HD-DVD v Blu-Ray War - which format is winning

[RichardBoult]

Given that Sony have suggested the PS3 will come subsidised and bundled with media, which format is currently winning the war?

[Nic Rhodes]

Neither, we have day to day posturing from both sides but neither is dominant, nor are they expected to be delivered in the near term, certainly not in Europe.

[stuart-f]

Is this going to be another VHS/Betamax war where one will eventually die out, (the better one in that particular case - ex-Betamax owner). Or are we all going to need a Blu-Ray player an HD player and possibly SD player?

Does anyone know if the new machines will be backward compatible or is it too early too say?

[richjthorpe]

HD-DVD will be backwardly compatible but BluRay natively will not be meaning that they will have to put a DVD laser in the unit as well.

I think LG have already developed a HD-DVD/BluRay hybrid for the PC.

Richie.

[mjcairney]

I believe that Samsung have already announced that they will produce a universal machine.

Cheers,

Martin.

[Timbo21]

I wouldn't be surprised if the two formats run concurrently for some time, a bit like DVD-RAM & DVD+R/-R. Eventually one might get marginalised like DVD-RAM has somewhat.

[thanley]

Given previous wars, my money is on the porn industry deciding the dominant format.. :devil:

[Cable Monkey]

No format has won yet. Both have gone to pre-production meaning the development cash has been spent and will need recouping so both will reach the market. There is that much cash behind both, you will probably get a situation like DVD+ and DVD- RW where both have survived.

[Knyght_byte]

Given previous wars, my money is on the porn industry deciding the dominant format.. :devil:

haha deffo! :rotfl: :thumbsup: :devil:

[Knyght_byte]

the problem with VHS/Beta was at the time there was no way you would be able to afford doing a twin deck machine, most people could barely afford one or the other...lol

so you either used one or the other...

but more or less all DVD players (other than pointless dirt cheap crapola ones) will play both the DVD recording formats, so a winner isnt necessary....

and if both HD and BR can be used in one drive, then i think its fair to say both will probably survive.......most likely being used more for one thing over another (one might suit Data better, other might suit AV use better etc...mebbe their wont be a difference....who cares tbh, for those of us who relish better and better quality sound and vision its a bonus...heh, two formats should make it cheaper quicker ;-)

[gandley]

Is the market realy there for HD-DVD and blueray. Sure it is on these forums but i just dont see the general public embrassing it as much as DVD.

DVD could be partnerd with your exsisting TV and equipment and you got an increase in quality straight away.
to benefit from HiDef dvd you will need a suitable hi res display and if your serious thats a 1280X720 and no lower capable unit (afterall you want to see the benefit of most if not all the resolution on offer).

So the cost invloved will be prohibitive for alot of homes. there alot of poeple who pay for a £30 dvdplayer and are in heaven. I just dont see the rush for HD in the short term. As prices fall there will be an uptake but i dont think it will be anywhere near the speed of DVD.

[PJTX100]

Given previous wars, my money is on the porn industry deciding the dominant format.. :devil:

What a strange thing to say!

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1836266&postcount=15

;)

[Nic Rhodes]

I agree with Dustin, I think the market is small already and to divide it further is just nuts. Who has won over DVD A / SACD, another small interest format and now we have two dying formats.

[alan_t]

at the end of the day, would'nt hd dvd be cheaper then blue ray?

especially reading somewhere that sony will be selling the ps3 at a loss because the bluray drives cost so much.

[gandley]

$ony (or should i say the new microsoft) announed that the PS3 will hit a price between $300-$400, and that they will be taking a reasonable hit because of the Bluer drive (on top of the usual loss on first release consoles).

But i still dont see the masses jumping up to an all singing and all dancing HD display so that little johnny can play his PS3 in HD. More so if like most teenagers he will be camped out in his bedroom most of the time. of course there will always be some but the market this time is much reduced.

The failing of SACD and DVDA could be more inline with that many dont want or have the will to invest in the full surround experience, when they see 2 channel as sounding just fine (and see multi channel as a waste of time). it could be the same with HiDef DVD, too much investment for those who dont view it as a hobby as we do.

Again to enjoy mutichannel sound there were additional investment to consider and make, hence its failing badly

[Timbo21]

I agree with Gandley that a big part of the success of DVD was that the cost of the machines plummeted very quickly to the £30 level, and that you don't need a special TV. Let's face it that's not going to happen with HD.

T.

[Cable Monkey]

There is success, then there is $ucce$$! DVD has fallen into the former category and while popular, is not ringing the tills nearly enough for the interested parties. Lets see if High Definition can shake some more money out of our pockets!!!

[Knyght_byte]

what people are forgetting is that the upcoming formats are not just about higher definition, but about far more space available on the disc.......far as im aware there is no reason why they wont use HD-DVD/BR to release whole TV series on a single disc in DVD standard definition, imagine, whole Star Trek series on 2 or 3 discs at most...heh

and for backing up either your Sky+ box or your computers data files, either format is a significant advantage over DVD for the fact it holds 3 times as much as a double sided double layer DVD.....given how large HDD get nowadays backing up that much on to one disc is very useful.....

however whether initial recording machines will let you use SD recording (useful)or just offer crap quality modes in HD recording...(somewhat pointless) to get more space remains to be seen....if they want to make money they need to let you record in SD and HD......otherwise as people point out neither format could take off properly, especially with HDD PVR's and even TV's now.....all it needs is for hot-plug HDD to become a standard and bye bye HD-DVD/BluRay (altho HDD will still need increased bandwidth to use download libraries to buy stuff from)

ok, post-work pre-dinner/wine/WWE-Raw-recording rant/speech/pointless opinion over, time to go tease the SVS boys in subwoofer forum...heh :-)

[Quickbeam]

The failing of SACD and DVDA could be more inline with that many dont want or have the will to invest in the full surround experience, when they see 2 channel as sounding just fine (and see multi channel as a waste of time). it could be the same with HiDef DVD, too much investment for those who dont view it as a hobby as we do.

