Forget plasma or LCD: SED is getting closer

[Sulis]

Canon recently demo'd their latest SED screens - and they look like they'll destroy both plasma and LCD. Check it out here: http://www.behardware.com/articles/593-1/close-encounters-of-the-third-kind-sed.html

They're expected end of 2006/early 2007, at the same price range as plasmas. That's my PV500 replacement sorted, then.

[acrmorris]

Contrast quoted at 100,000:1 :eek: Super Zowee!

[gettingthefear]

the launch keep getting pushed back - was supposed to be march 2006. as you say, though, no point going out tomorrow and splashing £4000 on a 50" plasma with these bad boys just round the corner.

[GAmbrose]

Tell that to my credit card.

Gary A

[madshi]

Do you want to buy the first models of a new technology? I wouldn't recommend that, unless you want to fight with all the hinks and kinks usually found in first generation devices. Real mass production is supposed to begin only in 2007. So I think the first good point in time where you can buy SED without fearing countless problems would be mid/end 2007. But then there are still questions like: Which refresh rate do the displays support internally? Will SED allow 50Hz or will they internally do 60Hz and frame rate convert 50Hz? Also I've read that SED still has to fight with reflections which are said to be worse than plasma. However, if they get it all right (including good support for us Europeans), SED might really be a very good thing! SED Inc plans to show first production 55" models on CES (5.-8. January, Las Vegas). Maybe we'll hear some more infos by then...

[gettingthefear]

Do you want to buy the first models of a new technology? I wouldn't recommend that, unless you want to fight with all the hinks and kinks usually found in first generation devices. Real mass production is supposed to begin only in 2007. So I think the first good point in time where you can buy SED without fearing countless problems would be mid/end 2007. But then there are still questions like: Which refresh rate do the displays support internally? Will SED allow 50Hz or will they internally do 60Hz and frame rate convert 50Hz? Also I've read that SED still has to fight with reflections which are said to be worse than plasma. However, if they get it all right (including good support for us Europeans), SED might really be a very good thing! SED Inc plans to show first production 55" models on CES (5.-8. January, Las Vegas). Maybe we'll hear some more infos by then...

you're right in that i won't rush into being a guinea-pig for the manufacturers - i saw my brother get stung with laser disc and the like. i intend buying my first 'big telly' in the january sales (probably a panny 42pe50 - which will do me fine until HD broadcasts are the norm rather than the exception) and see how SED manages mass production without losing QC. if the technology seems to work, i'll get one in two/three years time and stick the panny in the spare room.

[NicolasB]

Personally I'm not expecting SED to be affordable until 2008 rather than 2007.

[JagoPlasma]

1920 x 1080 x 3 = 6.2 million of guns..... would love to see their dead pixel/gun policy

[acrmorris]

Hmm. Makes DLP hinges on chips seem quite low tech.

I sense an upgrade to the pv500 in due course. Time to start sweet talking the wife. No time like the present for some early groundwork :grin: :grin: :grin:

[johnny-17]

I'm quite sure that SED will 'cost' when it first arrives. Why sell the latest tech cheap when people will pay a premium to have it 'first'. Just look at how Panasonic are keeping their HD range high at the moment. BTW gettingthefear - not sure if you will see any major bargains after xmas - have you seen the current prices (very cheap already!!!!!). Recently bought 37"PE50 +ped+DMRES20D for £1299 (incl 5 dvd ram's & good component leads) Screen cost me £900 in real terms. Plus a BIG tv to watch for now & hols. I almost bought this last year but noticed that best prices were usually the same just before xmas and in the sales.

[Koing]

To really emphasize the monitor advantages, Canon organised a test room with the SED placed between a plasma and a LCD TV. All of them where in full HD (1920x1080 pixels) and had 36” diagonal. The LCD almost certainly included an IPS panel, and not one of the best…


Hmmmm for a start their isn't a 36" Plasma that displays full HD at 1920x1080. Not even a 42" and not a 50" in the shops either...

Can the writer not see this GLARING mistake?! OR does he have new tech that not anyone here has heard of?

Koing

[GASWATKINS]

Yep
all sounds great
but we all want a TV for this Xmas !!!

[AQU4RIUS]

theres always the next best thing. if you always wait you'll never buy anything!

