Denon Lip Sync Problem - Responce from Denon

[digitalfm]

I have lip sync problems with my Denon 1920 via HDMI (720p). How bad depends on the disk but it's there at least a bit on every disk I play.

Ok, after all the posts I thought I'd ring Denon. This is how it went :

I spoke to a chap called Edward from product support and explained the problem. He seamed friendly but quick to dismiss me - at least at first. He said that there will be lip synch delay due to the upscaling processing. Ok, I said, so what do we do about it. He explained that there's nothing that can be done as to fix the problem the player would require a larger memory in order to delay the sound. The 1920 does not have this hence the price. The more expensive players however do have this. Due to the lack of memory this isn't something that can be sorted later via a Firmware upgrade. I said that wasn't acceptable as the player should be fit for purpose. In it's current state the upscaling is not. He said if I turn upscaling off I will be fine. True, I said but I paid £250 for this DVD player because it "has" upscaling. He suggested that they would expect 1920 owners to have an amp with time delay to fix the problem. Considering I've recently bought a Yamaha RX-V357 which is a superb amp but doesn't have audio delay, I had to bite my tongue. He then suggested I pay £140 for a sound delay device. Again, I bit my tongue. I said I wish to make a complaint. He said he will call me back.

No return call so I rang back a few days after. I was told a complaint has been made to Denon in Japan, and will be contacted.

To be honest I don't expect to hear back.

Don't get me wrong the 1920 is a superb player and the upscaling is amazing (just try Shrek at 720p) but the lip synch is annoying and can not be solved.

So basically, Denon's view is put up with it, or buy an amp with Sound delay. My Yamaha will be on Ebay shortly which is really annoying as it was a Christmas present but I can't put up with the lip sync problems anymore.

[Kitjunky]

Well Ive just bought a new 1920 yesterday and so far on movies its been ok, stunning image quality. Im also running at 720p over hdmi into a sony KLD-S32A12 LCD panel. by chance i played the trailer for the movie event horizon (dont ask me why ) the lip sync was absolutly hopeless. i put the disk into my old panasonic DMRE85H (crap dvd picture but good hdd recorder) and there is no percievable lip sync issue on the same trailer. I then did lots of reading on the forums and found a file for V 1.23r2 firmware (was at 1.20 from factory) this has been loaded into the denon and i can say that although not perfect the sync issue is not as pronounced as it was and still no signs of it on actual movies .

The only other issue I have with the 1920 is that avi files dont fully fill the screen, about 3cm either side are black and the inbuilt zoom (2x) is totally OTT.

Come on denon uve gained a steadfast sony fan, do the right thing and fix these issues on an otherwise excellent product. £250 is a fair amount of dosh to lay out what with blueray just around the corner so the unit should work correctly.

Lets face it id be mad to blow £800 on a 3910 only to be made obsolete in a few months by Hddvd.

Just my 2peneth

Chris

[digitalfm]

Your a brave man Kitjunky! How did the firmware upgrade go? any problems?

[jkharmer]

My understanding of lip sync problems was that, sporadically, the picture loses its sequence with the sound, you then have to press pause. or stop, and then play again to get them back into sync with each other. It sounds to me like you don't actually have true lip sync problems, and as was said, this can be fixed by a time delay function on your amp. The reason that true lip sync is a pain is because nothing can be done on the amp to correct for it!

[Kitjunky]

Firmware upgrade went fine , no issues at all. just burned the iso image onto a good quality cdr (TDK) at 8 speed and followed the instructions include (with my fingers crossed all the time hehe)

[digitalfm]

Originally Posted by jkharmer

My understanding of lip sync problems was that, sporadically, the picture loses its sequence with the sound, you then have to press pause. or stop, and then play again to get them back into sync with each other. It sounds to me like you don't actually have true lip sync problems, and as was said, this can be fixed by a time delay function on your amp. The reason that true lip sync is a pain is because nothing can be done on the amp to correct for it!

Hi JKHarmer, pausing the picture does absolutely nothing to fix the lip sync. The second I press play it's out again. Trust me i've tried everything, just like everyone else of this forum and it's always the same. You're right the amp won't synch it completely as the delay seems to vary but at least it will cover the few milliseconds that are always there.

[dashfield]

Originally Posted by digitalfm

He suggested that they would expect 1920 owners to have an amp with time delay to fix the problem. Considering I've recently bought a Yamaha RX-V357 which is a superb amp but doesn't have audio delay, I had to bite my tongue.

I have to say i think that is disgusting of Denon Surely if they knew the lip sync was going to be a problem when upscaling they should but some kind of notice in literature or something. How can they get away with hiding it?

I work in the financial services industry which is very heavily regulated, we have to be very upfront about all our products, including the chances of them not working out. Why should electronics be any different? How many people on hear wouldn't have bought the 1920 if it was made clear there may be lip syncing problems when upscaling?

[digitalfm]

Originally Posted by dashfield

I have to say i think that is disgusting of Denon Surely if they knew the lip sync was going to be a problem when upscaling they should but some kind of notice in literature or something. How can they get away with hiding it?

I work in the financial services industry which is very heavily regulated, we have to be very upfront about all our products, including the chances of them not working out. Why should electronics be any different? How many people on hear wouldn't have bought the 1920 if it was made clear there may be lip syncing problems when upscaling?

I would have still bought the 1920 as the picture is amazing, however I wouldn't have wasted £150 on an amp that I now have to sell as I didn't realise sound delay was going to be an issue. What really bites me is i'm considering a Denon AVR1906. More money to Denon aye!

[alan_t]

yeh but at the end of the day...it still should be working perfectly.....some **** telling you to buy a amp is aload of ***** at the end of the day.
after shelling out £250, you would expect a player to work 100% perfect, coz i know i would...and coming out with crap like that is not acceptable.
sound like denon know theres a prob, and are washing there hands with it.

look at the cheaper budget range of hdmi players....do they have lip sync probs???
i know my £100 philips hdmi player does'nt.

[digitalfm]

Chris, can you post the link to the new firmware. I'm feeling brave. thanks

[Kitjunky]

here you go.

http://www.caranthir.de/files/denon1920_r2_123.zip

Worked fine for me but beware of the risks

[brandondanger]

any firmware updates for the denon 2800mk2? to solve all of the problems with it? lip since over component, freezing, not playing recorded media, etc...etc...



thought not!

[dashfield]

Originally Posted by digitalfm

I would have still bought the 1920 as the picture is amazing, however I wouldn't have wasted £150 on an amp that I now have to sell as I didn't realise sound delay was going to be an issue. What really bites me is i'm considering a Denon AVR1906. More money to Denon aye!

Tis a pickle, no doubt. I have the 1906 & 1920 combo and have to say am very pleased with it (although i am not upscaling as running through CRT).

It's just the covering up the problem issue which bugs me. Not many things annoy me more than bad customer service - there's just no need for it.

[Barzo]

Really glad to all who have talked about lip synch issues. Was considering selling my Panny S97 and Pioneer 575 and getting the Denon 1920 as a single box replacement. Really bad news that Denon did not see fit to include delay on the player - the Panny has it. Perhaps the high cost of the Panny S97 is why they pulled it from the UK (though why it should still be on sale in Europe is baffling).

[Treguard1982]

Ok. So if it's a case of returning your denon 1920 to get a refund or replacement, what would people recommend as a decent player at a similar price and quality?