PAINTS, Brews, and Mixes

[mavice]

This Thread is to post results using various UK paints and mixes for Painted DIY screens as the many US paints being tried over on AVS dont seem to have exact equivalents here.

Please post mix ratio's, and details of paints used and of course results.

I have several paints to try over next few days and will post results here shortly.

EDIT: please note that the mixes I am testing / trying are Semi - Transparent mixes intended to be sprayed (or fine rollered as a minimum) onto an acrylic mirror (as per Light Fusion concept) - or White gloss undercoat onto a wall or board if you want to go this way. Please bear this in mind when trying them.

EDIT: Please also read at least some of the AVS thread below as it will answer many questions on ingredients and application

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=598670

The 'Black FLame' mix has also now been revealed

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=630888

[mavice]

To start - This week, I will be mostly.....trying various mixes for use on an acrylic mirror (aka LF screen) to improve contrast and ambient light performance.

The tests will prob be rolled on offcuts of the mirror and when happy, I will do a spray on the full screen.

mixes will primarily consist of MMUD (from Mississippiman), satin clear eurethane, pearl opalecent and various silvers - all water based.

I may also try some transparent colour pigments and black pigments depending how things go and availabiliy

[mavice]

I have been testing paint brews on a white melanine board rather than my LF mirror at the moment. WHen I get close to a good mix, I wll then try on the mirror.

Firstly, the basis for the mixes being tried are taken from AVS forum where they are making great progress with ambient light rejecting mixes. (Good blacks in ambient light and better contrast in all light conditions)

the basis of the test mixes will be UK equivalents of

7.5 floz Minwax Polycrylic Satin
7.5 floz Behr Deep Base 1300
1.75 floz Red Oxide - (Delta)
1.0 floz Phthalo Green Blue Shade (Delta)
.5 floz Phthalo Blue Green Shade (Winsor&Newton)
3.00 floz Delta Ceramcoat Pearl Finish
3.00 floz Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic
1.5 floz Behr UPW
6.00 floz Water (to thin the mix)

This seems to be the basic mix being developed by most on AVS

My priority is to first identify a good silver as the Pearl white, base, clear polycrylic etc. should be fairly easy to find UK equivalents and are just 'packers'... I am making some assumptions here.

I am also missing out the colour shades at the mo as I am having difficulty finding.


So far I have tested a mix using

Anitas argent/Silver - The range

Gonna try this again as cocked up the mix - not enough silver added.


Sensual Silver - from B&Q
Pasha Pearl - from B&Q (slight pink tinge)

- Good contrast improvement,
- some hot spotting and sparklies.
- 15% white crush
No colour shift noticable

Chrome Silver - from B&Q
Pasha pearl - from B&Q (slight pink tinge)
- Better contrast (v.deep blacks)
- less sparklies
- more - 30% white crush. :
no noticable colour shift


I have also tried adding black and metalic black to the mixes to give a dark grey screen. The blacks were then superb even in ambient light but white crush was unacceptable so may not persue this.

I need more pearl and base before more testing as I have a couple of other silvers to try. Best so far seems to be sensual silver from B&Q.

anyone care to add paints they have tried ??
might save me a bob or 2 if I can rule out some.

[GaryM999]

Good effort So are you becoming the the UK version of MMan?

[jopper]

I've just had my MDF screen sprayed by a commercial car sprayer and he used a product called 'white on white' with a matting agent. He then flatted the screen back down and resprayed again. The finish was incredibly flat - better than anything I could ever get to using a roller. My only concern is it it too good? Does there need to be a textured undulation to a screen finish - your examples of spraying onto mirrors would suggest not. The PQ really is phenomenal - compared to the really basic tripod screen I had before. On that I could see the little pits in the fabric, on the MDF it's like a big flat plasma.

I was told that the paint used will dry like car paint - i.e. will be as hard as nails and will be able to wipe it clean like a piece of melamine.