[MichielO]

I would not get too enthusiastic yet. SED has been postponed various times and originally Toshiba (the other brand involved in SED, together with Canon) has mentioned introduction-prices (for 50 inch) of 10.000-15.000 Euro. That would not surprise me, since new products are always expensive af first. ;)
Also, I went to the IFA at Berlin where Toshiba promised to show SED to the public. Well, they did not! Only friends and business-relations of Toshiba were allowed to have a look behind a closed door, not the public. Toshiba admitted that the original announcement was wrong; they were not ready to show it to the public. I think it is not going as expected with SED, otherwise they would have shown it, especially since they were expected on the (Japan) market in 2006. At a Japan exhibition, they only showed a 32 (?) inch model, not a 50 inch.
So, my guess is that it will take another year at least and probably more expensive than plasma, when it will finally be available...

[gettingthefear]

I'm quite sure that SED will 'cost' when it first arrives. Why sell the latest tech cheap when people will pay a premium to have it 'first'. Just look at how Panasonic are keeping their HD range high at the moment. BTW gettingthefear - not sure if you will see any major bargains after xmas - have you seen the current prices (very cheap already!!!!!). Recently bought 37"PE50 +ped+DMRES20D for £1299 (incl 5 dvd ram's & good component leads) Screen cost me £900 in real terms. Plus a BIG tv to watch for now & hols. I almost bought this last year but noticed that best prices were usually the same just before xmas and in the sales.

johnny, you're right in that i don't think prices will fall much further for the pe50 models given that they have already come down substantially over the last year. however, there are 3 good reasons for delaying my purchase:

1. the january sales are usually pretty good in france - between 10 and 20% off on average
2. we are having some building work done at the moment so no point ruining a new telly with all that dust
3. we wil be in the uk over the festive period so, even if we bought now, we won't really get the use of it until january

hopefully, by then the price for the 42pe50 will be quite a bit below the current 1900€ mark.

[Thekop]

theres always the next best thing. if you always wait you'll never buy anything!

One of the most sensible posts I've read in a while. Reminds me of all the hype surrounding HD-DVD / Blue Ray formats, and people being put off buying HD ready plasmas and top notch DVD players :grin:
... To many are looking over the horizon and missing out on what's going on now... :suicide:

[Sulis]

Yes, if you need a plasma now, buy it. However, if PQ is really important to you, plan on switching to the SED forum in 2 years' time! The technology's also relatively cheap to produce, so they can match plasma prices while still making a hefty profit.

[madshi]

The technology's also relatively cheap to produce, so they can match plasma prices while still making a hefty profit.
In the long run SED might be cheaper to produce than Plasma (although we don't know whether Plasma won't improve in that aspect!). In the short run however, Plasma is cheaper to produce, simply because production costs decrease very much with production volume. Plasma production is tried and proven and yields are quite good these days. SED still has to take a lot of hurdles before we can really say how production costs will look like.

If we just look at how much production capacity SED will have in 2007, we can clearly see that they simply cannot produce enough SED panels to bring Plasma into trouble in 2007. So SED Inc would be stupid to take lower prices than Plasma. They will find the price point at which demand and supply meet and provided that SED displays will really be as good as they are hyped to be, that price point will very likely be above plasma prices. Maybe that will change once SED Inc has enough production capacity to really fight Plasma (and LCD and RPTV), but you can't build up production capacity in a few days!

[gnikolaidis]

It might be the case that you will never see SED screens on the market, since the technology used is not the easiest, or most cost effective one, to manufacture in mass quantities as suggested. Take a look at an older forum entry (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242124) regarding the alternative technology using an array of electron guns manufactured with nanotechnology. This is a much promising solution, especially with regard to the manufacturing costs involved. Working prototypes have been already developed by Samsung and other independent developers.

[sharper]

Looking forward to seeing how things pan out. With the apparent build quality of plasma getting poorer as price becomes so important. I think a 2nd or 3rd generation SED set could be a good buy until the next big/thin thing.

