as I'm sure alot of Studios will will be.

HD-DVD has one thing going for it and thats an early release date, US anyway. Once that edge has gone were on an even playing field.

[1080 jawbreaker]

try getting average joe with his budget plamsa to shell out $1000 for bluray player. It aint gonna happen. Every thing about bluray is way over priced imo. Just look how much TDK have priced there BR writables at. :rotfl:

DVD only went large once players from the Supermarket were available for £30. cant see BR retailing for £30 any time soon :grin:

[BadAss]

try getting average joe with his budget plamsa to shell out $1000 for bluray player. It aint gonna happen. Every thing about bluray is way over priced imo. Just look how much TDK have priced there BR writables at. :rotfl:

DVD only went large once players from the Supermarket were available for £30. cant see BR retailing for £30 any time soon :grin:

Round and round for the millionth time. The average Joe will get a PS3 in that case.

Another case solved, Next!

[NackNack]

BD will win.

HD-DVD has one thing going for it and thats an early release date, US anyway. Once that edge has gone were on an even playing field.
And the price? And the name?

Stop spouting ********, you don't know that BluRay will win, so stop saying it as if it's a certainty.

[BadAss]

And the price? And the name?

Stop spouting ********, you don't know that BluRay will win, so stop saying it as if it's a certainty.

What price? What name?

I suppose this war is like a pregnancy test. They never tell you if your pregnant 100% so you cant sue them for being wrong. So for NackNack I will PREDICT, I'm 99.9999999999999% certain BD will prevail.

Next people will want DNA proof of who the father is.......

[AgentCool]

Consider that Panasonic's BD player will cost around £1000. Now, if the PS3 BD player was so amazing then nobody in their right mind would pay £500 more for a player that doesn't even have the added bonus of being a games console. Panasonic must know this and therefore have a decent idea how crap/good the PS3's player will be.

If it sells for £500, the PS3's BD player will stink; it's mathematically impossible for it not to.

[1080 jawbreaker]

Round and round for the millionth time. The average Joe will get a PS3 in that case.

Another case solved, Next!

and were will he plug the HDMI cable? into the back of his portable tv in the bedroom? 80% of ps2 users are probably still connected to there tv via the supplied composite cable :rotfl:

[spikerules]

Consider that Panasonic's BD player will cost around £1000. Now, if the PS3 BD player was so amazing then nobody in their right mind would pay £500 more for a player that doesn't even have the added bonus of being a games console. Panasonic must know this and therefore have a decent idea how crap/good the PS3's player will be.

If it sells for £500, the PS3's BD player will stink; it's mathematically impossible for it not to.

Games consoles are known to take a big hit for the first few years of their life span, hoping that games will turn over a profit for the consoles manufacturer, rather than depending on the hardware sales. In the case of Blu-Ray, Sony are supposedly losing $100 each console just on the drive, let alone the cell processor, memory, casing etc… Overall Sony is likely to lose $400-500 on each sale!

After around two or so years Sony will start to see a profit and after that Blu-Ray players/recorders will be sold in Tesco’s for a small fee, as were DVD players before them!

Pricing is a complete BS story… especially as the first adopters are going to be the hardcore buyers (as was the case with DVD) who are willing to shell out the money. Then we get PS3 (at the start of the HD war no less) which will bring the average family into the fold.

PS3 will determine the outcome IMO. However, If the PS3 fails in the console war this generation, the likelihood will be that HD-DVD may well win. Then again BD has the studio support….

[ianh64]

I suppose this war is like a pregnancy test. They never tell you if your pregnant 100% so you cant sue them for being wrong. So for NackNack I will PREDICT, I'm 99.9999999999999% certain BD will prevail.

I don't agree. What will (according to my crystal ball 99.99999999999999999999999999%) definately happen is that Universal will stop selling DVD's and only sell HD-DVD's with a DVD compatibility layer. So everyone that buys a Universal film will like this as they have a HD label on it - even though they have no way of watching it. After a while, they will soon realise this and start buying HD-DVD players and recorders - recordable blu ray tecnolology will be inherrinently unreliable in the consumer environment and not take off. The other studios will start loosing out because by then, people will insist on 'HD-DVD' and because blu-ray will not have a DVD compatibility so the disc cannot be played on a standard DVD player, they will be forced to also produce for HD-DVD too. Game over for blu-ray and the title manufacturers will still be happy because they are still selling discs (even Sony). Blu-ray will be viewed as a new technology rather than a progression of a current one and be shunned by the nervous purchaser who would be happy to go with HD-DVD as it still DVD and will play on their existing kit - blu-ray will be consigned to being the media for the PS3. It won't take off in the PC market because there will be many different flavors of it (since M$ will not buld support for it into Windows) and one set of drivers will be incompatible with another - as recordable media people will also shy away from it due to unreliability and cost of media.

If the PS3 is such a killer app for blu-ray, why didn't Sony use the PS2 as the killer app for their Memory Stick technology? Probably becuase in the global scheme of things, PS2 was a niche market and I suspect the same will be viewed as being true for PS3. PS3 will also be cut down to bare bones so will not support the advanced codecs built into more advanced blu-ray machines and all HD-DVD players. This will put many people off from using it as a serious player - and their memories of how poor and noisey a DVD player the PS2 was.

Now the above contains no substantive fact much like many of the posts preceeding that use a crystal ball made by Sony. But my crystal ball (made by Toshiba) says that it will come true.

I use to own a crystal ball made by Sony, but it hid the nasties from me and I learned the hard and expensive way. There are now very few Sony technologies that I would trust not having a hidden agenda to.

[Games Guru]

Sony don't have the track record though do they. Betamax, MD, UMD all have or will fall on their arses.

