RELQ50

[Ramius]

How are you with a screw-driver?
An alternative is DIY. For £400 you can easily build a sub which would have the performance of commercially available subs costing thousands.

I can't believe there aren't more home cinema fanatics doing this here in the UK. If you want quality bass it is the way to go. IMO.

Cheers.

I auditioned a REL Strata III just yesterday (I want to buy the Q100E, but they didn't have it for auditioning), and it makes a world of difference !

Ramius, I agree that you can DIY a sub easily, but saying that you get the same performance as the comercial ones......
Well, REL have been making Subs for more than 10 Years, and they still haven't got it all figured out. If you're only looking for power, I agree. But a good sub blends into your system, being discrete and showing it's power when needed.

It's a choice, but I heard lots of subs, and even good speaker brands still can't make a sub correctly.

Regards

Rui

------------------
An adult is just a kid with expensive toys.

Rui

What ?!!!! I really don't believe that you can build a subwoofer with such a well matched driver/amp combo, sophisticated filtering and overload protection circuitry, optimally designed enclosure (one which takes hours of experimention and R&D), quality connection components, professional finish and 3 years world wide warranty for £400.
IMO if you want quality bass, get one built by an expert subwoofer manufacturer.
I am not convinced that you could build an audiophile product with just the ability to use a screwdriver. A subwoofer is more than just a big speaker in a box.

[Ramius]

I've lurked & learnt loads over at the Home Theatre Forum, (I still know very little). Have a look at the DIY Advanced section. http://www.hometheaterforum.com/


This is the driver I used- http://www.adireaudio.com/cd/shiva.htm
Download the white paper. Have a look at the Shiva links.

Have a look at the various application plans Adire provide- http://www.adireaudio.com/Tech%20Papers/shiva_apps.htm
I made the 142.5 litre EBS enclosure.

This company provides power- http://www.bkelec.com/
look in the 'modules hybrids section.
(Funnily enough these guys supply REL)

Download WinISD. (WinISD is freeware speaker designing software) http://www.linearteam.org/winisd.html
Have a play.

(I just copied plans to make mine. Not confident to design my own yet).

I'm off home, would like to continue discussion tomorrow.

Cheers

Anyone got one of these and if so what are they like.

I am considering getting one but I am open to alternatives for around £400.

Thanks.
Mike.

I don't think my DIY skills are quite up to
the job of building my own.

I think I'll just buy one from a shop!

Thanks anyway.

[Ramius]

Mike, Mad Max, HC Dude,
Did you check out any of the links?

I thought you might like some more info. I didn't have time last night.

A sub that ACCURATELY reproduces ALL bass frequencies will sound very good.

These are the performance specs for my Adire Shiva 142.5 litre EBS (Extended Bass Shelf) enclosure. (From their site http://www.adireaudio.com/)

Box Volume 142.5 litres
Fb 18.1 Hz
Vent 4" Flared, 17.2" long
Anechoic F3 17.8 Hz
Anechoic F8 14.5 Hz
Anechoic >105 dB SPL 16.3 Hz
In Room F3 16.3 Hz
In Room F8 13.7 Hz
In Room >105 dB SPL 13.7 Hz

Box volume. The net internal volume, without any stuffing. Stuffed boxes can be from 10% to 25% smaller, based upon bandwidth of the signal and the stuffing density.

· Fb, the resonant frequency of the system. This is the nominal tuning frequency of the enclosure.

· Anechoic F3, the half power point of the system, in full space, referenced to the peak output.

· Anechoic F8, the apparent half volume point of the system, in full space, referenced to the peak output.

· Anechoic >105 dB SPL, the frequency above which the system is capable of greater than 105 dB SPL in full space.

· In Room F3, the predicted half-power point of the system, referenced to the peak output, when corner loaded in a 50m 3 room (4m x 5.5m by 2.3m).

· In Room F8, the predicted apparent half volume point of the system, referenced to the peak output, when corner loaded in a 50m 3 room (4m x 5.5m by 2.3m).

· In Room > 105 dB SPL, the frequency above which the system is capable of greater than 105 dB SPL, when corner loaded in a 50m 3 room (4m x 5.5m by 2.3m).

I think you'll agree those specs are impressive and a lot more detailed compared to commercial sub manufacturers info.

This is the approximate cost-

Plans- free, down-loaded from AdireAudio.
AdireAudio Shiva driver including shipping from America and import tax, £140.
300 Watt mono amp & sub-bass filter from BK Electronics (these guys make the amps & electronics for REL, very similar design, same components) & delivery £165.
4" flared port (from a car audio shop) £10.
MDF 1.9 mm, 8'x 4' from Arnold Laver £15.
Panels cut by local joiner/carpenter £40.
Auto spay paint (not essential. I wanted a black high gloss finish) £50.
Misc (screws, glue, silicon, sandpaper etc) £20.
Total about £460.