[gettingthefear]

johnny, you're right in that i don't think prices will fall much further for the pe50 models given that they have already come down substantially over the last year. however, there are 3 good reasons for delaying my purchase:

1. the january sales are usually pretty good in france - between 10 and 20% off on average
2. we are having some building work done at the moment so no point ruining a new telly with all that dust
3. we wil be in the uk over the festive period so, even if we bought now, we won't really get the use of it until january

hopefully, by then the price for the 42pe50 will be quite a bit below the current 1900€ mark.

bump!
finally gone and done it - got a panny th42 pe50 (or pa50) as it's called in france in the jan sales. price was 1950€ minus 20% discount plus 349€ for the 5 year guarantee making it 1908€ all-in for the telly plus pedestal stand plus delivery and installation. it comes on thursday afternoon - can't wait! :grin:

[welwynnick]

Just to whet your appetites, here's a brief comment about the SED demos at CES last week. This is by one of the highly respected moderators over at AVS, so it's a very credible opinion.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6930118&&#post6930118

"Of course, the SED displays were so much better than anything else at the show, PQ wise, that they overshadowed everything that followed afterwards. They should have had a big warning - make sure you see this at the end of the show, because it makes everything else look like crap... "

Can't wait, Nick

[AudioSlim]

1920 x 1080 x 3 = 6.2 million of guns..... would love to see their dead pixel/gun policy

I believe the idea is that you just replace a block of pixels or so the idea goes.
How that actually manifests itself or when is a different matter as you cant see it being a DIY task at launch can you. Still at least it potentially could be fixed wihout having to replace the whole panel which equals cheaper to fix doesnt it.

Slim

[marty2005]

you won't see SED for a while yet because they have to sell their current stock of lcd and plasma tv's.

As SED is better so the price will be more expensive.

Be the same situation as crt and plasma/lcd.

To be honust I'm scared to buy a tv and I've been looking for a year now.

Either it isn't digital, hasn't got enough hdmi inputs or has burnin, rainbow or too expensive or can not be bought yet.

Plasma/lcd/dlp.

I want a 50" tv to hang on wall, more digital inputs rather than analogue. i.e. 3 hdmi since it replaces scart.
Digital tuner 'cause of the big switch off.

Did I mension I want 1080p - I know 1080p is years away for broadcast but I want to be able to input a higher pc resolution.

I'd go out tomorrow and get the Pioneer 50xde but I'm scared It might get burned in if I pause the dvd/tv and go to the toilet for more than 5minutes.

Only current tv that has no problems I can think of is lcd but the price is a lot higher and I haven't seen a 50" one yet. You hear about samung bringing out 87" and 100" lcds but why don't they bring out a 50" version.

I wish I was doctor who, I'd jump forward two years and bring home a "proper" tv.

[welwynnick]

you won't see SED for a while yet because they have to sell their current stock of lcd and plasma tv's.Hadn't you noticed that Toshiba have stopped making plasmas....?

Nick

[Lyris]

you're right in that i won't rush into being a guinea-pig for the manufacturers - i saw my brother get stung with laser disc
He felt like he'd been "stung" by Laser Disc? How is getting complete versions of movies in extremely high quality during the VHS era getting "stung"?

[geeWcee]

I'd love to wait for SED, but they have been in production for years now and still they remain vapourware...

And even when they do come out, us mere mortals on an average wage wont get a look in....Not that you'd want a first gen panel.
Lets hope my PW7 holds out till 2008.

[MattB]

@ Nick, I don't think Toshiba ever did make plasmas AFAIK theirs were all re-badged Panasonics.

I don't see how pixels could be replaced in a panel but one benefit of the FED technology was that it had many (hundreds?) of micro emitters per pixel so that there was redundancy and potentially much better yield because they did not all have to work. Not sure if this applies to the current xED panels.

[gettingthefear]

He felt like he'd been "stung" by Laser Disc? How is getting complete versions of movies in extremely high quality during the VHS era getting "stung"?

he probably didn't think he was being stung at all, since he had the kudos of being the first/only person he knew to have one and that's fairly important to him. from my point of view, he paid a vast sum of money for something that played discs the size of LPs and which you had to turn over half-way through the film, like having the intermission in the 'good old days' of cinema. that's fine if you can persuade the missus to put on a french-maid's outfit and walk round with a tray of choc-ices and kiora but not much good otherwise. plus they were obsolete in no time. he bought a betamax too and probably a DAT player.........:suicide:

[welwynnick]

Do you think he will buy an HD-DVD player?