With UMD, what the hell was that all about anyway? Did they really expect it to take off when the PSP takes memory sticks?! :confused:

Absolutely bizarre technology that one.

[satinder]

People reading this thread I think everyones forgetting who will ultimately decide the format winner, not Universal, not Paramount, not Sony.. but the largest industry in the world, yes you guessed it THE PORN INDUSTRY.

I see that somebody watches the Gadget Show :grin:, but you are right whether any of you will admit it its the filthy movies that will decide. Theres talk of discs with 10 interactive movies on them :eek:, now i hardly think a 15 gig HD-DVD can store that?

Sat

[Nic Rhodes]

With UMD, what the hell was that all about anyway? Did they really expect it to take off when the PSP takes memory sticks?! :confused:

Absolutely bizarre technology that one.

£25 for UMD King Kong!!:eek: That will be popular.

[Noggin1980]

I see that somebody watches the Gadget Show :grin:, but you are right whether any of you will admit it its the filthy movies that will decide. Theres talk of discs with 10 interactive movies on them :eek:, now i hardly think a 15 gig HD-DVD can store that?

Sat

What benefit really does a disc with 10 movies on it have over 2 discs with 5 movies on each? Do people even want their movies like this? Will people pay 150 pounds for a 10 movie disc or would they prefer to pay the 15 pounds per title? I don't want to pay extra to get big butt beuties when I only really want Lesbian nympho nurses for example.

Personally when I buy the matrix trilogy or the lord of the rings trilogy I want each movie to have its own disc. I'd pay 45 pounds for 3 LOTR discs in a nicely presented box but for some strange reason a smaller box containing all 3 movies on 1 disc looks like bad value. It doesn't really make any sence but I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this.

[Noggin1980]

£25 for UMD King Kong!!:eek: That will be popular.

A few studios have already stoped with UMD releases completly, even sony whose format it is are cutting back on releases and being more picky with the movies they release in this format. Looks like UMD is almost certainly dead and thats no real loss imo. silly format

[Avi]

I see that somebody watches the Gadget Show :grin:, but you are right whether any of you will admit it its the filthy movies that will decide. Theres talk of discs with 10 interactive movies on them :eek:, now i hardly think a 15 gig HD-DVD can store that?

Sat

The current HD-DVD release are use 30Gb disk and VC-1 codec. The initial DB release will us 25Gb disk and Mpeg2 codec which actually means there will less space available due to the compression efficiency of Mpeg2. latest intel indicates that 50Gb disk still way off so for the foresable future DB is actualy at a disadvantage.

Avi

[Avi]

......I only really want Lesbian nympho nurses for example.




One of my all time favourites:devil:

[NicolasB]

I don't want to pay extra to get big butt beuties when I only really want Lesbian nympho nurses for example.Ewww, too much information. :god:

[Noggin1980]

Ewww, too much information. :god:

Not really, I don't even own any adult movies. I was simply producing a relevent example to satinders comment about putting 10 adult movies on one HD-DVD to show that I don't belive that is what consumers want.

[satinder]

Not really, I don't even own any adult movies. I was simply producing a relevent example to satinders comment about putting 10 adult movies on one HD-DVD to show that I don't belive that is what consumers want.

Im not making this up and i certainly dont agree with it. If you watched the Gadget Show episode about HD players there was some guy from Playboy who was saying "we have information from customers saying they like the idea of having multiple interactive scenes on one disc". I am not saying its what anyone wants im just repeating what the porn guy said.

Sat

[Noggin1980]

Im not making this up and i certainly dont agree with it. If you watched the Gadget Show episode about HD players there was some guy from Playboy who was saying "we have information from customers saying they like the idea of having multiple interactive scenes on one disc". I am not saying its what anyone wants im just repeating what the porn guy said.

Sat

I wasn't suggesting you were making anything up mate. Just making the point that I don't think consumers will want multiple movies on one disc if it costs the same as the multiple movies would seperatly. I don't think having 50Gb to put more movies on 1 disc is any more benefital to haveing less movies on a 30Gb disc.

[boksbox]

I find the arguments amusing, why are earth do people get so animated about a particular manufacturer?, I would have thought survival was the name of the game for some manufacturers rather than starting a format war, I'm going to be a conciencious objector in this war..

[Welsh Whirlwind]

I see that somebody watches the Gadget Show :grin

Sat
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[NackNack]

What price? What name?

I suppose this war is like a pregnancy test. They never tell you if your pregnant 100% so you cant sue them for being wrong. So for NackNack I will PREDICT, I'm 99.9999999999999% certain BD will prevail.

Next people will want DNA proof of who the father is.......
You predict you're certain it will prevail? :clap: :rotfl:

Christ almighty.

The price - HD-DVD players are half the price of BluRay players. HD-DVD has the 'DVD' part of the name so it's recognisable to the 'unknown'.

[vision#1]

:thumbsdow HD DVD players were launched today by Toshiba. No offense to fans of this format but why anybody would purchase one of these players with the inevitable Blue Ray on the horizon is beyond me. What are the average consumers going to do when they go into their nearest electronics store 6 months down the road and see 1 HD DVD player mixed in with 10 Blue Ray Players. By Thanksgiving you add the PS 3 into the mix and Blue Ray will clearly have sells and consumer confidence backing it well beyond that of HD DVD. One could debate which format is superior to the other , but in the end the only thing that matters is sells and in my opinion Blue Ray has the advantage on all levels.

[NicolasB]

Not really, I don't even own any adult movies. I was simply producing a relevent example to satinders comment about putting 10 adult movies on one HD-DVD to show that I don't belive that is what consumers want.Oh sure, back-pedalling furiously now, aren't we? :rotfl:

[pinkprobegt]

So what was this thread about again?

Personally I couldn't care less so long as we get a hi-def disc based format.

