What happens to Plasma after SED/OLED?

[Stuart Kirby]

'morning all!

Just been reading through this article :

http://gear.ign.com/articles/679/679235p1.html

It made me think - what happens to Plasma once this comes out? LCD came out and threaten to be a Plasma killer but ultimately it's generally been a let down - for me anyway! But if this SED display is as good as it's claimed, is it over for Plasma? Obviously SED may launch at a ridiculous price, but what about 6-12 months after it launches and the prices start to come down a bit? Or will it simply take years for the price to come down enough for it to bother Plasma? (Of which you can get an absolute stunner for £2000 and less)

Stu

[lardy]

Noone (who is posting on the usual forums just yet) seems to know about how much SED is gonna cost ... although "$10000 for 55" at launch" has been suggested, still I'm pretty interested.
As far as my immediate choices go (wife's squinting at a 25" CRT) I may well buy a relatively small inexpensive stop gap and see how the market plays out, ho hum.....:god:

[neilmcl]

I think plasma and LCD for that matter have got some years of life left in them yet. I personally can't see SED screens being available in any kind of numbers for at least another year and even then it'll take a couple of more years or so for the technology to mature, prices and screen sizes to drop, more manufacturers being licensed to produce their own products. In the meantime plasma and LCD technology continues to strive forward.

[kourosh]

well if they come in at $10000 they wont be plasma and lcd killers:god:

[Stuart Kirby]

Let's assume that it was $10000 for a 55 inch screen. On paper they're supposed to be better than Plasma and LCD etc etc... the guestimate price for that 1080p 50 inch Pioneer Plasma is £6500... Obviously this isn't cheap! But it's still thereabouts what manufacturers still charge for top end Plasmas like that.

Except for price, which may come down within a year or so for example, what other barriers does it face? If the technology really is as good as it's made out to be, what can Plasma do? Just keep alive 'til the prices of SED comes down? What happens when those prices come down? Will Plasma have an ace in the hole or do you think that will be it?

[ash]

Will there be small sizes?
Me, I love big TV's.
But hey. The rest of England will only really want a 32" TV. So I think LCD will rule in that sector, and that secotr is a huge percentage IMHO.
But higher up, I think SED will reign as long as the prices come down, and Currys etc take them in.

[paul1967]

Look at the price we were paying for comps a fews yrs ago for the speeds back then, now look what you get for the speeds for the price 4x fast for 1/4 the price. I can remember paying over £500 for a amiga and thought that good value, oh how times have change .

paul1967

[lardy]

Hopefully OLED (which by all accounts will be around much sooner) will squeeze the price on DLP and exert effects on LCD, plasma and finally on SED - all of which can't be bad.
Personally, I'm holding off from the purchase of a large LCD or DLP for the moment (cancelled a visit to the Sony Centre today) but not holding my breath too hard - as the old Sony AE2 chassis is giving up the ghost slowly on me although the trini tube is still nice and bright after 12 years !!
must resist, must resist, must resist......but can't help reading this sort of stuff:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6874167
(SED thread over the pond....).

[mavice]

mmmmm......call me a cynic, but I would imagine that the same thing will happen with SED as any other new and better technology.

that is....... although it will be cheaper to make SED than LCD or plasma (or so the rumor goes)the manufacturers marketing dept's [spit] will target specialist buyers to maximise profit.:(

for example they could make only 55" plus screens and charge £6K upwards as nothing else will compete. (PJ's excepted).

after all, it is the same companies making the dosh from LCD and plasma sales....why compete with themselves in the 32 to 50" range.?

But lets hope not eh:thumbsup:

[Pezerinno]

I always thought OLED would only be used for smaller screens - such as those found in digital cameras and mobile phones and not for TVs?

[SeanT]

61 inch plasmas are still notoriously expensive anyway - so if SED can go big there will be a market...

[John Clark]

I always thought OLED would only be used for smaller screens - such as those found in digital cameras and mobile phones and not for TVs?
In the future OLED will be used as wallpaper, one click and you have changed the color on the wall :c)...:thumbsup:

[Reiner]

USD10000 is not much more (maybe even less) than what first plasmas or LCD displays did cost at the time of introduction, and they couldn't do 1920x1080p.
However when mass production takes off in 2007 then SED should be priced where plasma and LCD are now.