[sanderton]

I'd love to wait for SED, but they have been in production for years now and still they remain vapourware...

And even when they do come out, us mere mortals on an average wage wont get a look in....Not that you'd want a first gen panel.
Lets hope my PW7 holds out till 2008.

In production by whom?

The first SED TVs are due out in March from Toshiba. Admittedly the 55-inch 1080p sets they are promising were not at CES, but 37-inch 720p sets were - and my word they were good.

Absolutely stunning PQ, amazing contrast and ability to resolve detail in highlights and shadows, and rock solid movement and panning. They are lovely.

[madshi]

The first SED TVs are due out in March from Toshiba.
I guess that's a bit optimistic. But even if that's true, those TVs will be available in Japan, only. The rest of the world is not expected to see SED until 2007. I'm holding my breath, though, since I'm having great hopes for SED. Hopefully they'll deliver in 2007, as they're claiming right now.

[sanderton]

I guess that's a bit optimistic. But even if that's true, those TVs will be available in Japan, only. The rest of the world is not expected to see SED until 2007. I'm holding my breath, though, since I'm having great hopes for SED. Hopefully they'll deliver in 2007, as they're claiming right now.

Maybe I dreamt March; I saw the SED TV on the last day of the show and it was all a bit of a blur at that point...

[jacking]

Prototype demos suggest that Europes 50hz display rates will cause the same flicker problems as found in regular CRT TVs (on which the SED technology is founded). Increasing to 100hz could introduce smearing nasties, but I'm sure the Tosh techies are working on it. Read the article by Steve May in issue 303 (Feb) of "What Video and Widescreen TV"

[madshi]

Prototype demos suggest that Europes 50hz display rates will cause the same flicker problems as found in regular CRT TVs (on which the SED technology is founded). Increasing to 100hz could introduce smearing nasties, but I'm sure the Tosh techies are working on it. Read the article by Steve May in issue 303 (Feb) of "What Video and Widescreen TV"
German "AudioVision" home cinema journal claims that European models will use 100Hz.

[jacking]

Which should resolve the flicker problem of course.

[welwynnick]

Flicker is irrelevent, these displays are not scanned like CRTs. They are progressive like LCDs, which do nopt flicker even if fed 24 or 25 Hz.

Nick

[madshi]

Flicker is irrelevent, these displays are not scanned like CRTs. They are progressive like LCDs, which do nopt flicker even if fed 24 or 25 Hz.

Nick
Sorry Nick, but that's wrong. SED screens are scanned line by line. This was clearly stated by the article in "AudioVision". This line by line scanning is done to remove the "sample-and-hold" motion smear effect that you get with sample and hold displays like LCD. The line by line scanning is also the reason why you see darker horizontal bars on photos of SED screens.

[chambeaj]

Both of you seem to be getting mixed up with the exact definition of progressive!

And a SED panel (being an emissive display technology based in phoshor) in progressive mode at 25Hz would indeed flicker.

[madshi]

Both of you seem to be getting mixed up with the exact definition of progressive!

And a SED panel (being an emissive display technology based in phoshor) in progressive mode at 25Hz would indeed flicker.
Where exactly did I mix up something?

[hamster]

Saw it at CES. It looked fantastic, but was in a dimly lit room so I suspect that the contrast is not great. Also, there was noticeable backscattering of light. But motion was just fantastic.

I suspect that the real issues are:
1. What's the life of the thing?
2. Can they make it cheap enough?
And that has to be in an old CRT factory. Otherwise they just won't be able to build fabs fast enough (or raise the finance) to compete with LCD.

Sad really, but I don't fancy their chances.

[madshi]

Saw it at CES. It looked fantastic, but was in a dimly lit room so I suspect that the contrast is not great.
The reason why they've shown it in a dark room is the same reason why Sharp demoed their mega-contrast LCD in a dark room: Only that way you can see whether the black level is true black or just dark gray. In bright light you can't really see that.

However, the SED guys said themselves that for bright show rooms, LCD will beat SED. SED is not meant for ultra bright rooms but for normally lit home rooms.

[ahin4114]

Where exactly did I mix up something?

I don't think you did, I think Nick misworded. A display can indeed be progressive and scan line by line. The difference is it will scan every single line, not every other line in an odd even pattern as an interlaced display would.