For those waiting for playback on PCs you will need Vista (or Mac equivalent), HDMI/DVI(HDCP) compatible graphics card and HDMI/DVI(HDCP) compatible display.

I will quite happily buy stuff again if there's an improvement. Older video stuff just isn't worth it to be honest as the quality isn't there, I mean old Star Trek TNG looks crap on normal DVD.

I'll be waiting till sometime next year I think :) Then get me a bigger and better display too....26" LCD doesn't do the format justice.

[Avi]

:thumbsdow HD DVD players were launched today by Toshiba. No offense to fans of this format but why anybody would purchase one of these players with the inevitable Blue Ray on the horizon is beyond me. What are the average consumers going to do when they go into their nearest electronics store 6 months down the road and see 1 HD DVD player mixed in with 10 Blue Ray Players. By Thanksgiving you add the PS 3 into the mix and Blue Ray will clearly have sells and consumer confidence backing it well beyond that of HD DVD. One could debate which format is superior to the other , but in the end the only thing that matters is sells and in my opinion Blue Ray has the advantage on all levels.


Just remind me of the advatages of BD - Some things to consider

- Player costs at least twice as much (based on factual pricing today Sony/Sam $999, Pioneer $1800)
- HD-DVD films are currently around $21-$24 per disk
- For the foreasble future BD will use the mpeg2 codec which is less efficient than than VC1 so compare the PQ and features of a 30GD HD DVD and a 25GD DB.
- 50Gb DB disk is not going to around any time soon
- HD-DVD on 360 will hit before PS3 even if does arrive in Nov
- What is the official the MRSP on a PS3 with BD, HDMI etc ?

So I'll sit back and watch some HD DVD movies now in the full knowledge that my 1st gen product will be far from perfect .

By the way in the long run I don't care what format wins if any I just want to want HD movies now !

[1080 jawbreaker]

Universal Media Disk. Could Sony shed some light on the "Universal" part please :rotfl:

[Noggin1980]

Oh sure, back-pedalling furiously now, aren't we? :rotfl:

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it :grin: :rotfl:

[matt_p]

For those waiting for playback on PCs you will need Vista (or Mac equivalent), HDMI/DVI(HDCP) compatible graphics card and HDMI/DVI(HDCP) compatible display.

And a new motherboard too, I'm pretty sure. I'll see if I can find a link...

[Avi]

:thumbsdow HD DVD players were launched today by Toshiba. No offense to fans of this format but why anybody would purchase one of these players with the inevitable Blue Ray on the horizon is beyond me. What are the average consumers going to do when they go into their nearest electronics store 6 months down the road and see 1 HD DVD player mixed in with 10 Blue Ray Players. By Thanksgiving you add the PS 3 into the mix and Blue Ray will clearly have sells and consumer confidence backing it well beyond that of HD DVD. One could debate which format is superior to the other , but in the end the only thing that matters is sells and in my opinion Blue Ray has the advantage on all levels.


Just remind me of the advatages of BD - Some things to consider

- Player costs at least twice as much (based on factual pricing today Sony/Sam $999, Pioneer $1800)
- HD-DVD films are currently around $21-$24 per disk
- For the foreasble future BD will use the mpeg2 codec which is less efficient than than VC1 so compare the PQ and features of a 30GD HD DVD and a 25GD DB.
- 50Gb DB disk is not going to around any time soon
- HD-DVD on 360 will hit before PS3 even if does arrive in Nov
- What is the official the MRSP on a PS3 with BD, HDMI etc ?

So I'll sit back and watch some HD DVD movies now in the full knowledge that my 1st gen product will be far from perfect .

By the way in the long run I don't care what format wins if any I just want to want HD movies now !

[Noggin1980]

Just remind me of the advatages of BD - Some things to consider

- Player costs at least twice as much (based on factual pricing today Sony/Sam $999, Pioneer $1800)
- HD-DVD films are currently around $21-$24 per disk
- For the foreasble future BD will use the mpeg2 codec which is less efficient than than VC1 so compare the PQ and features of a 30GD HD DVD and a 25GD DB.
- 50Gb DB disk is not going to around any time soon
- HD-DVD on 360 will hit before PS3 even if does arrive in Nov
- What is the official the MRSP on a PS3 with BD, HDMI etc ?

So I'll sit back and watch some HD DVD movies now in the full knowledge that my 1st gen product will be far from perfect .

By the way in the long run I don't care what format wins if any I just want to want HD movies now !

To be fair to blu-ray, dispite the fact that the discs are meant to cost significantly more to manufacture the movies seem to cost exactly the same as HD-DVD. I guess this is one area where the format war is good for us.

While Sony at least are using MPEG2 they can change over whenever they like. I think its up to the studio to chose what codec they will release the movie in, the players can handle Mpeg4 too. I'd expect picture quality and features to be almost identical between the formats.

There is no info on the price of the PS3 yet. Sony Europes head guy said between 499 and 599 euro which is about $800 in a straight conversion but sony were quick to say that he was just speculating and that was only his personal opinion. I can't see it releaseing at that price personally. I'd expect maybe $100 more than the 360 but its nothing but guess work untill E3 at the earliest.

Yeah there really isn't much in the formats, Blu-ray have the larger studio support but players costing $500 more is painfull. That means a HD-DVD player with 20 movies is cheaper than a blu-ray player.

[Endeavour]

Given the following factors:

graphical processing power of the PS3
having Nvidia as a partner
established digital interfaces
quality of the source material

I can only imagine that if the PS3 turns out to be a poor player it was done on purpose.

[shaithis]

I can only imagine that if the PS3 turns out to be a poor player it was done on purpose.

If on purpose, you mean: Didn't have the time and money invested in its BD playback that a stand-alone player would have....then I agree.

