Sky and Broadband connection problems

Hi there,

Long time viewer of the forums but have just joined up, so Hi all!.

I have a small problem, or big if your my parents, regarding the interaction between having sky+ installed and our broadband connection. Let me try and simplify this.

I have just added a sky multiroom subscription to our sky package and i payed the tiny extra for a sky+ box. Therefore we have one sky digital box in the dowstairs living room and now one sky+ box in my bedroom. When i had the box installed (22/01/06) i ran a telelphone extension box up the stairs to my room for the box to plug into until i had a telephone connection point put in my room yesturday (25/01/06). Now this appears to have created a problem for the broadband internet connection.

To start with we have the main phone line connection in the downstairs hall. Connected to this is an ordinary telephone. Off this connection is the new connection that has been installed in my room where my sky+ box is plugged into. This appears to be along one "line" of connections.

The next "line" appears to be as follows. Off of the main phone connection, again in the hall, runs a socket into the living room where the standard sky box is plugged in. Next there is a telephone socket in my parents bedroom, the telephone socket in the study appears to simply run through the wall and connect to this socket. The telephone socket in the study has a adsl micro filter on it and plugged into this is a normal telephone and the adsl modem. I dont know if this makes sense.

Effectively we have it in the following order:

Telephone socket in my room for sky+ box, this is then connected to:

Main telephone connection in hallway with a standard phone attached. This then goes onto:

Socket in Living room for standard sky box.

Socket in parents bedroom.

Socket in study that appears to have the cable run to the socket in parents bedroom to use as its actual socket, effectivly then just an extension. Connected to this is the telephone and a adsl modem.

Few, this is getting long, the main problem is the fact that when the sky boxes are connected to the telephone connections the computer will not pick out a connection for the broadband, i must say that that the computer connects through a wireless netgear modem. I have fiddled around with micro filters on all connections and the only way i can get the internet to work is if the sky box in the living room is not connected at all. The engineer who installed the box, when he came to register the two boxes for multiroom, had trouble dialling out from the box in the living room. He said a micro filter will sort it but it doesnt appear to. The trouble is i know sky ping the boxes to make sure they are connected to the same telephone line so if they continually see that the standard box isnt connected they will cut us off.

Does anyone out there have a solution to this problem, because I should be able to surf the internet with broadband as well as have the two sky boxes connected.

Sorry for the long post, im sure it could have been shortened somewhat but I am trying to explain the problem.

Thnaks in Advance,

Mark.

[JayCee]

Originally Posted by propagandabikes

Hi there,

Long time viewer of the forums but have just joined up, so Hi all!.

I have a small problem, or big if your my parents, regarding the interaction between having sky+ installed and our broadband connection. Let me try and simplify this.

I have just added a sky multiroom subscription to our sky package and i payed the tiny extra for a sky+ box. Therefore we have one sky digital box in the dowstairs living room and now one sky+ box in my bedroom. When i had the box installed (22/01/06) i ran a telelphone extension box up the stairs to my room for the box to plug into until i had a telephone connection point put in my room yesturday (25/01/06). Now this appears to have created a problem for the broadband internet connection.

To start with we have the main phone line connection in the downstairs hall. Connected to this is an ordinary telephone. Off this connection is the new connection that has been installed in my room where my sky+ box is plugged into. This appears to be along one "line" of connections.

The next "line" appears to be as follows. Off of the main phone connection, again in the hall, runs a socket into the living room where the standard sky box is plugged in. Next there is a telephone socket in my parents bedroom, the telephone socket in the study appears to simply run through the wall and connect to this socket. The telephone socket in the study has a adsl micro filter on it and plugged into this is a normal telephone and the adsl modem. I dont know if this makes sense.

Effectively we have it in the following order:

Telephone socket in my room for sky+ box, this is then connected to:

Main telephone connection in hallway with a standard phone attached. This then goes onto:

Socket in Living room for standard sky box.

Socket in parents bedroom.

Socket in study that appears to have the cable run to the socket in parents bedroom to use as its actual socket, effectivly then just an extension. Connected to this is the telephone and a adsl modem.

Few, this is getting long, the main problem is the fact that when the sky boxes are connected to the telephone connections the computer will not pick out a connection for the broadband, i must say that that the computer connects through a wireless netgear modem. I have fiddled around with micro filters on all connections and the only way i can get the internet to work is if the sky box in the living room is not connected at all. The engineer who installed the box, when he came to register the two boxes for multiroom, had trouble dialling out from the box in the living room. He said a micro filter will sort it but it doesnt appear to. The trouble is i know sky ping the boxes to make sure they are connected to the same telephone line so if they continually see that the standard box isnt connected they will cut us off.

Does anyone out there have a solution to this problem, because I should be able to surf the internet with broadband as well as have the two sky boxes connected.