[CogPaul]

I thought one of the advantages of SED was cheaper manufacturing costs compared to LCD/Plasma?

[Pezerinno]

I believe it is CogPaul but as its a new tech and tosh/canon have little competition they'll try for higher profit margins.

[RockySpieler]

Even if SED is cheaper to produce, Toshiba and Canon still have to re-coup the massive development costs.

Without gaining some profit now, the corporations like Toshiba and Canon will not push back R&D boundaries in the future. You would not want Toshiba or Canon to go to the wall by not maximsing their ROI, the more electronics companies (even with Joint Venture's) that survive the healthier the situation is for innovation.

The global market is changing, no longer can development costs be spread over many years of a product's life. There are less markets to exploit with tickled down technology, on re-badged superceded Japanese or US designs.

Unfortunately the world needs early adopters.................get your cheque books out!

[TarMoo]

Both LCD and Plasma screens are due for massive increases in production in the next couple of years. See Sharp to build new LCD TV factory (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4602030.stm) and Matsushita to build plasma plant (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4598464.stm) news this week of massive investment in new LCD and Plasma plants in Japan.

By the time SED comes on stream in large enough quantities you might expect Plasma and LCD prices to have dropped significantly - maybe halved from their current level. This may lead to a stratifying of the market into different layers with LCD Plasma SED occupying various screen size bands.

[Jakeh1969]

I can also see Toshiba and Canon wanting SED to become a dominant force in large screen TV's so they'll be keen to bring prices down as soon as possible in order to ensure good market penetration.

There's no point developing a new type of screen if it doesn't sell because it's too expensive.

[AML]

I have a question concerning the use of SED (as well as plasmas and LCDs) as PC monitors.

I find myself using my plasma (which has a max PC res through VGA of 1600X1200) as a PC monitor more and more to watch HD programs through my PC.

My Denon 3910 upscaling DVD player is also conected up to my plasma through DVI-D, but it cant hope to match what my PC can do.

I was wondering what kind of resolutions SED would offer for PC use?

A recent Epson Rear Projector series that came out in Japan offers 1080p through HDMI, and yeat also offers UXGA (1600X1200) through VGA for PC use.

This is the sort of screen i need to have as I do plan to use Blu Ray and HD DVD through HDMI but i also need at least one other PC conection like VGA or DVI-I @ UXGA resolution for PC use.

Current "normal" HD Plasma and LCD TV`s dont offer anywhere near that kind of resolution for PC use.

Most only offer 1366X768. Some even less. These are not acceptable PC monitor resolutions.


My ideal display would havev: 2 HDMI`s @ 1080p and a DVI-I or DVI-D @ 1920X1200.

But thats probably not gonna happen for a while!

[pjskel]

Given 1080i/p is 1920x1080, then surely that same supported resolution for PC usage would be more than plenty for you?
I don't understand the need or desire to make what is intrinsically a 16:9 matrix perform as a 4:3 one, as it would if you had your way with the DVI/VGA input supporting 1600x1200. Which if it did, how would you display 1200 over 1080 pixels?
I think you have to accept there's flawed thinking in your wish and work with what makes the most sense.

[AML]

Ok then , a display that can give me a resolution of 1920X1080 for my PC then.

I dont think my thinking is flawed.
Many newer displays offer the double functionality that im talking about.

Why do i need to keep my PC on a sepparate display from the one I use for TV, DVD, Gaming?

PCs are starting to converge and in many cases they can do more than any one home theater product.

My Current PC, with the right software, can display a better picture than what my Denond 3910 can do. And I payed a fortune for that DVD player.

there is also scaling pjskel.
You dont HAVE to have your screen perfectly sinked with whatever you choose to display on it.
Face it, hardly any products offer a perfect 1:1 ratio.

[pjskel]

There's enough - LG7200 LCD, JVC DS6, Sharp - admittedly they need Powerstrip to force the GC into displaying the resolution, but that's the GC makers being c**ts and not providing those resolutions within the drivers.
Yes, there is obviously a vested interest in manufacturers limiting the PC input on the big screen as they would prefer you bought 2 items from them, but there is a major difference between using the PC for playing a few games on at a scaled resolution and using the display as a replacement for a proper PC monitor.
Maybe in time to come, once MCE catches on (if it ever really does though) then you might see more native resolution support, but as it is, slightly upscaled output for playing games solo or online is more than acceptable for the majority who will hook up a PC.