When you consider that they are saying $1k is an entry-BD player, thats either a lot of R&D or a complete and utter rip-off.

[Endeavour]

If on purpose, you mean: Didn't have the time and money invested in its BD playback that a stand-alone player would have....then I agree.

When you consider that they are saying $1k is an entry-BD player, thats either a lot of R&D or a complete and utter rip-off.

They don't appear to be rushing exactly ;) . It's more like a HTPC v DVD player issue. Those early BD players will be full of new & low volume custom components where I imagine the PS3 will be doing more in software using its powerful but more general purpose components. It's certainly going to be interesting to find out which works better.

[gandley]

PS3 has the power to do two 1080p feeds at the same time. So it has the power to deliver. It will have HDMI 1.3 spec. (which is an abolute must for any new HD player. If it does not have the 1.3 spec you will regret that, and will have to buy again.)
there is no need for expensive dacs etc with a digital transport. How exactly will the picture be awfull with a digital connection on PS3?. I expect the component out to be a bit nasty but then they will most likly cost save on the dacs.

What is more important is will the PS3 deliver 1080p24 or 24sf.. or hopefully like Pioneer both.


Also one thing i find funny is no one has considered that toshiba is taking a loss on the first batch of players just to get them out there. One thing there is exactly no difference between the internals of the HD-A1 and the HD-XA1(the more expensive $800 version) it even has the same bugs as the cheaper A1.

This tells me the A1 is a loss maker and the Xa1 may brake even, but just has a different case to make a few extra bucks.
Toshiba cant take a loss forever, and unless more companies sigh up so they can pull in the royalties then they are screwed.

Also the new HD-DVD players are more like mini pcs with there pentium m chip and a PC HD-DVD drive and motherboard

[m1ket]

judging by the dvd playback of the ps2 i'd avoid the ps3 for watching blu ray movies.

they could astound the world though, but i doubt it.

they wont make it too good they will be losing hundreds of pounds on each one sold anyway and im sure they would rather sell a profitable blue ray player instead

if not people may just buy a ps3 to play blue rys movies and not buy any games putting sony in a whole world of pain (due to not recouping their initial discount due to no game sales)

its an interesting situation that sony has setup... games console are heavily subsidised due to the thinking the money can be made back later with games/accessory sales

if the ps3 can play movies as good as a standalone player for 50% of the price noone will buy the standalone players and sony will effectively be losing $300 each time they sell a ps3

there must be some heated discssions within sony about how to price the ps3 and players

i will be waiting, i wil be getting a ps3 anyway, im sure the playback quality will be good enough for my needs.. msy also pick up the hd-dvd addon for the 360 asweel as its looking at being under $150

[RunDMC]

if the ps3 can play movies as good as a standalone player for 50% of the price noone will buy the standalone players and sony will effectively be losing $300 each time they sell a ps3

I sincerely doubt the PS3 will be able to play BD movies as well as a standalone player. That is not the intention.

i will be waiting, i wil be getting a ps3 anyway, im sure the playback quality will be good enough for my needs..

And therein lies the crux of Sony's strategy.

If you have a HD ready display (and look at the number of people who are buying one just for the world cup and for the Xbox 360), the quality of the BD movies you watch will still greatly exceed that of DVD.

You, and potentially millions of other people, will rent and possibly purchase a few BD movies at first. Your next purchase of a standalone player will probably then be BD, from the likes of Pioneer, Philips, Panasonic, Sony etc.

(You can apply the same logic to the Xbox 360 of course, but you have the added factor of people desiring HD-DVD enough to purchase an additional add-on device for the console...)

'Good enough' is good enough for Sony (it was as far as DVD was concerned)...;)

[psikey]

I will state now that BlueRay will win and its because its in the PS3. I have an HDTV which I bought because my old set died and I wanted something ready for next gen gaming & next gen TV etc.

Many people who are not avid film buffs are still using old TV's and happy with DVD. Infact I have watched many HD movie trailers or documentries via my Media PC on the HDTV and even though they look better its not the quantum leap in image & functionality that DVD from video tape was.


My (& many others) first foray into DVD was a PS2 and I think the PS3 will do the same for HDTV. Most people will not want to to spend large amounts on a games console & a HD player so will go for the all in one. There is also a massive world wide following of the Playstation brand. I had an XBOX 360 at Christmas and even though it is a great games machine I've still sold it on now the novalty has worn off (not loosing much money actually) and will be getting a PS3 for both its gaming & HD functionality.

Your also forgetting one major issue. Most techno's are men with many having wives or partners. Its much easier to get the wife to agree to one expensive gadget than two :grin:

[Craig_E]

I am intrigued how the PS3 could be bad for BD playback. We're now getting into totally digital delivery- so all the PS3 needs to do is pick up the movie data off the disc, crunch the numbers the same as any player, and pipe it down the HDMI? No need for deinterlacing, no digital to analogue conversion, and the TV will scale the standard 1080i/p being output- so what's to worry about?

I'll have the 360 add-on and the PS3, so no worries about a format war for moi :)

[Nic Rhodes]

Is that in just the same way we 'just' get the data from a DVD and squirt it down the perfect digital connection? Why is there such a HUGE difference in performance if it is so easy, with the PS2 and Xboxes being pretty well at the bottom of the pile in quality. Perhaps we ask Sony to market the PS3 as perfect sound and video for ever, just like Philips did all those years ago with the perfect CD system?

[paulm187]

I will state now that BlueRay will win and its because its in the PS3. I have an HDTV which I bought because my old set died and I wanted something ready for next gen gaming & next gen TV etc.