Sorry for the long post, im sure it could have been shortened somewhat but I am trying to explain the problem.

Thnaks in Advance,

Mark.

Maybe you've exceeded the REN on your phone line?

[gjp]

Hi, I will try and help you.

I take it from your post that the BB and Sky worked before you put in this extension.

1) Does a phone work if you were to unplug the router and plug a phone into this connection?.

2) Did you have to wire up the extension, or did both ends have moulded connections?

3) Have you re-booted the router?

4) Do all phones sockets that have something connected to them have filters fitted?.

Please answer these questions I will reply soon.

Thanks

JayCee

Maybe you've exceeded the REN on your phone line?

-----

Not too sure what the REN is, guessing it is something to do with bandwidth? Could you explain please?

Mark.

-----

gjp

Hi, I will try and help you.

I take it from your post that the BB and Sky worked before you put in this extension.

1) Does a phone work if you were to unplug the router and plug a phone into this connection?.

2) Did you have to wire up the extension, or did both ends have moulded connections?

3) Have you re-booted the router?

4) Do all phones sockets that have something connected to them have filters fitted?.

Please answer these questions I will reply soon.

Thanks

-----

Thanks for trying to help gjp,

In answer to your questions, yes the broadband worked correctly and the sky box before i had the sky+ installed. My dad has complained once about not being able to vote on pop idol??? (dont ask!!) so something has happened to this, if you plug a phone into this connection straight off then there is the cackling of the signals from the broadband interfering.

1) Yes i have unplugged all connections along the line to the main connection and a phone has a perfect line. Then after plugging phone into the micro filter without modem, it is fine, and then with the modem connected it is fine also. I think this elimantes this connection from the problem.

2) When you say the extension, i am not sure what extension you mean so i will cover both, if you mean the new one from my bedroom, then the BT engineer ran the cable outside the house into a socket box in my bedroom, like an ordinary phone line connection.

If you are referring to the extension from the computer room to the parents bedroom, then the BT engineer installed a normal sphone socket box into the computer room, then looking at it, has run the cable linking this box into the parents bedroom where the cable comes through a hole in the wall, this cable has the usual molded part on the end to plug into the phone socket box that is there. This molded part has a single male plug on it, and two female plugs on it, could this have anything to do with it??

3) In answer to this question i rebooted the router everytime i tryed a different combination of filters. and i will continue to do so every combination i try.

4) I have tried fitting a filter to every phone socket and this brung no success.

Thnaks for again for trying to help me out. Sorry for the long answers, i understand how hard it is to explain things using text.

Thanks again,

Mark

[JayCee]

Originally Posted by propagandabikes

JayCee

Maybe you've exceeded the REN on your phone line?

-----

Not too sure what the REN is, guessing it is something to do with bandwidth? Could you explain please?

Mark.

REN stand for Ringer Equivalent Number.
Look under your phones, answer machines, Sky digiboxes (since they contain a modem) etc for a sticker with their REN numbers. Add them all together. Most phones have a REN number of 1.
I can't remember offhand what the REN value of a digibox is.
You can have a maximum total REN number of 4 in a house which means most houses can have three handsets and a modem connected at any one time.
If the REN is exceeeded by adding another product to a telephone line it can result in no or a very weak dialling tone.

[vileda]

Try unplugging everything apart from the ADSL Modem and one phone, if you can connect then it may be that you have too many devices connected to the line (gone over REN limit)

Then try adding one phone or STB at a time and testing the ADSL connection, the limit is 4 devices although you may get away with 5.

If you find that the problem is definately caused by having too many devices then you have 3 options.

1. Get BT to install a second line (expensive)
2. get rid of some of the phones. (inconvenient)
3. Replace your phones with Cordless Dect ones (only need 1 ren for as many as you like, and you could then make calls between rooms)

Hope this helps

[JayCee]

Originally Posted by vileda

If you find that the problem is definately caused by having too many devices then you have 3 options.

1. Get BT to install a second line (expensive)
2. get rid of some of the phones. (inconvenient)
3. Replace your phones with Cordless Dect ones (only need 1 ren for as many as you like, and you could then make calls between rooms)

Hope this helps

There is another option...a REN amp...you plug it into the incoming line and it amplifies it and allows you to connect more devices I believe.
Tandy used to sell them, maybe Maplin do.

[gjp]

Hi Mark,

So really the only thing that has changed it that you now have an extension fitted by BT from your main telephone socket to a socket in your room and your SKY+ box conneted to it?.

1)Try just connecting up the two sky boxes and the BB and see if this works

2)If BT have installed a new extension for you then really you should call them to see if there is a fault (most unlikely though) and they will charge you if they come out and cannot find a fault caused by themselves.