[welwynnick]

I don't think you did, I think Nick misworded. A display can indeed be progressive and scan line by line. The difference is it will scan every single line, not every other line in an odd even pattern as an interlaced display would.Progressive can mean that a display scans line-by-line. That's what CRT PC monitors all do. Progressive doesn't mean simultaneous.

Nick

[Rino]

Sorry Nick, but that's wrong. SED screens are scanned line by line. This was clearly stated by the article in "AudioVision". This line by line scanning is done to remove the "sample-and-hold" motion smear effect that you get with sample and hold displays like LCD. The line by line scanning is also the reason why you see darker horizontal bars on photos of SED screens.

LCDs are also scanned line by line. It is not the scanning or lack thereof that introduces the 'hold' type motion blur, it is due to each frame being lit for the whole frame period. High motion frame rates reduce the problem but the limit in broadcast and consumer video is 60Hz, so some LCD TV solutions increase the motion rate to 75, 100 & 120Hz typically. There are aother solutions to the 'hold' type blur problem.

SEDs (and other FEDs) have used various methods to address and light the panel. The last SED I spent any time with (mid 2005) used PWM (pulse width modulation) similar to a plasma panel to render the grey scale. So, by its very nature it is not a distortion free display technology.

Although test production is well under way, there are plent of issues to be addressed in terms of performance and manufacture. Therefore it will be some time before prices are competetive with Plasma, let alone LCDs, both of which continue improve in performance terms and decrease in cost.

Like many others I'm looking forward to SED at my local retailer; but I'm not holding my breath.

Cheers.

David.

[madshi]

LCDs are also scanned line by line. It is not the scanning or lack thereof that introduces the 'hold' type motion blur, it is due to each frame being lit for the whole frame period. High motion frame rates reduce the problem but the limit in broadcast and consumer video is 60Hz, so some LCD TV solutions increase the motion rate to 75, 100 & 120Hz typically. There are aother solutions to the 'hold' type blur problem.

SEDs (and other FEDs) have used various methods to address and light the panel. The last SED I spent any time with (mid 2005) used PWM (pulse width modulation) similar to a plasma panel to render the grey scale. So, by its very nature it is not a distortion free display technology.

Although test production is well under way, there are plent of issues to be addressed in terms of performance and manufacture. Therefore it will be some time before prices are competetive with Plasma, let alone LCDs, both of which continue improve in performance terms and decrease in cost.

Like many others I'm looking forward to SED at my local retailer; but I'm not holding my breath.

Cheers.

David.
The article in the AudioVision clearly states that SED is "painted" line by line, one line at a time - somewhat comparable to how CRT is painted. Not all pixels are on at the same time. That's also the explanation for why you see dark bars in all the SED screenshot photos, according to the article. And I trust AudioVision here, because they usually get these things right.

[welwynnick]

The article in the AudioVision clearly states that SED is "painted" line by line, one line at a time - somewhat comparable to how CRT is painted. Not all pixels are on at the same time. That's also the explanation for why you see dark bars in all the SED screenshot photos, according to the article. And I trust AudioVision here, because they usually get these things right.Madshi, could you get a link or a transcription or something of that article. I'm obvously intrigued,but I couldnt' find it.

Rino, we'd like to hear more about your experiences with SED. BTW, do you know how plasma pixels are addressed and illuminated? Spatially, rther than temporily, that is?

Cheers, Nick

[madshi]

Nick, the article is only available in print, not online. But I can try to do a quick translation later today.

[madshi]

Ok, here comes the article, roughly translated by me:

ROLE MODEL: CRT

Toshiba wants to market the SED displays as the "Mercedes under the TVs". Production is beinning now. Chances are not that bad.

"If we continue this way", Keiichiro Mori warns, "then our products won't be worth that much very soon." He's talking about TV manufacturers that don't seem to have a lot of new ideas except undercutting each other's prices. "We won't join that", the Japan guy promises, and he's talking about the product he's responsible for at Toshiba: The SED displays.

While LCDs consist of lots of small light switches, which either block the backlight light or let it pass, and while Plasmas stimulates Phosphors to shine through gas discharge, SED screens work like CRTs. An eletron beam gets speeded up and stimulates phosphor at the front glass to shine. However, it's not a single beam which is running over the whole area, but it's one per pixel - or rather: There are two beams per subpixel (red, green, blue).