[colinwheeler]

Well, I know my GC supports 1366x768 (768p right?) and I believe that it supports 1920x1080 (1080p). Then the bloody GC costs almost as much as all my other peripherals (PS2, XBOX 360 and SKY+ box) put together, and that is not even starting to look at cooling, dual core processors to drive the apps and the small estate of memory to keep it all happy.:god:

I too really look for big displays firstly for my computer and so am really anticipating any new technologies that can help.

Please bring on the day when I can sit down on my couch, pick up my keyboard and have the whole opposite wall turn on into a display. This is almost achievable nowdays with a 1080p projector but hell, that is quite a premium to pay, as well as having the trouble of closing the curtains (don't want to ruin the view from my appartment anyway) and having to worry about roll down screens and lamps burning out, etc.

Roll on SED and OLED!!!!!!

[Phill1978]

i think LCD has almost flattened Plasma sales in the mainstream which is where the sales are all at. its been cheaper, picture has been better in some areas and higher res than same priced plasmas, in fact seems tha higher price LCD`s push higher res than ive seen on any sub £5000 ($7000) plasmas. its just limited by size so far.
LCD has crushed plasma, what with all the screenburn panic and the powerconsumption + heat issues

i think it wouldnt take much to end plasma prduction as its taken too many years to get rfeally hi-def i.e 1080p screens on plasma at 42" greater under £5000 (are there any ??) yet DLP seems to have come along and done nearly all things for all people at half the cost in half the time

just my opinion

[chambeaj]

Plasma has a few years of life left yet.

You want see SED on the UK until 2007 at the earliest - then only the larger panels.

Prices will not fall as fast as some think imho (your deluding yourselves). Add to which the EU is already looking to put a 14% import tax on all LCDs above 19"

LCD is still rubbish for decent black level detail and viewing angles.

50" 1920 x 1080p Pioneer plasma on the UK market from August.
£6K. Blacks said to be 40 times better than the 436.

all imho

[AML]

Its obvious that some people still like plasma and other preffer LCD. But the truth is that both formats have their issues.

I actually have both a plasma and an LCD. I use the LCDs i have for PC use and the plasmas for DVDs and gaming.

These days things like burning is starting to dissapear, but there are still other issues like lack of resolution and high power consumption.
(the heat generated by my plasma kills me in the summer!)

Im hoping that SED will give us all the best things of each format with none of the weak points.

The only issue will be price at first, but that will eventually come down.

Im also considering a Rear Pro made by Epson in japan at the moment.
Its a 1080p RP that offers 1600X1200 through VGA for PC use. (HDMI and Component as well as the VGA)

If nothing better comes out then ill probably be getting that as it gives me what i want as it is.

[hamster]

Add to which the EU is already looking to put a 14% import tax on all LCDs above 19"


There has been a 14% duty on TVs for years. LCDs have always been included. The only exception are monitors which have no tuner.

[colinwheeler]

There has been a 14% duty on TVs for years. LCDs have always been included. The only exception are monitors which have no tuner.

Not any more, now all monitors that have a DVI input are also included.

[bakerloo]

I think Jakeh1969 is right. SED technology has been in R&D since the mid 1980s so to recover the R&D costs means that in the early days SED Panels will be premium priced but I think the prices will drop after mass production has started and some of the R&D costs have been recouped. Whats the point of 20 years of development in a technology thats so expensive that you sell very few sets.

Canon/Toshiba will be investing massive amounts in production plants to enable mass production, they will get masses of kudos when SEDs are displayed besides Plasma/LCDs in the stores but the real cash comes from making it available to all of us. Theres more money in selling shed loads with a reasonable profit than selling very few with higher profits.

There are a few questions that I haven't found the answers to like Life Expectancy of the screens and their suceptability to screen burn but I assume they will at least match that of plasma screens although i'm hoping it will be better. The TV is on for quite a while in my house what with the kids and everything and with crt the total hours of use aren't a cosideration.

Still I can't wait to see an SED