3) Check on the system set up on both sky boxes that it states "telephone line connected"


I have a SKY+ box, a SKY box and BT BB and I have no problems now, although when I first got BB there was a line noise on the telephone, so I connected BB to a free wall socket and since then everything's been OK.

I know it is very annoying when you get a problem like this, so I hope you get it sorted out.

Cheers
Gareth

[Biggles]

Try using microfilters on all of the extentions.

[elton-77]

Yes Biggles is quite correct. Microfilters on every connection is the right way to go.

I had a similar problem when I first installed BB and the net effect was that BB would keep interrupting and cease. Microfilters on all lines (I have Sky+ and Sky, 3 phones and ASDL) and these little filters cured my problems. Also one to avoid is adding extension leads to one another - particularly with Sky. It shouldn't give a problem but often does.

And just because BT added the extension, it does not excuse them from getting it wrong! - but my money goes on the microfilters. I have them for every piece of telecom equipment that is connected. It's a simple way of cutting down on interference. Get that right, everything should work okay and Dad will be able to vote once more!

Best wishes for a speedy resolution.

[eas4uk]

elton and biggles are both spot on with this - I used to live in a pub until September - on the one phone line we had 3 sky boxes, 1 dect set of cordless phones and a broadband modem connection, every telephone wall socket had a microfilter on it before anything else went into it ie microfilter plugs into wall socket and then eveything else plugs into that and it worked perfectly - it did take me a few attempts to get right though

An update of what i have managed to get done over the weekend. Ive answered all your questions however below after this.

I have now connected, my sky+ box with a filter in my room, telephone in main socket in hallway with a filter, broadband and telephone through filter in study which has to connect to socket in parents room. Sky box in living room WITHOUT filter, if i attach a filter then broadband doesnt work, if i leave a filter off then broadband works.

When a standard phone is connected to this line there is minimal interferance with broadband. ie, you could have a conversation with someone for say 30mins before you got annoyed by the slight noise of the broadband signal.

Could the sky box still dial out if asked by sky? or will i get clobbered for not having them attached to working phone sockets?

-----

Jaycee

Thanks for the explination about the REN. I understand i am on the REN limit with the two sky boxes and two telephones installed and then the broadband is trying to connect, maybe this is why it can find a connection but it doesnt seem to load a page or is very slow?

-----

Vileda

Tryed doing all possible combinations of connections and all with varying results, it was hard to pinpoint one particular area to look at.

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gjp

Yes, the only thing to change is the new socket that has been put into my room off of the main phone socket.

1) I will have to try this when i get home.

2) I dont think it is a problem with there cabling because i cannot locate the problem link to jsut that phone connection, i would see this as a possible last resort.

3) How can i check on the sky box to show it is connected, is it in the installer setup menu? Cant check right now i am at work.

-----

Biggles

Have tryed this but to no avail.

-----

elton-77

Like i have said, tried micro filters on all connections. It is an odd one this to me.

-----

eas4uk

Again tried all microfilters on ever connection.

[Biggles]

Its in your contract that the unit must be conected to a phone line

unfortunatly

I had to move my sky connection arround a few months ago and I have'nt yet conected it back to the phone line, but I hav'nt heard anything from SKY

You do need the connection to order movies or vote etc

[m40wen]

Hi

I think that the problem is your microfilters being plugged in the wrong places. You need a filter for every source of phone line - not for the extensions. For instance in my house I use ONE filter in the hall for the phone in there, but this filter also covers the extension running from this into my room. I orhinally put a filter in my bedrrom as well and thast when I had broadband problems. I just thought about it logically and reconnected the filter in the hall and hey presto it now all works. I think this might be the reason for your problems - effectively putting more filters than is perhaps necessary?

[Knyght_byte]

its a little strange, there are no hard and fast rules to what works, however it helps if you have a strong connection from the street........for instance we have a phone socket in the kitchen with a microfilter and a cordless phone base plugged in, then another socket in the lounge with a Sky+ box plugged in but no microfilter, then upstairs a 3rd socket running an extension cable in to my room with a microfilter that has my sky+ box plugged in to it plus the broadband router.......no dropouts, no noise, no problems.......

so microfilters are not strictly necessary on all points.......sometimes tho houses share a splitter box already which weakens the line in each house, this could be the case, this is especially so for flats, or the gain for your line might simply be a little low, its worth calling BT and asking them to raise the gain a little on your line, ask them nicely and usually they will, it doesnt cost, they do it at the exchange........

mind you, when you split lines to run to another room, its best to do it outside the house, normally the cabling used there is slightly thicker and carrying more strength, the runs inside the house are often the thinnest cheapest cabling the installer could get away with..lol

anyhow, hope u get it sorted out properly :-)