Toshiba man Mori has his own plans on how to market this technique: "You pay higher prices for a Mercedes or BMW, because you know they're worth it", he loves to explain to german interviewers.

But convincing people that SED will be the prime class displays will need quite some work. The motto is: better than CRT. Because CRT is still the quality level which neither Plasma nor LCD are reaching yet.

It's worth noting that 100Hz will make a return with SED displays. Because similarly to CRTs, the phosphor is activated with one pulse per pixture - not with multiple small flashes as Plasma does it. Because of that there will be no false contours with SED, also there will be no motion smear which we know from LCD. However, you can't come with 50Hz, especially not with a screen size of 140cm.

The PAL version is not done yet, but Toshiba is planning to go 100Hz, although 75Hz would be an option, too. The small numbers of SED displays being produced in January 2006 for the Japan market will have to live with NTSC typical 60Hz. Using this 60Hz (which is usual with many Plasma screens) for PAL, too, is no option for SED, because of the high quality approach SED is taking. 60Hz would result in some motion judder, which a critical eye would notice.

Contrast, a notorious weakness of LCDs (especially when watching from wide viewing angles) is where SED can shine: The panels are specified with a 100,000:1 contrast, and that only because "no measurement device shows anything when measuring black". Plasma displays are good in this area, too, but they suffer from the necessary deletion impulse which creates some image noise.

About colors: Toshiba technicians dare to show their displays right next to CRTs. Those CRTs are still reference displays in all TV studios, because TV colors are normed on CRT technology. From a first glance there was no difference between CRT and SED colors visible. However, geometry and uniformity were much better with SED - after all SED doesn't have to deform the electronic beam by more than 100 degrees.

Quality problems may happen through variations in production, because the eletron slot is only between 4 and 6 nanometers wide. But Toshiba claims to have it under control: The slot is created by a power impulse, not mechanical - this way the beam later fits exactly to the power impulse used in production.

Fears, that the comparison to german luxury cars would lead to a high price strategy, are discouraged by the Toshiba man: "I just wanted to say that we will be so good, that we don't have to sell for cheap".

[welwynnick]

Madshi, that must have taken some time. That's very much appreciated.

There are two aspects of SED that I am curious about.

1. Are the pixels illuminated with fixed-intensity/variable-duration pulses, or with continuous, variable intensity illumination?

2. Are the pixels addressed and illuminated simultaneously?

It seems that the article answers the first question - illumination is pulsed, if not like PDP and DLP, but still with variable duty cyce.

The second question doesn't appear to be addressed, though. I always assumed that SED would be like LCD and PDP, and would have what amounted to progressive, simultaneous illumination of pixels. The may be more reasons for SED to take that approach than plasma. Anyway, is SED is scanned (the original issue) then I don't see any evidence of it there.

What is your interpretation?

Cheers, Nick

[MacUK]

Hmm, maybe not worth waiting for the SED sets then, especially as i only want a 32" and they are going to be pricey by all accounts.

Balls.

[Chippy99]

Hmm, maybe not worth waiting for the SED sets then, especially as i only want a 32" and they are going to be pricey by all accounts.

Balls.

For me the fantastic thing about SED is the black levels. I have a 23" LCD in the bedroom and the black levels are so attrocious as to make it a complete joke. My Panny plasma is miles better, but its still not *quite* as good as CRT.

For watching movies and things like that, SED promises to be truly amazing at its ability to convincingly convey black and to show detail in the dark areas on screen.

Whether its 32" or 61", I think that would be a wonderful capability.

Chip

[madshi]

1. Are the pixels illuminated with fixed-intensity/variable-duration pulses, or with continuous, variable intensity illumination?

2. Are the pixels addressed and illuminated simultaneously?

It seems that the article answers the first question - illumination is pulsed, if not like PDP and DLP, but still with variable duty cyce.

The second question doesn't appear to be addressed, though. I always assumed that SED would be like LCD and PDP, and would have what amounted to progressive, simultaneous illumination of pixels. The may be more reasons for SED to take that approach than plasma. Anyway, is SED is scanned (the original issue) then I don't see any evidence of it there.