[mavice]

Jooper

I think from what I have read about DIY screens, the flatter the better, as long as there are no reflections (matt finish)


Gary

Will I become the UK MMan ? Hardly...dont have that much time on my hands or dedication to the cause. I am having fun making brews though...

OK...Progress

I have done loads of tests this week using silvered sheets of A4 card from the range as test sheets (look like a crude mirror !! and cost about 10p each)


I have tested about 5 different silvers from different stores and feel I have settled on the one I think is best

I THINK I have also found equivalents for vitually all the ingredients being discussed on AVS at the mo.

I will photo all test cards at the week end but I am pretty amazed and optomistic about the results.

[mavice]

All my test mixes are based on the AVS forums basic mix of

1 part Clear acrylic
1 Part Base medium
1/2 Part Pearl white
1/4 part Ultra Pure White
1/2 part Silver
water to taste. (v.little)

A BASIC 5 PART BREW

I rolled with sponge roller onto the card mirrors - 2 coats was enough.


UK equivants I like as follows

Clear Acrylic - Ronseal Matt Varnish - B&Q
Base Medium - Acrylic Matt Medium - The Range
Peal white - Pealescent Medium - The range
UPW - Titanium White acrylic - The Range

Silver - Craig & Rose - Sensual Silver - B&Q


I tried many other silvers, pearls and clears etc with less success.
These proved to be the best for me and the ratios seem to match the US results which is uncanny.


As to the Ratios, well depends on tastes really.

Best left til I post the screen shots but in short...


Fantastic blacks
Very little white crush
more vibrant colours
Colour shift - None that I can notice
Ambient light rejection ?? - you bet !! (I was surprised - didnt expect this to work)

dont want to promice miracles here...life is a compromise. You cant get better blacks and ambient light rejection without some white crush BUT it does seem to be possible to improve blacks more than the resultant white suffers ie. a fair trade off.

I havent tried spraying or adjusting the pj to a full screen of mix yet which may well adjust out the minor white crush anyway.

[mavice]

I am pretty sure I could fine tune a UK mix to the nth degree

but to be honest...by close tonight, I think I have a UK mix (or range of mixes for different viewing conditions!) that I will be more than happy with.

[edit: this post was a bit premature in hindsight as of 12/1/06. Determined to improve the mix so that whites remain good even with the black and colour gains]

First tests were to identify the qty of silver required (Sensual !!)

The test cards ranged from 1/2part to 2 parts Silver

Second tests were adding transparent colours to try to get ambient light rejection. - measured in droplets.

screen shots will follow at the weekend when I have time to photo and my thoughts on pro's and con's of each.

The test background will be my PVC sapphire white screen


goodnight...

[Jbev]

Paint mixing is my forte. What are the US equiv colours that you are looking for? Or having problems matching?

If you can find out the code, name, manufacturer I might be able to copy the colour. I will also need to know the finsh that the US users have used.

If you can find me these details I might be able to source something for everyone to use.

I look forward to hearing from you

Regards

Joel

[mavice]

Originally Posted by Jbev

Paint mixing is my forte. What are the US equiv colours that you are looking for? Or having problems matching?

If you can find out the code, name, manufacturer I might be able to copy the colour. I will also need to know the finsh that the US users have used.

If you can find me these details I might be able to source something for everyone to use.

I look forward to hearing from you

Regards

Joel

Hi Jbev - thanks for the offer to contribute

its not so mush matching colour as type of paints. The US versions are posted above but are

7.5 floz Minwax Polycrylic Satin
7.5 floz Behr Deep Base 1300
1.75 floz Red Oxide - (Delta)
1.0 floz Phthalo Green Blue Shade (Delta)
.5 floz Phthalo Blue Green Shade (Winsor&Newton)
3.00 floz Delta Ceramcoat Pearl Finish
3.00 floz Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic
1.5 floz Behr UPW
6.00 floz Water (to thin the mix)

these are the manufacturer and name of each with UPW being ultra pure white (no prob matching there) - I used clear varnish for the poly satin (non yellowing) and a pearl acrylic medium instead of pearl finish.

the biggest problem is matching the silver - I believe that US mixers use a product called Radient Silver but not sure what this equates to in the UK. I have found Craig & Rose Sensual Silver from B&Q to be very good in my test mixes anyway so I am happy using this. Can you offer better match ??

any suggestions to UK versions of the above would be v. welcome.