Many people who are not avid film buffs are still using old TV's and happy with DVD. Infact I have watched many HD movie trailers or documentries via my Media PC on the HDTV and even though they look better its not the quantum leap in image & functionality that DVD from video tape was.


My (& many others) first foray into DVD was a PS2 and I think the PS3 will do the same for HDTV. Most people will not want to to spend large amounts on a games console & a HD player so will go for the all in one. There is also a massive world wide following of the Playstation brand. I had an XBOX 360 at Christmas and even though it is a great games machine I've still sold it on now the novalty has worn off (not loosing much money actually) and will be getting a PS3 for both its gaming & HD functionality.

Your also forgetting one major issue. Most techno's are men with many having wives or partners. Its much easier to get the wife to agree to one expensive gadget than two :grin:

Beta-max anyone ;-)

[NicolasB]

Is that in just the same way we 'just' get the data from a DVD and squirt it down the perfect digital connection? Why is there such a HUGE difference in performance if it is so easy, with the PS2 and Xboxes being pretty well at the bottom of the pile in quality.That's mostly because these consoles have analogue video outputs. How much difference is there between different players that have all been SDI-modded?

It's also a question of processing power. A PS2 is really struggling to play back a DVD: it simply hasn't got the CPU horsepower to do the job properly. By contrast the PS3 can decode 1080p MPEG4 without even breaking a sweat.

[Nic Rhodes]

But most of the deinterlace, cadence, secrets type tests are geared to digital manipulations not the analogue stuff. Granted there are many DVD player that are great digitally but then screw it all up in the analogue engineering (my Philips 963) but the problems with the games consoles are much more deep and I don't think it is down to processing power, it is down to them doing the wrong things.

edit a good example is a modern PC, they all play DVDs with ease because the PCs are so powerful now (only need a 55oMhz machine for DVD) but most look pretty iffy out of the box when put under inspection. However with a little care and some software (making it a good HCPC), then the device now becoes much more capable dvd player that satisfies many, even the hard core.

[psikey]

Beta-max anyone ;-)

Didn't realise Beta-max was included in a gaming device :rolleyes:

Thought I'd made my argument clear! Obviously not

[ricki1980]

That's mostly because these consoles have analogue video outputs. How much difference is there between different players that have all been SDI-modded?

It's also a question of processing power. A PS2 is really struggling to play back a DVD: it simply hasn't got the CPU horsepower to do the job properly. By contrast the PS3 can decode 1080p MPEG4 without even breaking a sweat.


A 333Mhz CPU struggling to to play back a DVD! :rotfl: - that is the funniest thing I have ever heard in my life.......

[paulm187]

Didn't realise Beta-max was included in a gaming device :rolleyes:

Thought I'd made my argument clear! Obviously not

No beta-max wasn't included in a gaming device. The false assumption is that DVD became popular because of PS2! It is not the case, although it did have a hand in bringing dvd players into japanese homes as Sony marketed it as dvd players to casual gamers especially women. DVD really exploded over the last five years? Why - Cheap Chinese Imports of DVD Players! And guess who has signed license agreements with some of the major Chinese manufacturers? Toshiba. This generation is different to the last generation, its going to be more expensive to upgrade. last generation you only needed to upgrade from VHS Recorder to DVD. But this generation, its your TV, blur-ray or HD-DVD player and your home cinema for DTS-HD or Dolby True-HD (Oh and of course your PC for PC playback). Price is crucial and PS3 or Blu-Ray aint gonna be cheap. HD-DVD is already $500 cheaper, not to mention the HD-DVD drive for the Xbox360 at a rumoured price point of $100. Wait a year and there will be a flood of cheaper chinese HD-DVD players, its going to be a real tough battle. I wouldn't declare blu-ray (or HD-DVD for that matter) the winner so soon. :)

[NackNack]

I will state now that BlueRay will win and its because its in the PS3. I have an HDTV which I bought because my old set died and I wanted something ready for next gen gaming & next gen TV etc.

Many people who are not avid film buffs are still using old TV's and happy with DVD. Infact I have watched many HD movie trailers or documentries via my Media PC on the HDTV and even though they look better its not the quantum leap in image & functionality that DVD from video tape was.


My (& many others) first foray into DVD was a PS2 and I think the PS3 will do the same for HDTV. Most people will not want to to spend large amounts on a games console & a HD player so will go for the all in one. There is also a massive world wide following of the Playstation brand. I had an XBOX 360 at Christmas and even though it is a great games machine I've still sold it on now the novalty has worn off (not loosing much money actually) and will be getting a PS3 for both its gaming & HD functionality.

Your also forgetting one major issue. Most techno's are men with many having wives or partners. Its much easier to get the wife to agree to one expensive gadget than two :grin:
In your argument, it'd help if you could spell BluRay, to ever come across as being convincing.

Many people have widescreen TVs and recordable DVD players, my parents included. No, HD isn't a quantum leap, so what's to say that BluRay OR HD-DVD will win? If anything, it's likely they'll both stumble going from all the evidence you're giving.

As for first forrays into DVD, the PS2 wasn't it for the majority, it was £300 at the time when decent DVD players were around £150, so wasn't exactly a cheap way to see the technology, not to mention how horrendous it was in comparison to standalone players.

"I had an XBOX 360 at Christmas and even though it is a great games machine I've still sold it on now the novalty has worn off" :clap: :clap:

Whhhaaat? It's a great games machine, yet you sold it?! Christ on a bike.

[ianh64]

Why do so many people think that the whole AV world revolves around gaming machines?

[Nic Rhodes]

Why do so many people think that the whole AV world revolves around gaming machines?

It always amazes me as well, they seem an odd bunch who thinK the world resolves around them in their own private universe. The relaity is they a just another group of people and for me have had very limited influence in the success of DVD and I see no difference for these new formats either, if PS3 goes BR or 360 goes HD.:eek:

[danvitale]

Why do so many people think that the whole AV world revolves around gaming machines?