What is your interpretation?
I forgot to translate the text under the big photo in the article. Sorry about that. The photo shows a lady and four SED displays. There are dark horizontal bars (not totally black, but noticably darker than the rest of the displays) in every of the four screens. It looks a bit like this:

http://www.hometheater.co.il/images/articles/ces2006/day1/DSC00872.jpg

But in the article photo the bars are a lot darker than in this photo. Anyway, under that photo there is this text:

Unusual effect: Unlike LCD and Plasma displays, SED TVs show a dark zone in the image, when you take photos. That's because Images are exposed line by line - not all pixels are active at the same time. Because of that Europe will get 100Hz displays.

[jacking]

Ok, here comes the article, roughly translated by me:
Well done madshi. That must have taken some time. Thanks very much to everyone who's contributed to this thread which I started.
Jack

[MattDJ]

I hope it is soon when SEDs are released. I saw the demo at CES by Canon... and it was outstanding, especially when they showed a recorded spinning round, and the label was clear and absolutely no ghosting etc.

[kenji-san]

arent people worried about the fact that SED displays will reintroduce 60hz and 100hz displays to the market, and all the problem that follow because of this?
60hz has the terrible flicker, and i cant imagine how much flicker it would be on a 50" tv. 100hz judders, because it has to double the frames from a 50hz signal, or do some conversion from a 60hz signal. Hopefully this is not going to be as bad as this, i really hope. But when i read that they would do 60hz and 100hz screens first thing i thought was that this was a major step back.

[madshi]

arent people worried about the fact that SED displays will reintroduce 60hz and 100hz displays to the market, and all the problem that follow because of this?
60hz has the terrible flicker, and i cant imagine how much flicker it would be on a 50" tv. 100hz judders, because it has to double the frames from a 50hz signal, or do some conversion from a 60hz signal. Hopefully this is not going to be as bad as this, i really hope. But when i read that they would do 60hz and 100hz screens first thing i thought was that this was a major step back.
No, quite in contrast. I was honestly hoping they'd do this. Why? Because it's the only way to get rid of the last bit of motion smear.

And 100Hz doesn't flicker.

BTW, LCD manufacturers are looking into turning their backlights on/off 60 times or 120 times per second, too. Again this is meant to reduce motion smear. See Philips' Aptura lighting technology.

[Helterskelter]

As long as the refresh rate is higher than the persistence rate then no flicker will be visible.

eddie

[AVnut70]

Canon recently demo'd their latest SED screens - and they look like they'll destroy both plasma and LCD. Check it out here: http://www.behardware.com/articles/593-1/close-encounters-of-the-third-kind-sed.html

They're expected end of 2006/early 2007, at the same price range as plasmas. That's my PV500 replacement sorted, then.

I think it will still be susceptible to image retention though - no good if you use your 360 etc.

[geeWcee]

I think it will still be susceptible to image retention though...
..as bad as plasmas? I hope not.

[Jim_Fear]

..as bad as plasmas? I hope not.

Same technology in a sense, phosphor being ignited by electrons

[SimonMW]

Is anyone else developing LED backed displays?

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=33128

[hamster]

All the LCD panel makers are undoubtedly up to it. Plus the big guys are also working on OLED which should (probably) be manufacturable in an LCD fab. But OLED won't be commercial in sensible TV sizes before 2009 I suspect.

[tryingtimes]

arent people worried about the fact that SED displays will reintroduce 60hz and 100hz displays to the market, and all the problem that follow because of this?
60hz has the terrible flicker, and i cant imagine how much flicker it would be on a 50" tv. 100hz judders, because it has to double the frames from a 50hz signal, or do some conversion from a 60hz signal. Hopefully this is not going to be as bad as this, i really hope. But when i read that they would do 60hz and 100hz screens first thing i thought was that this was a major step back.
I would have thought that a 100Hz scanning TV wouldn't judder any more than a 50Hz non-scanning device - the information is changing at exactly the same rate.
It mentions that Europe will get 100Hz sets, so I wonder whether they'll release 60 or 120Hz sets in NTSC terretories.

[NicolasB]

Present-day 100Hz TVs judder not because they are 100Hz but because they make a complete balls-up of converting an interlaced signal to a progressive one. This won't be an issue on 720p material, or "film-mode" 1080i (I hope). And deinterlacing systems are improving (albeit slowly).