Or it could be because of:

a) lack of titles (in both SACD and DVD-A formats)
b) DVD-A media's incompatibility with 99% of DVD and CD players. At least Sony had the foresight to include a CD readable layer on SACD.
c) the lack of native DSD recordings for SACD. Sony is flogging a dead horse with DSD. Converting 24/96 PCM seems utterly pointless when a DVD-A supports native 24/96 PCM.
d) widespread consumer ignorance/disinterest over DVD-A, SACD, and surround sound in general.
e) lack of a compatible digital interconnect on affordable equipment.
f) the cost of the discs.
g) the cost of the players.

Now we come to HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Let's see if a pattern is starting to emerge.

They could fail because of:

a) lack of titles (in both HD-DVD and Blu-ray)
b) HD-DVD and Blu-ray's incompatibility with all DVD players - and with each other!
c) widespread consumer ignorance/disinterest over high definition video and audio.
d) the cost of the discs.
e) the cost of the players.
f) the cost of the TVs.
g) draconian copy protection methods.

Could the AV industry be heading towards a disaster of biblical proportions?

[gandley]

Hopefully things will work out because on a personal level im ready for HD now :smashin:

[Cable Monkey]

b) DVD-A media's incompatibility with 99% of DVD and CD players. At least Sony had the foresight to include a CD readable layer on SACD.

Not entirely correct because if I am correct a DD/DTS track is part of the DVD-A remit and has been from the start. In the case of SACD, the CD layer came later. Consequently every DVD-A I own can be played on a normal DVD player (reduced quality of course) while at least 1 of my SACD's cannot be played on a CD player.

[Nic Rhodes]

in fact many SACD are not hybrids.

[Quickbeam]

Not entirely correct because if I am correct a DD/DTS track is part of the DVD-A remit and has been from the start. In the case of SACD, the CD layer came later. Consequently every DVD-A I own can be played on a normal DVD player (reduced quality of course) while at least 1 of my SACD's cannot be played on a CD player.

Apologies - I actually meant only incompatible with CD players because there is no CD readable layer.

[Knyght_byte]

tbh the biggest problem with DVD-A/SACD was simply that they didnt advertise it enough and get enough big names in the music industry to support it as a dual release with a new album.....they went for normal DVD-V as its dirt cheap, most DVD-V are just stereo sound panned over 5 speakers like Creatives CMSS did in the early Audigy soundcards......
If they had gotten the word out on how it can make your listening experience more interesting/exciting it might have done better.....but they were aiming too high in the quality of the equipment department, which is fair enough in away, quality wise you need a stereo or surround setup costing a good few grand minimum to notice the quality difference properly, but they could still have flogged the surround sound part, some albums remixed to 5.1 sound fantastic!

oh well, i like listening to a lot of classical/jazz/bigband type stuff and lots of that is being released on DVD-A/SACD...heh

[rich sps]

My bet is HD-DVD will win IF any of them are sucessful. With it's far cheaper manufacturing costs. I belive it can use current machinary with a little adaption where as the Blu ray format need specialist machinary. Expensive to film distributers and us.
I recon the future of HD may be helped via downloads on to a hard drive. No format war and a HDMI output.

[mjcairney]

My bet is HD-DVD will win IF any of them are sucessful.

You don't take into account the power of PS3 - alright, it's going to be late hitting the market, but it will still be a very powerful ally for Blu-Ray.

Cheers,

Martin.

[Nic Rhodes]

Blue ray 2008? It will just be too late by then :(

Cost of ownership and speed to market I feel will be important. Not technical ability.

[gandley]

1st blueray title finished

Charlies angels: full throttle :eek:

Way to go $ony, with all the movies they can choose thats the best they can come up with.

[alan_t]

lol..sound like there scraping the barrel does'nt it.

[Knyght_byte]

its got consumer appeal tho, cexy girls, cartoon violence, music.....perfect launch title for the mass market.....

just not for us weirdos who like the films quality to match our components...heh ;-)

[rich sps]

You don't take into account the power of PS3 - alright, it's going to be late hitting the market, but it will still be a very powerful ally for Blu-Ray.

Cheers,

Martin.

Good point. It should be interesting if the 360 is popular, which format they go with. Probably HD-DVD as thats what Sony isn't using.

[MarkE19]

Blue ray 2008? It will just be too late by then :(
Perhaps it is already too late.
Apparently Opware corp have already demonstrated a capacity of 200GB on a new format called HVD (Holographic storage disk), with their R&D department racing to develop a 1 Terabyte disk :eek:
Another partner in the HVD Alliance, InPhase Technologies recently reported something even more alarming. In a statement made recently they said "A 125GB storage card would cost the end user considerably less than $10 USD"
More details about HVD Here (http://www.inphase-technologies.com/).

So it looks like HD-DVD & Blu-ray could be out of date even before they have reached the market.

Mark.

[Nic Rhodes]

yes I had seen that, depressing for the Japs isn't it. The chinese have also developed three rival HD formats, they managed to unify them in double quick time. They all run on red laser but would be compatible with blue technologies. It seems the only people who can't see the common sense and the vital things they NEED todo to make this work are the Japanese HD DVD / Blueray camps :( tbh I am pretty despondant about all this....