Because its an easy way for a format to land up in someone's living room?

Most of the movie companies site the PS3 as being a major reason why they have backed BluRay. It's an excellent launch platform.

[The Atheist]

Why do so many people think that the whole AV world revolves around gaming machines?
Because the next generation of consoles are touted as multimedia hubs that will feature at the centre of consumers' AV systems. The 360 has fallen very short IMO in this respect, especially with regard to not being compatible with HD-DVD out of the box. Once you add the cost of the add-on player that brings the cost of the 360 up to around the price expected for the PS3 - personally i'd prefer to spend that kind of money on the better specced PS3!!

I don't understand why you all get so worked up about a "competition" that hasn't even begun yet. And yes i know HD-DVD players are now available, but so what, if you want one go and buy it, if you wanna wait then wait!!

As for the cost factor mentioned by paulm187, I agree to a certain extent - to get the FULL benefit then people will have to upgrade all of their AV. However, with regard to the PS3, Sony have made a point of stating that the it will be 100% compatible with non-HD screens. And as most people will be buying it for its games the Blu-Ray features are just a massive (future-proofing) bonus!

Many people bought HD-ready screens before anything HD was available, is it such a stretch to think that people might buy a PS3 with the intention of upgrading their screen at a later date. And as for pricing being a key factor, have people forgotten that DVD-players were £1000+ when they were 1st released!!

Personally i will be looking forward to Blu-ray simply because i aim to buy a PS3 anyway - otherwise i welcome both formats as the competition will drive prices down!

Look what you've done, you've got me all worked up about this pointless argument now!!!!!!!

[Avi]

....

I don't understand why you all get so worked up about a "competition" that hasn't even begun yet. And yes i know HD-DVD players are now available, but so what, if you want one go and buy it, if you wanna wait then wait!!




Couldn't agree more. I bought the Tosh player not because I support HD-DVD or because I thinks it's superior to BD but because it's available now. Simple as that.

I don't have shares in Sony or Toshiba and I don't care who wins this war if anybody.

AVI

[po_man]

Because the next generation of consoles are touted as multimedia hubs that will feature at the centre of consumers' AV systems. The 360 has fallen very short IMO in this respect, especially with regard to not being compatible with HD-DVD out of the box. Once you add the cost of the add-on player that brings the cost of the 360 up to around the price expected for the PS3 - personally i'd prefer to spend that kind of money on the better specced PS3!!

I don't understand why you all get so worked up about a "competition" that hasn't even begun yet. And yes i know HD-DVD players are now available, but so what, if you want one go and buy it, if you wanna wait then wait!!

As for the cost factor mentioned by paulm187, I agree to a certain extent - to get the FULL benefit then people will have to upgrade all of their AV. However, with regard to the PS3, Sony have made a point of stating that the it will be 100% compatible with non-HD screens. And as most people will be buying it for its games the Blu-Ray features are just a massive (future-proofing) bonus!

Many people bought HD-ready screens before anything HD was available, is it such a stretch to think that people might buy a PS3 with the intention of upgrading their screen at a later date. And as for pricing being a key factor, have people forgotten that DVD-players were £1000+ when they were 1st released!!

Personally i will be looking forward to Blu-ray simply because i aim to buy a PS3 anyway - otherwise i welcome both formats as the competition will drive prices down!

Look what you've done, you've got me all worked up about this pointless argument now!!!!!!!
An excellent post The Athiest and i couldn't agree more with the comments.

As for first forrays into DVD, the PS2 wasn't it for the majority, it was £300 at the time when decent DVD players were around £150, so wasn't exactly a cheap way to see the technology, not to mention how horrendous it was in comparison to standalone players.

I'm sorry NackNack, but when the PS2 was launched back in 2000 - the average price of stand alone DVD player was NOT £150.00 but more in the region £300 - £350, easy. From a lot of reports that i've since read it has widely been accepted the the PS2 had a huge impact on the sale of DVD movies and did make the DVD format much more acessible and help bring DVD to most households. People didn't buy PS2's to purely watch DVD's - at the time, it was a fantastic added bonus. I am in no way suggesting that the DVD format would not have taken off had it been for the PS2 but the rise would certainly have been much slower.

[Jamesy_UK]

Chiming in a little late but i dont think we will see dual format players because that will come from desperation on the part of one standard and the other standard will most likely wring its neck and leave it to die.
Also the 360 is due a HD-DVD makeover soon according to several sites on the net (like the register)as well as HDMI cabling.

[Endeavour]

Why do so many people think that the whole AV world revolves around gaming machines?

You can't deny they have an impact though when the gaming industry now exceeds the movie industry in revenue. Most new game consoles end up oversubscribed, a situation the HD-DVD and BluRay camps would love to find themselves in. Kid power is already pressing for HD screens for gaming in my house, where as they wouldn't know what HD-DVD or BluRay was.

The key factor will be software availability. Floor space is expensive for retailers and even if you have launch advantage, you need to generate enough demand quickly to keep the retailers stocking the product. I can't remember the last time I saw a DVD-A in a shop. DVD took ages to get a decent catalogue in the UK. Most early adopters probably have a lot of early region 1's kicking around. I think that if the multiregion hackers had not been around, the format might have been another laserdisc.

With no regional coding and the effect of internet retailing and rental it is a different market this time and I think it is too close to call now. I think it is unlikely that there will be 2 winners and quite possibly no winners at all. I think I will cover my bases by fitting a HD-DVD drive in my HTPC and buying a PS/3. I can't see me shelling out a grand on a dedicated player while it is all so uncertain.