[mavice]

took some pics tonight before I went out and will post tomorrow

test cards seem even better after drying for 24 hrs more - less sparkle

short summary

The more Silver the better the blacks. Above a certain amount, white crush seems to lessen !! my guess is that white is improved by a bit of silver glow into the transparent and white pigment in the mix

Ambient light rejection seems to work to some amount as well. THe silver does this to some extent but I was suprised by the ALR effect from adding the transparent color drops to the mix. It turns the mix a little more of a muddy silver colour but the improvement when the lights are on are very suprising


Photos tomorrow when I download from the camera


PS - forgot to mention that these mixes will work on any wall, MDF etc. surface although best on an LF mirror for added punch. Apparently just needs a pure white gloss base coat before applying the silver stuff to give a bright shiney background for the grey / silver coatings

ALso, before I draw any real conclusions I want to SPRAY my favorite mix onto my LF offcut and see if it gets even better when smooth, even, and with a good mirror backing

[mavice]

here are a few snaps but they are a bit disappointing (my photo skills arnt up to much):

they dont really show the full effect of what You see in practice but will try to take some better ones later
star 60w.JPG

This one of ROTS was first test with my base mix using the silver I have chosen. ...just to see if it worked. Conditions are beige room walls and about 60w of lighting. Card to RHS has slightly more silver hence slightly better black.


fox 40w.JPG

dream 100w.JPG

These two show a centre horiz stripe of test cards. Left to right with increasing amounts of silver. Test was to identify the ideal ratio of siver required to the mix (the balance point between deep blacks and sparklies / hot spotting).

I wanted to show some pics in total darkness to show improved blacks but cant seem to capture on photo. - will try again.

I will also post the shots of cards with the colour drops showing improved AMbient Light rejection compared to the just silver mix.

oh...The back comparison screen is a pull down Sapphire PVC screen - which gives a pretty good bright white image.

[kez]

are you using MMud in any of these mixes? i still have a full tub

[mavice]

Hi Kez

I too have a full tub a MMUD and originally tried mixes using this as a base, but wanting to start with a known qty of each ingredient and to identify a UK silver, I started from scratch.

to be honest the mixes using MMUD and just adding siver and colour drops were quite good too. - I will try to post some MMUD test cards.

Now that I have identified my prefered silver, I may try some more mixes to use the MMUD instead of UPW and pearl etc but the total cost of a UK mix using no MMUD only comes to about £20 for a BIG screen anyway as the ingredients are pretty cheap.

approx
clear eurethane - £5
UPW - £4
Pearl - £4
Base - £5
SIlver - £3


what do you think of the scren shots ? - I am still mulling over all my test cards to identify which mix I prefer under all conditions.

The best seem to have alot of silver giving great blacks but suffer from some hot spotting. When I have more time I will try some other mixes to reduce this whilst mainting the blacks. - suggestions welcomed.

[mavice]

Kez

forgot to mention that Gary used his MMUD on his screen and added some silver. PM him for his mix ratios and results

Found my MMUD test cards. Best results seem to be with

3 parts MMUD
1 Part Sensual Silver (B&Q)

Gave good black and contrast improvement with very little white crush.
more silver (up to 3 parts) improved blacks further but I found the white crush starting to be too much.

I also added some colour drops which improved ambient light contrast but with a slight reduction in white brightness.

You could always try some mixes yourself using the MMUD as the base.