Toshiba March 8 2006 SED

[Avi]

Toshiba and Canon Announce SED Launch Plan

8 March, 2006


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Toshiba Corporation
Canon Inc.

Tokyo, March 8, 2006 -- Toshiba Corporation and Canon Inc. today announced that they will start the first stage of mass production of SED panels in July 2007 and launch SED TVs in the 4Q of calendar year 2007. SED, the Surface-conduction Electron-emitter Display, is a next-generation flat-panel display that offers excellent performance characteristics.

The market for flat-panel TVs is expected to see continued high growth within the overall television market, with demand receiving a significant impetus from the 2008 Beijing Olympics and from the global shift from analogue to digital broadcasting. Toshiba and Canon see the popularity of the Beijing 2008 Olympic Games as an opportunity to strongly promote SED TVs.

Toshiba and Canon consider the launch of SED TVs to be a major industry milestone, a once-in-50-years historical turning point for the TV industry, comparable to the initial introduction of CRT television. The companies will maximize the technology's characteristics in order to resist commoditization and to establish SED TV as the technology of choice for high-definition, high-image-quality television viewing.

Forward-Looking Statements
These materials contain forward-looking statements. Statements that are not historical facts, including expectations based on assumptions and management decisions, are forward-looking statements based upon information currently available and involve inherent risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ from those projected or implied in any forward-looking statements.

[welwynnick]

That was seen as bad news by investment analysts, who questioned whether SED would be competitive given the rapidly falling prices of plasmas and LCDs:

http://today.reuters.com/business/newsArticle.aspx?type=technology&storyID=nT343273

"TOKYO, March 8 (Reuters) - Toshiba Corp. (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) and Canon Inc. (7751.T: Quote, Profile, Research) will delay the launch of a new type of flat television by more than a year to improve cost competitiveness, casting a shadow over the product's commercial feasibility.

The companies said on Wednesday they now plan to launch surface-conduction electron-emitter display (SED) TVs in the last quarter of 2007, compared to their original plan for this spring.

Toshiba and Canon formed a joint venture in 2004 to develop and make SED panels, which are thinner and consume less energy than liquid crystal display (LCD) and plasma display panels, currently the main technologies used for flat panel TVs.

"Price falls in flat TVs have been much steeper than we had anticipated," a Toshiba spokeswoman said. "We would like to work further on rationalisation of production and cost cuts before an actual launch," she said. "

[sooperscoop]

So, Q4 07 release + the usual delays + Europe gets it last + in time for Olympics = available Q2 08 for the likes of us. Grabbing a figure out of thin air of £5K to soak up all the early adopters who want to see the women's polevault in stunning quality = I'll not be saving my cash for this, thanks.

[NicolasB]

I've been saying all along that SED wouldn't be usefully available until 2008, but did anyone listen? Did they?!

(deathly silence, tumbleweed rolling past)

See what I mean?! :)

[Evil Engineer]

Given the rate at which both Plasmas and LCDs are improving two years is a hell of a long time.

It's entirely possible that by the time SEDs are available in meaningful numbers that the "old school" displays will be as good or close enough in picture quality terms that Toshiba won't be able to charge much of a permium for their shiny new technology.

It sounds like Toshiba are a bit early with their "fourth quarter" statement this time. They normally wait until the january CES before telling everyone they will able to buy a SED display before the end of that year.

A Full 10 months early. That's got to be the only thing about SED displays that's ahead of schedule! :)

[heath1s]

I was hoping SED would be aroud late 06 and in smaller screen by mid 07, Now I think I'm going to have to get me a projector - something to keep me going until SED arrives as a TV replacement.

There's no way I'm going to get a current LCD, I've still not seen anything that can upscale standard def broadcasts without artefacting not even a pana 500 or sony v32 (although they're the best). Not that SED will cure that, but I'm hoping DSP chipsets and such like will have become a cheaper component (and hence faster/better) by the time SED arrives.

