If HD is 720p why are all LCD's 768?

[mammoo]

Hi,

Sorry if this is a really stupid post but if the HD standards are 720p then why are all the LCD and plasma screens I've seen 768px? Does this mean that any HD signal (xbox 360, Sky HD) will have to be scaled to fit, presumably reducing the quality?

Thanks

[Nic Rhodes]

The computer market is bigger.

[richard plumb]

for 32" LCD monitors?

IMO, its about time they sorted things out, but I guess scalers and manufacturing generally are now all geared to 768

[pez]

The computer market is bigger.

But my gfx card (as with most today) will output various resolutions, 1280x720 being one, 1360x768 being another, 2048x1536 being one of the higher resolutions my card will do.

I also dont see much of a market for 32inch 1360x768 desktop monitors. Ive tried to use a panny tx32lxd500 as one and the lack of resolution makes text tricky to make out when its only a few feet infront of your face.

Theres got to be a reason behind making 32inch etc panels at 1360x768, but i cant see how its because of the PC industry.

Upscaling sd material easier on a 1360x768 panel perhaps?

pez

[Nic Rhodes]

I'm considering a 32inch monitor, but this is not about size but resolution. The operative bit being 768 not 1280 or 1366.

[peahead]

There are a few 1280x720 lcd screens nocking about but they tend to be 27" not 32".

[pez]

Id say a 32inch monitor needs a higher resolution than 1366x768 to be effective as a computer monitor used on a desktop. You can quite easily make out a pixel on a 1366x768 screen at arms length. Ive used that panny (that has a VGA input thatll pixel match 1360x768), and wasnt satisfied with it being so close to me. In the living room on the other hand it looks great. I could see that resolution being fine for smaller monitor usage though, but 32inch is too large for it on a desktop (imo).

I cant see it being the computing industry that is driving these panels into production, or else we'd be seeing 1280x960, 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 panels all over the shop (very common PC resolutions).

So why 1366x768 over 1280x720 for living room furniture? you wont resolve a pixel on either from an average sitting distance on a 32inch tv (you will on larger screens, but then we've got true 1920x1080 screens coming in to sort out that issue ), and the scalers have to come into play for 720p feeds on the 768 displays, which wont give you an optimal picture.

Im at a loss, maybe something to do with overscan? or scaling sd material?

pez

[RockySpieler]

To make you want to wait and buy a 1080p HD TV of course....

btw that was the first question I had when I started looking at HD TV. It is pops up all the time.

As stated the PC market (1024x768) is the main reason, standarisation / manufacturing plants etc.

I have read here somewhere that 720p source scaled well (that's the problem) across 768 lines looks better than a 720 native display....less jaggidies.

[Nic Rhodes]

The reason why a 32 inch wasn't bought was the resolution, one is still wanted though.

Had a long discussion with LCD research guy and a raw panel manufacturer on this, and the raw building block are based around computer resolutions. That was their market and what they knew. XGA taken wide screen or the ******* of 1280 x 768 etc etc. You are thinking in terms of final product and this is not what these guy are / were into. They look at producing raw panels for people to use. It is only recently that there has been a 720p requirement, previous to this is was CRT which did all the HR stuff. They are more interest in laptops, LCD monitors etc. Now with the advent of HDMI there is a bigger driver and they will look at the market in a different light but at the moment, 720p is very new and people weren't interested in re tooling just in case things didn't take off. Pixel structure on plasmas and LCDs is the limiting parameter at the moment and everyone wants something different. 720p is just too new and only now a growing market. When I set up my 720p capable AV system only a few years ago, there were NO LCD panels / plasmas that could do this, even at silly money. The prejector market for AV is more advanced here as this satisfied the high end for a number of years now and hence many use true 720p (1280 x 720) but people can still interpret 720p as 1366 x 720 Go figure.

You need to wait for the market to 'grow up'.

[JamesG99]

I assumed the reason that 32" displays are 768 lines, was because the equipment used to make LCD screens was set up to make each pixel a certain size. So, 30" displays were 1280x720 for a long time, then new 32" screens were made with identical pixel sizes making the display 1366x768.

[pjskel]

As Nic said, manufacturers of the mother glass, have their core business in the computer display market.
Since 1024x768 panels are made for that market by generating multiples of the resolution in the motherglass, then from a production point of view, it was easier and cheaper to extend the length on the mother glass, so that when divied up, the resultant panels were 1366x768 - true 16:9 ratio.
From there, electronics can be designed to interpolate the data of a 16:9 1280x720 HD signal, and display that across the 1366x768 pixels of the TVs.
The bottom line is that it's all to do with the scale of economies, and there's just no real need to go reinventing the wheel again, by producing (on a separate line in the factory) 1280x720 panels purely for the TV market.
In-built scaling will get better as more processing power get added to the designs of the TV, which can do more complicated algorithm crunching.
As it is, majority rule and all that, scaled signals is accepted by the bulk of users, so those of us who may want nothing other than 1:1 mapping, will have to keep on wishing. Either that or invest in a better scaler (external) and make do with it.
Scaling by manufacturers HAS to get better, since native 1080 panels are now starting to appear, and 720 needs to be scaled to fill all 1080 vertical pixels. SD/DVD at 540 lines will be easier to do, since it's half of 1080, so two pixels equals 1 on these panels. Far nicer numbers to be dealing with.

[rapidone]

Originally Posted by mammoo

Hi,

Sorry if this is a really stupid post but if the HD standards are 720p then why are all the LCD and plasma screens I've seen 768px? Does this mean that any HD signal (xbox 360, Sky HD) will have to be scaled to fit, presumably reducing the quality?

Thanks

From what I understand (anyone please correct me) the 1360x768 standard was chosen before the HD tv standard arrived.

The manufacurers are trying to sell all the old 1360x768 srceens before the change to 1280x720 that is now required.

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by rapidone

From what I understand (anyone please correct me) the 1360x768 standard was chosen before the HD tv standard arrived.

The manufacurers are trying to sell all the old 1360x768 srceens before the change to 1280x720 that is now required.

I very mcuh doubt LCD panels are going to start appearing in 1280x720 resolution anytime soon, there's just no business incentive to do so. The manufacturers have no problem selling 1366x768 panels which can adequately handle a 1280x720 video format and the next step is to release 1920x1080 screens.

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by rapidone

From what I understand (anyone please correct me) the 1360x768 standard was chosen before the HD tv standard arrived.

The manufacurers are trying to sell all the old 1360x768 srceens before the change to 1280x720 that is now required.

Given that the 1280x720 standard dates back from before 1998 (when 720p broadcasts launched in the US), they've had quite a long time to make the change haven't they?

[bad robot]

Arguing over manufactured resolutions is a little pointless

Some of you are forgetting that HDTVs can scale a 1080i image this includes a PC desktop. Of curse not all dsplays handle it that well but just because ascreen has a 1366x768 panel doesn mean it cant offer the freedom of a 1920x1080 sized desktop.

Ive ran 1920x1080i desktop on my V40 (well actually a slightly smaller res to cure overscan) prefer MCE in 1080i because of the benifit of the larger resolution also for hires photos but can revert back to a 720p scaled resolution as its easier to read/work on.