[Soulfinger]

The PS3 really is a huge factor with Blu-ray and with 100m PS2 sold, one that could win Blu-ray the battle. As mentioned the original PS2's DVD play back function was a huge incentive and I know loads of people that back in the day never had a stand alone DVD player but just used thier PS2. If PS3 takes off like both the PS1 and PS2 did then within a year Blu-ray's installation based would most likely be far greater than HD DVD even with the several months launch lead and many of those people will use it as their dedicated player. Of course Xbox 360's HD-DVD drive may have something to say about it.


My first DVD experience was with my PC DVD drive. I had my PC hooked up to my TV and watched DVD films that way before I could afford a stand alone player. That's another element that can push both formats especially these days that connecting a PC to your home cinema system is so much easier. If we don't get multi format systems then I'd most like buy a HD-DVD player and if the price is right a Blu-ray CD drive for my PC which I can currently connect to my HD TV via a component lead.

[Nic Rhodes]

I could allot easier buy into the argument re computers. The drive in the Toshiba HD players will plug into pcs currently and work. BR drives are also doing the preview circuit, but who has one?

[danvitale]

Of course, the irony of this whole situation is that the PS3 with its BluRay will be released in the UK before HD-DVD is officially launched here.

[Avi]

Of course, the irony of this whole situation is that the PS3 with its BluRay will be released in the UK before HD-DVD is officially launched here.


When did Toshiba make the official announcement re HD-DVD launching in the UK ? What about HD-DVD on Xbox 360 ?

[Kamanchi]

try getting average joe with his budget plamsa to shell out $1000 for bluray player. It aint gonna happen. Every thing about bluray is way over priced imo. Just look how much TDK have priced there BR writables at. :rotfl:

DVD only went large once players from the Supermarket were available for £30. cant see BR retailing for £30 any time soon :grin:

But isn't this the way Sony are going to get BR to the masses? Doesn't nearly everyone you know own a Playstation of some sort? If they didn't put them in a games console and subsidise the price a bit not everyone would get them. Put them in the most succesfull games console ever and there onto a winner. £300 for a ***** hot games console and a BR player. That's what it'll be and everyone will buy them.

[Noggin1980]

Of course, the irony of this whole situation is that the PS3 with its BluRay will be released in the UK before HD-DVD is officially launched here.

You don't know that. As far as I was aware HD-DVD would be launching in this country this year and with PS3 meant to be in November its anyones guess as to which will come first. No guarentees that Sony will manage to keep to their November date either. Once they set a firm day and price I'll be more confident. Untill then I'll remain sceptical.

As Avi says with the 360 HD-DVD add on to be shown at E3 that is very likely to be out this year too.

I'm sure everything will be alot clearer after E3 with regards to the 360 and PS3.

Edit- A quick google says that the Toshiba HD-DVD launch will be this Autumn in the UK. So has every chance of being out before the PS3.

[Nic Rhodes]

Doesn't nearly everyone you know own a Playstation of some sort?

I think my nephew might have one but he is the only person I know.

[Kamanchi]

I think my nephew might have one but he is the only person I know.

Well perchaps you should stop playing with Lebon and get out more....:grin:

[boksbox]

But isn't this the way Sony are going to get BR to the masses? Doesn't nearly everyone you know own a Playstation of some sort? If they didn't put them in a games console and subsidise the price a bit not everyone would get them. Put them in the most succesfull games console ever and there onto a winner. £300 for a ***** hot games console and a BR player. That's what it'll be and everyone will buy them.

Must admit I don't know know many PS2 owners but I guess I've been out of the games playing world for years now, I would suggest that the numbers of games consoles worldwide is small compared to the number of stand alone DVD players.

If I was into the PS3/XBOX360 market, I think I'd turn my nose up at he prices of games, if I need to backup files I'll do it online, I've no intention of buying Blue ray disks or HD-DVD blanks for that matter.

I do take my hat off though to those who exhibit blind faith in a product that hasn't been launched yet and as far as I know no one has demonstrated one with all of the bits squashed into the proposed case.
Suppose it ends up being just too noisy to be of much use as home cinema kit?

I've been involved with electronics for 30 years now, I've seen more duff product launches than I'd care to remember.

[Endeavour]

As Avi says with the 360 HD-DVD add on to be shown at E3 that is very likely to be out this year too.

I don't see this as an attractive alternative to the PS/3. I am not keen to have another device to find a home for, especially one that is likely to need another plug. The price is likely to be significant and Xbox won't be able to use HD-DVD as a format for game storage because, unlike Sony, they can't be sure their customers will be able to use it.

[Kamanchi]

Must admit I don't know know many PS2 owners but I guess I've been out of the games playing world for years now, I would suggest that the numbers of games consoles worldwide is small compared to the number of stand alone DVD players.

If I was into the PS3/XBOX360 market, I think I'd turn my nose up at he prices of games, if I need to backup files I'll do it online, I've no intention of buying Blue ray disks or HD-DVD blanks for that matter.

I do take my hat off though to those who exhibit blind faith in a product that hasn't been launched yet and as far as I know no one has demonstrated one with all of the bits squashed into the proposed case.
Suppose it ends up being just too noisy to be of much use as home cinema kit?

I've been involved with electronics for 30 years now, I've seen more duff product launches than I'd care to remember.

The original post that i replied to was one saying Joe Average wouldnt spend a grand on a BR player. But Mr Average will spend £300 on a games console that plays BR films. As for the noise .... get a long cable and put it in a different room....:smashin:

[robo989]

Does this thread get interesting after the first 2 pages...?

To answer the actual question at the start of the topic by the OP.

If your a skint kid in your teens, then don't buy a player now, hell don't buy a blue-ray player in any case, they ain't out, when they're out they're gonna cost far more than HD-DVD players and I'll be you any money the movie retards don't make any extra use of the space available on a BD.