I'm still managing on my old Sony 29" 4:3 CRT at the mo. It doesn't have any DSP and therefore the picture is rock solid. Fine for Freeview but I need something bigger for movies. :lease: don't tell me there something on the horizon other than DLP or LCD PJs. Off to the PJ forum then.

[phillfyspoon]

wow by that time plasma would of made leaps and be dead cheap

[El_MUERkO]

i had hoped to get get a true 720p flat panel for the world cup... not to be i'm afraid :(

i guess i'll have to pick up a plazma while i wait :D

[phillfyspoon]

I think this is to late

sony have there SXRD tv's coming soon that is 70" for 5k and full 1080p also for the 55"

plasma will get cheaper and better also

[BAN5HEE]

Man that sucks that technology gets delayed to justify costs. Makes you wonder what other technology is out there accumalting dust till it's the right time for it to emerge...

[satinder]

I've already decided to wait untill SED comes out before i buy a flatscreen tv, my CRT will surfice untill 2010. Even if my tv blows up i will not buy any current flatscreen tvs as they are overpriced and simply pathetic (to my eyes at least) when it comes to picture quality with freeview and DVD sources.

Sat

[Liam @ Prog AV]

what I can't understand is why this surprises anyone and who said SED is necessarily gonna be any good???

[Chippy99]

what I can't understand is why this surprises anyone and who said SED is necessarily gonna be any good???

You obviously haven't seen it. (Admittedly I have only seen reviews and pictures etc.) But its *astonishingly* good.

The problem with LCD and plasma is that they *still* can't do excellent blacks. Plasma is better in this respect, but contrary to what one poster above said about the improvements over the last 2 years, this is one aspect that just has not improved.

My 5.5 year old Panansonic TH-42PW3 plasma does "reasonable" blacks with a quoted 3000:1 contrast ratio. The latest models are still only 3000:1 or 4000:1. Many other manufacturers are still in the 1000:1 range. That is crap.

The other thing is resolution. Have you noticed that no-one offers more than 1,000x1,000 pixels on a 42" plasma? (and even that is a "fiddle"). 848x480 is common and 1024x768 is the most usual, even for "HD Ready". The problem is they just can't make the pixels small enough. Even 50" plasmas only go to 1366x720.

There is no way anyone can make a 1920x1080 pixel plasma screen without it being 10 feet across.

LCD is better, resolution-wise. But the black levels on LCD are a joke.

SED is capabable of 1920x1080 (i.e. full 1080i or 1080p) support on a 40" screen with around 100,000:1 contrast ratio. For watching movies in a darkened room, there is nothing to touch it.

Chip

[Liam @ Prog AV]

you obviously haven't seen it either LOL!! I appreciate it probably will have massive contrast ratios, but so do CRTs and they still suffer blooming, convergence errors, uneven brightness, low light output, are huge etc etc etc. I just think it's quite funny that SED has been assumed the best thing since sliced bread when very, very few people have actually seen a production model yet. We don't know what other bugs the technology might have to iron out yet. For example, SED is capable of zero black. So a manufacturer wanting to look good will be measuring contrast as max white divided by min black which means much like CRT SED technically could achieve infinite contrast. But at what overall light output or at what cost to colour accuracy? What can it do calibrated correctly? Just saying no-one knows, and this is just another hilarious thread pointing out that like it or not, plasma has many, many years left as top dog flat display technology.

[DRAMBO]

You obviously haven't seen it. (Admittedly I have only seen reviews and pictures etc.) But its *astonishingly* good.

The problem with LCD and plasma is that they *still* can't do excellent blacks. Plasma is better in this respect, but contrary to what one poster above said about the improvements over the last 2 years, this is one aspect that just has not improved.

My 5.5 year old Panansonic TH-42PW3 plasma does "reasonable" blacks with a quoted 3000:1 contrast ratio. The latest models are still only 3000:1 or 4000:1. Many other manufacturers are still in the 1000:1 range. That is crap.

The other thing is resolution. Have you noticed that no-one offers more than 1,000x1,000 pixels on a 42" plasma? (and even that is a "fiddle"). 848x480 is common and 1024x768 is the most usual, even for "HD Ready". The problem is they just can't make the pixels small enough. Even 50" plasmas only go to 1366x720.

