My faith in DLP has been badly shaken...

[Caimbeul]

In John Lewis this morning and detoured past their TV section and saw The Sagem HD-D45 running its usual HD demo off of PC and next to it was Panasonics 37" PV500 Vierra also running HD (pre-recorded onto Hard-Disk on a DVD/HD Recorder).

Now when I first viewed the Sagem I was blown away at the clarity and detail - a completley different league than any non HD TV...

Looking at the Panny next to the Sagem was like having this experience all over again! The Panasonic was in an entirely different league for Picture claruty, sharpness, blacks, contrast, you name it! - I dont think any amount of tweaking on the Sagem would help it catch up. DLP works for me as I have heard nowt but good things (well mostly ) no burn-in vs Plasma is the decider for me and even a few mag reviews I have read for various sets have even gone as far as saying that they offer equal if not better picture in some cases than high end Plasma's. I cant have Plasma as I know I will ruin it in no time and have become fond of the whole "DLP Scene" so to speak. I need Someone to show me the light, I have strayed from the path...

...I keep thinking of those pics of Razor and Kablemans setups and the pic quality looked great (so did everyone elses but they were the 2 easiest names to remember! )

HHHEEEEEELLLLLLP!

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Caimbeul

I need Someone to show me the light, I have strayed from the path...

...I keep thinking of those pics of Razor and Kablemans setups and the pic quality looked great (so did everyone elses but they were the 2 easiest names to remember! )

HHHEEEEEELLLLLLP!

Say 10 hail marys every day or considering plasma over DLP

Caimbeul

First off you are comapiring a 37' to a 45'. 45' approx twice the screen size.
Secondly have you not tried looking at the samsung 50' or an optoma set?

As you like our pics, try and demo our sets and compare if possible.

With HD it is hard to tell how good a set is as there is so many varibles. ie HD type (WMV HD, DIVX HD etc..) HD quality can vary so much. Stick to SD as you are familiar with this format with the same connection and player.
Or use the same demo on a single pc as, graphics cards, codecs, media players all effect the end result.

It is hard to compare two different sources (ie, two different pc setups or a pc vs a dvd player) with the same material, yet alone different material.

Shops also like to split the feed up by using as many outputs of a dvd player as possible. One connection may be component and the other dvi/hdmi. The dvi/hdmi will look better than component.

I would think about the samsung 50' set instead of the sagem as it doesnt have the frosted screen which has caused a few members to return their sets.
The only bad mark against the samsung is some people dont like the styling. Which has nothing to do with picture quality.

Also what possesed you to look at a 37' screen. A 50' screen is nearly twice the size of a 37' (82%). To really appreciate full HD (high bitrate) 37' is recomended as a minimum with larger screens benifiting from the extra detail. Therefore larger is better

[KableMan]

Caimbeul, razor

All I can is that I had a similar wavering feeling when I saw the 50" pioneer next to the samsung initially as at a distance it definitely looked more CRT like than the sammy with a dodgy analogue feed in store and I saw some pretty dreadful setups in all the highstreet stores so I really started to question DLP. But everything I read backed up DLP as being a plasma killer especially with HD and in the US where HD is widely available DLP is the best seller and the Samsung just kept on winning awards - but the sagem looked so good and the samsung didn't - but this was down it being the only TV, at the time, showing HD in store.

So it took me a while to make up my mind but now that I have the samsung I am regularly blown away by its jaw dropping picture quality on all sources and even on the worst digital feed possible the picture is amazingly good - 10 times better than I saw in Comet et al. I've stood looking at the pioneer since and its not a scratch on the samsung IMHO. However, with a good digital cable source (oxymoron?) via good old RGB SCART, or with a decent DVD played with my samsung HD850 via component or HDMI, or with my PC playing HD (Divx or WMV) via DVI->HDMI the picture is quite simply breath-taking and I can truly say that its light years away from any picture I've ever seen in store - including the sagem and pioneer. I watched layer cake tonight and certain scenes, with close ups on faces, it looked nearly HD in quality!!

So I can now blissfully wander through John Lewis on a saturday, past all the LCD's, Plasmas, and the Sagem with or without HD playing and I can stop and stare or people watch for a while as unsuspecting punters are sold £4K's worth of plasma and I feel, I'll be honest, I feel smug totally happy and at ease with the best buying decision i've ever made! safe in the knowledge that my gorgeous stylish TV literally kicks ass!!

Infact since I've owned it not a single visitor to my home (male or female) has left not desperately wanting to own one and even those poor unfortunates who've just forked out for an expensive TV (many being suckered into a "cheap" plasma) start discussing ways to return it or justify to their other half how or why they need one.

Quite simply DLP rocks in general and the Samsung in particular is the dog's nads (and from what i've seen of razor's optoma so does it and at 65" too ) and I'll take some convincing to believe anything can touch this technology currently.

So in short don't stray over to the dark side - follow razor's excellent advice and get a demo - but afterwards buy a DLP (no bias at all )

Cheers
KableMan

[Caimbeul]

Razor - Kableman

Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,

Sigh, that puts my mind at rest...thanks! the dark side is indeed strong but have learnt my lesson

I have yet to see anywhere demoing the SP50 with anything other than DVD (which did look excelent BTW - with Spiderman 2) and as I am not yet in the position to buy one yet (am considering 46 or 50" L6 range but awaiting more user reviews and pics) so feel a little guilty walking into a store making them go through a load of hassle to demo the kit for me only to say thanks and walk out. I'm litterally badgering my solicitor to hurry along so I can move and buy my shinny new TV. Unfortunatley I dont think they realise the emotional trauma they are inflicting upon me by taking their time!

