Tonearms

[scroggie]

I have just sold my Gyrodeck, that I have owned for over ten years, and I am going to upgrade to an Orbe. I have used an SME V tonearm for the last 12 years and although I have found this to be a really world class arm, particularly the bass response, tracking and detail, it is is my opinion a bit lacking in soul.

I have read a lot of reviews of the Origin Live (OL) arms and the Michell TecnoArm and would appreciate any feedback from owners, who have used the SME V and either the Origin Live or Michell arms on their decks. My personal experience has been that you can listen to arms in the dealers showrooms but it is only when you have used the arms at home for a few days before you can really judge the characteritics of an arm fully. Also, it is very difficult these days to get suppliers/dealers to lend you arms to try at home, and so any views you have would help. The maximum I am prepared to pay is around £1500 and so this is in the OL Illustrious territory. However, views on the TecnoArm and the OL Silver and Encounter would be most welcome, as some of the reviews indicate that nowadays you do not have to pay a fortune to get a top class arm.

Thanks

Steve

[karkus30]

I own the encounter Tonearm, which is currently on an old Roksan Xerxes, fitted with an Ortofon Jubilee Cart. I think that this is a fantastic combination and TBH I cant say I have heard better. The Orbe is a great sounding deck and the OL encounter is probably as good as the SME V, but has a little more life. The only fly in the ointment might be reliability. I have never had a problem with my arm, but I do know one guy who had problems with the internal cabling, it was sorted out by OL, but it's worth making you aware. The SME is bombproof so reliability should never be an issue.

[scroggie]

Thanks Karkus,

The more I hear about the OL arms the more I am inclined to listen to the Encouter/Illustrious at a dealers. Wasn't aware of the reliability issue, so thanks for metioning this. You are right the SME's are bulletproof.

[karkus30]

Originally Posted by scroggie

Thanks Karkus,

The more I hear about the OL arms the more I am inclined to listen to the Encouter/Illustrious at a dealers. Wasn't aware of the reliability issue, so thanks for metioning this. You are right the SME's are bulletproof.

Bought mine s/h from Ebay without any demo (TBH it's very difficult to demo arms) cost me about £400 it was used once to test out an Oracle 5, before it was decided that the Oracle could handle the illustrious and show sufficient improvement, so it was all boxed up and the fittings were still in their wrappings (luvly). I bought the cart direct from a guy in Germany, dont know if he still does this, but my cart cost me around £300, brand new and guaranteed ! ho ho I love a bargain. Bit shaky mounting the cart mind

[Londondecca]

What is the rest of your system.

I wonder if spending 1500 quid on a new arm will give you value for money. Whilst I think arms play an important role, I am not sure if they play a significant role in the context of a full system

[scroggie]

The system will be a Michell Orbe front end (arm and cartridge still to be decided), retaining my existing Kinshaw phono stage and Rothwell passive pre-amp and valve amplifier, and the speakers have again yet to be decided. I heard a very nice pair of audiovectors a while back - there were around £1000.

[alexs2]

Originally Posted by scroggie

The system will be a Michell Orbe front end (arm and cartridge still to be decided), retaining my existing Kinshaw phono stage and Rothwell passive pre-amp and valve amplifier, and the speakers have again yet to be decided. I heard a very nice pair of audiovectors a while back - there were around £1000.

Sounds as if you have a lot of auditioning ahead of you....the arm/cartridge/speaker combinations that you could come up with are enormous,and the potential for changing the sound significantly is also very large.

You have an excellent front-end in the Orbe,and my own experience of the OL arms is that they are all superbly well made,but you should also have a look at some of the Rega arms,rebuilt by OL,which in price terms are almost a bargain.

I can understand what you mean about soul in a system,having just bought/refurbished and upgraded a TT for mine,plus all the looking around for a good phono stage,and now looking around for a good(perhaps used)MC to upgrade from a Supex....good luck!

Originally Posted by alexs2

Sounds as if you have a lot of auditioning ahead of you....the arm/cartridge/speaker combinations that you could come up with are enormous,and the potential for changing the sound significantly is also very large.

You have an excellent front-end in the Orbe,and my own experience of the OL arms is that they are all superbly well made,but you should also have a look at some of the Rega arms,rebuilt by OL,which in price terms are almost a bargain.

I can understand what you mean about soul in a system,having just bought/refurbished and upgraded a TT for mine,plus all the looking around for a good phono stage,and now looking around for a good(perhaps used)MC to upgrade from a Supex....good luck!

Don't rule out the Linn Ekos. It doesn't have to be on an LP12 or have a Linn cartridge fitted.