There is no way anyone can make a 1920x1080 pixel plasma screen without it being 10 feet across.

LCD is better, resolution-wise. But the black levels on LCD are a joke.

SED is capabable of 1920x1080 (i.e. full 1080i or 1080p) support on a 40" screen with around 100,000:1 contrast ratio. For watching movies in a darkened room, there is nothing to touch it.

Chip

If all the above is true, why are Toshiba/Canon finding it hard to put SEDs into production? If production models are as good as demo models, then they'll be flying off the shelves.:confused:

[welwynnick]

Hi Liam,

I don't recall the exact words, but none less than Ofer Laor in AVS said SED left everything else in the shade at CES. That's good enough for me.

I always thought the downside to SED was the commercial viability, when existing technologies are getting bigger, better and cheaper. SED will have to run even harder to catch up and overtake.

Technically, I'd be pretty sure that SED won't sufffer from geometry and uniformity-related problems, and I think the only question mark hangs over the need to use a dark room to show it off to it's best advantage.

regards, Nick

[NicolasB]

you obviously haven't seen it either LOL!! I appreciate it probably will have massive contrast ratios, but so do CRTs and they still suffer blooming, convergence errors, uneven brightness, low light output, are huge etc etc etc. I just think it's quite funny that SED has been assumed the best thing since sliced bread when very, very few people have actually seen a production model yet. We don't know what other bugs the technology might have to iron out yet. For example, SED is capable of zero black. So a manufacturer wanting to look good will be measuring contrast as max white divided by min black which means much like CRT SED technically could achieve infinite contrast. But at what overall light output or at what cost to colour accuracy? What can it do calibrated correctly? Just saying no-one knows, and this is just another hilarious thread pointing out that like it or not, plasma has many, many years left as top dog flat display technology.I can't see any reason why SED should have less light output than plasma. It can't suffer from convergence or geometry errors in the way that CRT does, because it's a fixed-pixel display. Bloom seems equally unlikely for the same reason (or do you get bloom on plasma screens?) SED very much combines the strengths of CRT and plasma while avoiding the weaknesses of either.

[Liam @ Prog AV]

Hi Liam,

I don't recall the exact words, but none less than Ofer Laor in AVS said SED left everything else in the shade at CES. That's good enough for me.

I always thought the downside to SED was the commercial viability, when existing technologies are getting bigger, better and cheaper. SED will have to run even harder to catch up and overtake.

Technically, I'd be pretty sure that SED won't sufffer from geometry and uniformity-related problems, and I think the only question mark hangs over the need to use a dark room to show it off to it's best advantage.

regards, Nick

Hi Nick,

never meant to suggest it actually will suffer geometry issues. Just that until it's out on the market doing its thing, we don't know what we might come accross. With plasma will still put up with screen burn and dithering, with LCD we put up with a backlight etc. I'm not saying SED will suffer these exact things, but it until it is out we won't know.

Thoroughly agree on the commercial viability. On one hand will it get out fast enough and cheap enough. On the other hand will plasma and/or LCD have such a stronghold it simply cant!! Could be another betamax (or even another VHS...)

Liam

[Liam @ Prog AV]

I can't see any reason why SED should have less light output than plasma. It can't suffer from convergence or geometry errors in the way that CRT does, because it's a fixed-pixel display. Bloom seems equally unlikely for the same reason (or do you get bloom on plasma screens?) SED very much combines the strengths of CRT and plasma while avoiding the weaknesses of either.
Hi Nic,

as I said to Nick. I don't actually mean to suggest SED will have these errors, but that we don't know what we might come accross (if there are any issues you know damn well Toshiba won't be telling us about it until the thing is out!). On a slight aside, I wonder at what point the early plasma manufacturers actually came out and said "by the way, lovely picture but don't watch it too long or it'll burn in" LOL!