I mean, even now they don't even bother filling a dual layer DVD. Instead decide to stuff it with crappy trailers, dummy copy protection blank scenes of junk...

Totally pointless, unless there was a promise they would use the space - but there isn't and defo never will be.

...Uhhh, anyway if I'm honest its a ridiculous question...

If your into gettin HD then your gonna need a HD tv - if you haven't got one then its pointless buying one, and if you can afford one the whole question is pointless...Then there's the fact the PS3 isn't even out!!!! So people can only guess, and the people in this topic seem to have less of a clue\reliableness than most people by the elementary nonsensical comments (no names ;))

Are you really into your films? If yes then get a HD-DVD plauer in a month or two when releases really start gettin going. Otherwise don't bother....

[Noggin1980]

I don't see this as an attractive alternative to the PS/3. I am not keen to have another device to find a home for, especially one that is likely to need another plug. The price is likely to be significant and Xbox won't be able to use HD-DVD as a format for game storage because, unlike Sony, they can't be sure their customers will be able to use it.

I'd have expected it to be powered via USB and not need another plug. It's also likely to be very cheap imo. If its small and attractive having it sit on the 360 or near won't be a big deal.

The 360 won't be useing it for game storage no and neither does it need too. The main reason the PS3 is useing it for game storage is for anti piracy reasons. I wouldn't expect many games to use more than 9GB except for maybe a few JRPG's full of CGI. The huge Oblivion for the 360 only uses 4.5Gb.

No idea if this add on is going to be worth it or not. If they bring it in at around 100 pounds and manage performance near stand alone levels then it seems like it will be worth the money to let you watch HD movies without spending a fortune while the war works itself out.

Not much point speculating too much when we will find out the truth in a couple of weeks.

[robo989]

Chiming in a little late but i dont think we will see dual format players because that will come from desperation on the part of one standard and the other standard will most likely wring its neck and leave it to die.

crap

All they are is a format - as in like a DVD+R or a DVD-R at the end of the day, the technology (besides the amount of space on the disc, and slighter different laser technology) is the same.

Its the manufacturers of the drives that would decide if they wanted to do a dual format player - NOT the people who set the standards. So its got nothing to do with desperation and what your saying makes no sense.

Like your dvd writer can write to DVD+R and -R a few years ago, it was one or the other. Nobody was desperate, it was just convenient and people bought them.

[Endeavour]

I'd have expected it to be powered via USB and not need another plug. It's also likely to be very cheap imo. If its small and attractive having it sit on the 360 or near won't be a big deal.

The 360 won't be useing it for game storage no and neither does it need too. The main reason the PS3 is useing it for game storage is for anti piracy reasons. I wouldn't expect many games to use more than 9GB except for maybe a few JRPG's full of CGI. The huge Oblivion for the 360 only uses 4.5Gb.

No idea if this add on is going to be worth it or not. If they bring it in at around 100 pounds and manage performance near stand alone levels then it seems like it will be worth the money to let you watch HD movies without spending a fortune while the war works itself out.

Not much point speculating too much when we will find out the truth in a couple of weeks.

If it can be USB powered it would help but I think £100 might be a bit optimistic if they are to release it using 1st gen technology to get it out before PS/3. It might be possible as it won't need to be a writer or support DVD.

I was thinking as someone without either console yet. If I had an Xbox already it would probably be an easy decision. A big pile of PS/2 games and a one box solution are enough for me to wait for now.

Games tend to expand to fit the space available over the life of the console. A few of the PC games I have loaded recently have started to stretch beyond a std DVD when installed. For example, games will want to use HD quality cut scenes to match the improved in-game visuals.

[Noggin1980]

but I think £100 might be a bit optimistic

I'm pretty confident it won't be much more than that although it wouldn't surprise me if we need to buy a first party HDMI cable at another 20 pounds or so.

It depends if MS are really trying to make a big profit from this add on (like their hardrives) or just useing it to combat the PS3 and to make the 360 more attractive (this is more likely imo).

The fact you can buy for less than 300 pounds (equivelent) a standalone HD-DVD player in the US means I think 100 pounds isn't overlly optimistic for just the drive. The standalone needs the drive, a motherboard, ram, an operating system, PSU, a processer (which is a pentium 4m I think) I'm sure the drive that the 360 will use will be the exact same NEC drive that the HD-DVD A1 uses.

[Nic Rhodes]

I do take my hat off though to those who exhibit blind faith in a product that hasn't been launched yet and as far as I know no one has demonstrated one with all of the bits squashed into the proposed case.
Suppose it ends up being just too noisy to be of much use as home cinema kit?

No chance of that is there :rolleyes: , for it to be too noisey you would have to stick several powerful processors in there and put on fans on them :grin:

[nwgarratt]

I am hoping that both formats do well. Unless one of the format quickly dies. I will want a dual format player. Then, I will get my Sony films on Blu Ray and Warner films on HD DVD. They are basically the same except for a disc capacity difference so, I won't care what format the flm is on. As long as the video and audio is the best, that is all I would care about.

If one of the formats dies, then Sony will have to start releasing HD DVD and vice versa.

[Games Guru]

Because the next generation of consoles are touted as multimedia hubs that will feature at the centre of consumers' AV systems. The 360 has fallen very short IMO in this respect, especially with regard to not being compatible with HD-DVD out of the box.
You have to be kidding?

The xbox 360 is basically a snazio with a HD games console tacked onto it, and is cheaper and more powerful!

[robo989]

Xbox 360? Multimedia hub?

:rotfl:

[Games Guru]

I tell you what though mate, HD .ts files run like a dream through my xbox 360. It does the job for me.

Who needs HD DVD or Sky HD?