[alexs2]

Originally Posted by nikyzf

Don't rule out the Linn Ekos. It doesn't have to be on an LP12 or have a Linn cartridge fitted.

True,although Ekos prices tend to be rather high for the assumed quality of the arm currently,and many consider the OL equivalent to be superior,but it would need to be tried if at all possible.

[Paul Williams]

Originally Posted by nikyzf

Don't rule out the Linn Ekos. It doesn't have to be on an LP12 or have a Linn cartridge fitted.

Very careful audition for an Orbe/Ekos combination, having lived with Linn TT's for over twenty years (have a friend with an Orbe & uses an SME 300 as he likes it better than the V) I'd say these are poles apart in the way they present music! The Ekos is more neutral than the Ittok, but not by much.

I'm always a bit concerned when people say they're trying to get the soul or emotion out of an LP, it usually means it isn't there. I've gone from a Linn, to an SME TT and without question its a streets ahead of anything I've ever listened to. The downside is that there is no hiding a crap record. One of my all time favourite LP's tracks I can now hear the 'dropins' where they've taken bits of other sessions for guitar solo's and so on. In one section nine in 30 seconds. This was always the strength of the likes of Linn, to pass over these LP weaknesses and merge them into a cohesive whole. On the plus side other LP's have gone from OK to magnificent with real depth of emotion & presence that couldn't be found before. Which is better, well I did buy the SME and don't miss the Linn, which is right in their presentation, both. Which turntable manufacturer treads the best line between the 2 modes, Nottingham Analogue. Which is the best arm I've ever heard on any TT, Graham Engineering. I've heard the 2.1, told the 2.2 is way better & one day I'm going to try and listen to a Phantom on SME & Notts TT's.

http://www.graham-engineering.com/db...OM-FINAL31.jpg

End option, you will have to spend a lot of time in a good analogue dealers dem room and sorry to all those using an Orbe/Ekos combination, if its wonderful, let us know. What would I try for an arm, well I doubt that a 2nd hand Graham (2.1) will turn-up but I I'd try and find one, even if you have to drive 100's of mile to audition it at a dealer. For a safer bet Rega 900.

[analogueaddict]

Hi Steve,

with some judicious spending, £1,500 will get you a significant upgrade with that T/T. The Orbe has always been a solid T/T, though it is starting to look rather expensive now in comparison with some of the latest turntables which have come along, but I think you can do much better than either the Ol Encounter or the SME V.

There is no doubt in my mind, the OL Encounter is a signifcant step up from the SME V, which I've always found dull and lifeless in almost any turntable, and as good as the OL arms are, they're traditional gimbal bearing arms, which to me are no match for a first rate unipivot arm. My choice right now would be either a Hadcock Cryo arm at around £800, or find myself a used Graham 1.5 or preferably a 2.0. With the new Graham B44 coming into the country, you can find 2.0 for around £1,200 - £1,500. I have one of these arms, and they are stunning, I would happily call them the finest tonearm in the World if it was not for the existence of the 2.2, the B44 and the new Basis Vector MK. 3 arm.

From a cartridge point of view, with an arm this good, the sky is the limit, but for something special at a sensible price a Benz Glider L2 makes an excellent used buy at between £350 and £450, whilst new a Lyra Argo is outstanding at £800, but it depends how far you want to go.

I hope this helps, if you have any further questions then please do not hesitate to ask.

Best wishes,

Dave

[Nic Rhodes]

rewire the SME V and remove the yoke, it starts to get a life then!!

I like unipivots, and have used them for 17 years now...

[scroggie]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the feedback. I have never heard a unipivot and have only used Rega based/SME arms before. I had a look at the Graham engineering website and the Phantom (B44) looks a great arm. The hadcock I had never heard of before and it is nice to see that this is a uk made product. I definitely want the Michel Orbe, as my Gyro gave such reliable results for over 14 years, but I am seriously going to consider the Graham and Hadcock arms. I will check with the Michell dealers in my part of the contry and find out if they also stock the Hadcock or Graham arms and see if they will demo them for me.

How do you find the unipivots, only I read that they are not as easy to set-up and use as a twin pivot design?

Thanks again for the reply.

Steve

[Thekop]

It's a shame the Kuzma Stogi and Stogi reference tonearms aren't around no more. The stogi sounded lovely on my old Voyd Turntable - with Van Den Hul MC1 Cartridge. It was more than a match to the Linn Ittok and Ekos.

[Londondecca]

Or a Zeta arm, which reminds me I must get mine rewired and sell it