Light output on plasma is not as good as LCD. But conversley better blacks are had. I don't know how SED fits into this, it is a light emitting pixel (rather than backlit) but you still might get inter-pixel light spill, decay times, charge cycles etc. Ofer reckons it looks good, but can an LCDs contrast under showroom lighting.

For one thing who knows what might be sacrificed to get the technology out earlier. Or cheaper.

[satinder]

I can't see any reason why SED should have less light output than plasma. It can't suffer from convergence or geometry errors in the way that CRT does, because it's a fixed-pixel display. Bloom seems equally unlikely for the same reason (or do you get bloom on plasma screens?) SED very much combines the strengths of CRT and plasma while avoiding the weaknesses of either.
I've been reading what people said about the SED tv at the CES and have based my opinions on them. The current range of flatscreen tvs all have pathetic black levels when compared to CRT's, correct me if im wrong but isn't this SED technology is supposed to be a solution to that?

Sat

[Chippy99]

Liam: I am sure SED does have issues. Three I know about are:

1. Limited brightness (compared to LCD)
2. Expensive to produce
3. Suffers from flicker (like CRT) so 100Hz needed

But having said all of that, it does look to be absolutely *tremendous*!

Chip

[NicolasB]

I've been reading what people said about the SED tv at the CES and have based my opinions on them. The current range of flatscreen tvs all have pathetic black levels when compared to CRT's, correct me if im wrong but isn't this SED technology is supposed to be a solution to that?Well, yes: as I said it combines most of the strengths of plasma and CRT, so you get a fixed-pixel display like plasma (hence perfect geometry and no convergence issues) combined with CRT-like black-level/contrast.

Screen-burn will still be an issue, though.

[Dutch]

Even 50" plasmas only go to 1366x720.

There is no way anyone can make a 1920x1080 pixel plasma screen without it being 10 feet across.


Chip

You'd better have a look at this then!

http://www.avland.co.uk/pioneer/pdp5000ex/pdp5000ex.htm

Steve

[Chippy99]

You'd better have a look at this then!

http://www.avland.co.uk/pioneer/pdp5000ex/pdp5000ex.htm

Steve

WOW!!!

At first I thought "another idiot who sees 1080i on the spec list and assumes its got 1920x1080 pixels, when in reality it will be 1366x768".

And then I read it. My GOD you are right.

I didn't know this thing even existed. Well to be fair, its not availably yet. But my GOD how wonderful is that.

The really TERRIBLE thing is, I am going to have to buy it. I blame YOU! LOL

Chip

[Blighty_Boy]

WOW!!!

At first I thought "another idiot who sees 1080i on the spec list and assumes its got 1920x1080 pixels, when in reality it will be 1366x768".

And then I read it. My GOD you are right.

I didn't know this thing even existed. Well to be fair, its not availably yet. But my GOD how wonderful is that.

The really TERRIBLE thing is, I am going to have to buy it. I blame YOU! LOL

Chip

That's nothing, some company has a 50" 3840 x 2160 8 mega pixel LCD in the pipeline, they are planning to release it at around £6000 in october, at first for medical and government use and then to the general public

here is the link
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/emergingtech/0,39020357,39255860,00.htm

this is the manufacturers web site, they even have a 47" 1080p (1920 x 1080 2Mp) available
http://www.cmo.com.tw/cmo/english/product/product_03.jsp

[Chippy99]

That's nothing, some company has a 50" 3840 x 2160 8 mega pixel LCD in the pipeline

With the greatest respect, that's not very interesting to me. I think LCD is pretty crap actually and I have no interest in owning another one. (The Philips 23" piece of junk in my bedroom has wasted enough of my money thanks!)

What was interesting about the 50" Pioneer is that its the first plasma ever to have more than 1300 pixels across, and the first ever to be able to display a proper 1920x1080 image. A number of LCD's can do this already, but their performance in other areas is not good enough to make them a viable option, imho.

Chip

[Blighty_Boy]

you must admit though having a screen capable of doing 1080p using 4 pixel's per normal pixel is impressive, think of the possibilities like picture in picture wher you can have 4 1080p HD pictures on the screen at once, with no scaling