I have just bought my DVD HD850 in prearation for demoing and eventually for the TV and tested that on my ageing Sony CRT and quality was great via scart...Kableman, Have you tried burning a HD clip (WMV or DivX) to disc and playing back through your 850? - In theory these formats are supported by the player with the DivX support being updatable for the sammy...? On second thought, maybe the high bit rate isnt supported by the player will check the manual.

Thanks again for the advise guys!

[Razor]

Caimbeul

The hail mary's have saved you...lol

Dont feel embarresed about demoing, when the time comes to buy the set go out and spend as much time as possible bugging the sales assistant. Demoing is so important. I spent many hours at Optoma HQ messing around with the RD65 & RD50. If the sales assistant doesn't like it go else where.

I dont think the Samsung 850 does WMV HD or Divx HD. To play these formats you will need a pc or WMV HD/divx HD compatible dvd player. I beleive that Kiss do such a player as does linkplayer.

http://www.iodata.com/usa/products/p...=AVLP2%2FDVDLA

Upscaling SD to a HD resolution is totally different to an actual player that can play back a HD format. THe HD format is far superior to an upscalled picture. The upscalled player gets a 480/586 picture and scales it up to 720/1080. This isn't required for these sets as they already scale the image from a normal dvd player to display on a 1280x720 screen.
HD players output a true 720 or 1080 resolution picture, as there is more information (ie lines) the picture is far superior. The upscalling gueses the extra lines needed and displays a SD picture on HD resolution.
Basically you cant put back in what isn't there in the begining.

Your best bet is a pc with a DVI connection. The results are very good and you can always update your codecs/media players to improve the pic quality. Also when Blue ray and HD-DVD arrives there will be combi drives that support both formats, stick this in your pc and all formats are covered.


Kableman

Thanks for the kind words.

I too have the same with vistors to my house, all of them want an RD65 but can't afford it or fit it in their house Silly people. Loans and furniture removal is all they need.

[NicolasB]

Originally Posted by Caimbeul

Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary!,Hail Mary

Well that's no use. The whole prayer goes:

Hail Mary,
Full of grace,
The Lord is with thee;
Blessed art thou among women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners,
Now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

You have to repeat the whole thing 10 times. Out loud.

[Caimbeul]

I thought it was:
Hail Hi-Def,
Full of Pixels,
The resolution is with thee;
Blessed art thou among televisions,
And blessed is the fruit of thy connections, HDMI.
Holy Hi-Def,
Mother of Vision,
Pray for us SD users,
Now and at the hour of our upgrade.
Amen.

(DISCLAIMER: apologies in advance to any religious people here, this is not meant as an insult in any way, mearly a bit of jovial creativity. Please do not shout blasphemy as this is an original work and any similarities are merely co-incidental. )

[Caimbeul]

oh and thanks Razor, I think I may just do that I'm particularly interested in demoing the SP46L6 Vs the SP50L7 as some of the feedback on the forum is pointing towards the Tosh being better for pic quality - but time and a demo will tell.

After posting about the dixv/amv thing, I thought Naaa EVERYONE wouldbe doing it if it could, Silly me!

[neil c]

I heard that any device that is DivX compatible can potentially be updated to play HD DivX files. The 850 and 950 won't playback WMVHD or DixV HD at present.

[rudy]

Burn-in Hell!

Go for the Panasonic mate. Burn-in is avoidable as long as you run it in properly..Mind you i like the latest sagem; does'nt have the 'glittery' whites

[dunsters]

Kableman - I too have hit this seam of gooey amazement from visitors who have purred over the TV so much that even my disinterested wife has started to feel better about all the money I spent and is now actually doing her own demos of the TV and Sky+ to her coffee set and even tried to convert her own parents! Now there's progress!

Cheers

[Caimbeul]

Originally Posted by rudy

Burn-in Hell!

Go for the Panasonic mate. Burn-in is avoidable as long as you run it in properly..Mind you i like the latest sagem; does'nt have the 'glittery' whites

But playing 3hr endurance races on GT4 isnt going to be healthy and prolonged viewing of MTV (as an example) cant be good too! the reason I dont want plasma is because of the amount of Gaming I do. I dont fancy sitting down to watch TV or a Movie and seeing a faint spedomiter in the corner or a life guage in the other! but thanks...I have been swayed back from the dark side

[neilmcl]

Not wanting to dissuade you from a DLP purchase but my alternative if I didn't get the SP46L6 or don't get on with it was to look at the new Samsung LE40R51B 40" LCD which is now selling for around £1600. Should be in the shops shortly.

[kourosh]

dlp dont suffer from screen burns you are more likely to get screen burns of plasma's

[Blondie]

DLP's a far more user friendly then plasmas (unless it's LG) for me they have a better picture with no screen burn buy a plasma and watch as much Sky sports as me and you will see a lovely burn mark after only a few hundred hours of viewing
i realised the potential of DLP 2 years ago and since then it has been growing, with greater picture quality, larger screens, thinner screens and to top it off they are a lot cheaper. razor 65" of movie magic for £4k, whats a 65" plasma well the LG retails for about £8k on last inspection LG 8 Bloody grand
best thing to do is go into a decent store (not Currys) and demo some discs with a plasma and DLP set, see if you can spot a difference worth paying extra thousands for