Tools- cordless drill (used as power screwdriver), corded drill, orbital sander.
If you can put together a flatpack MFI wardrobe you can make a braced box out of MDF .
Basic construction instructions-
Screw and glue the box together.
Seal with silicone (has to be airtight)
Sand flat and smooth.
Prime & paint (or laminate).

One last point. Why do many many home cimema enthusiasts in the States, who have spent thousands of dollars on equipment and aren't short of a buck or two, have an 800 dollar DIY sub in their set up???

There is an abosulte ton of info on the net.
Any questions though, please ask.

Cheers.

Being a DIY enthusiast I would be interested in DIY'ing a sub. However I am still a little unsure of if this could rival a ready bought sub.

Remember 5 or 6 years ago when everybody was building their own computers from individual components? How many people build their own machines now when economies of scale mean Gateway, Dell etc can flog you a much better machine for less money?

Does the same not apply to subs? I would be suprised if you could build a sub to rival say a Rel for less money when Rel buy in their components by the thousand and not individually. Economies of scale must dictate that the manafacture gets massive discounts, which with competition between brands will get passed on to the consumer.

[simonsez]

Kevin, although Rel makes some of the best subs...there are better subs out there....for less money! HSU, and SVS are two companies that delivers some of the newest and best performing subs in the market today.
I think you will agree that there is much more built into the price of a subwoofer that just the parts. Marketing,R&D,Brand Name,Freight,Profit Margin are all things that go into the price of any product.
If you use a time tested design, and purchase commonly accessible parts there is no reason why you could not produce a sub that can rival some of the best. Notice I did say rival, you may get lucky and build a sub that can beat a Rel Strata,Q100 or whatever, but unless you are a gifted speaker designer it would be pure luck.
If you go to this website: www.partsexpress.com They have a subwoofer kit called the Titanic. You can purchase the cabinent,250W amp, and driver for less than $500 all you have to do is assemble it. If you look at the reviews at the AVS forum....this is one impressive subwoofer.
Of course it is much easier to purchase a sub from a hifi store, but if you enjoy DIY, you can make a truly great subwoofer on your own. All I can say is try it.....you may suprise yourself, and isnt that what makes life exciting....the little suprises?

[General Skanky]

Hello Mike. I've got a REL Q Bass, not quite a Q50, but the 40 watt version.
DO NOT be fooled by any other sub in this category. My REL really is a raging torrent of furious bass at 'only' 40 watts. It is controlled, tuneful, accurate, flexible, mental, fun, crazy....... You get the idea.
I wouldn't be without it. The Q50 can only improve on what I already know know to be the dog's b******s at bass in my room, 11' x 12'.
Yes there may be other subs around that can compete, but REL 'IS' the standard to beat.
Get one, you'll be gobsmacked at what that little beastie will do. Hang onto your pants mate, they'll be flapping in the wind!
All the best, enjoy whatever you buy.

The General.

------------------
Douch!!......Wot's da madder, da CIA got you pushing too many penzils?

Work: www.hughes-tv.co.uk

[MonkeyBoy]

Mike

Where do you live because if you live near me you may be able to buy my REL Q50 off me.

They take a bit of setting up but when you get it right you will have the windows rattling.

I live in Abingdon near Oxford so you would need to pick it up.

It’s in good nick its just I have not got much room now.

If you are interested E-Mail me at steve.hall@freeuk.com

Steve


[This message has been edited by MonkeyBoy (edited 05-11-2000).]

[Ramius]

Kevin.
Build one now!!!
You will be amazed. Have a good read of the links I posted. The AdireAudio site is very informative. I used their Shiva driver as it's very popular in America (and various other places around the world). The company gives excellent technical support.
There seems to be a DIY sub craze going on in the States. Just take a quick look at their Home Cinema (Theatre) Forums, you'll always find a DIY section. You'll also notice that all the serious enthusiasts always have a DIY sub and more and more people are going down that route.
I think eventually the UK will catch on and realise the performance that DIY delivers.

Cheers.

My system has excellent front speakers that go down pretty low, but as far as subwoofer goes I use a 15" PA speaker box with the tweeter disconnected. It's powered by an old toshiba "hifi" amp at the bottom of my equipment rack. It's huge, loud and impressive but its real problem is that the bass isn't "taut" if you know what I mean. The mass of the driver is so high that it is unresponsive. The only "real" sub I've heard was a REL, that little cube one, and it didn't produce such an "oomphy" sound as my setup but it was far more responsive.

Sorry for my ignorance in these areas! I lack the money to buy a new sub, but I'd just like to point out that whatever I did, buying new of DIY, I recommend not going for huge drivers like mine!

Thanks for the offer MonkeyBoy, but I live
on the Isle of Sheppey in Kent. Anything north of London is like a foreign trip for me :-)

I have another question about sub's. Is there a general rule of thumb about the power of a sub in relation to room size.

My room is 24x12, so will the RELQ50 be powerful enough?

Thanks.
Mike.

[MonkeyBoy]

The best price, power and quality is the REL Q100E have a look at it on the test bench.

Steve


------------------
It’s Game Over Man, Game Over !!!